Fuel Injection System Musings

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, Motorcraft WPT-1091 is the 6 cavity MAF connector. This will allow either the XL3F or the F5OF to be used, just parallel the IAT sensor leads so either can be used, or just don't use the one in the MAF.

Bill - That's excellent info. Thanks.

But, doing a bit of research I found this:

• Motorcraft @ Amazon for $38

• Michigan Motorsports @ Amazon for $13.

And here are pics from those adverts. Note that the Motorcraft has 4 stars and the Motorsports has 4 1/2 stars. You see any reason not to go with the Motorsports?

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - That's excellent info. Thanks.

But, doing a bit of research I found this:

• Motorcraft @ Amazon for $38

• Michigan Motorsports @ Amazon for $13.

And here are pics from those adverts. Note that the Motorcraft has 4 stars and the Motorsports has 4 1/2 stars. You see any reason not to go with the Motorsports?

I've had the book on the left for some time, but was just re-reading it in light of the work I'm doing on Big Blue. In it I found a recommendation to get the book on the right if you have a MAF system, so I just ordered it.

One of the reviews says the book is "Ford-centric". Another says "This is only really helpful for late 90s- early 20s engines." Sounds like my kind of book.

[Rusty_S85]

Rusty, the Holley Terminator, does it provide transmission control functions? I ask for two reasons, Rembrandt is planning on a 4R70 or 75W which is computer controlled and I have an E4OD in Darth.

With the EEC-V systems the computer can be tuned using the correct software and hardware.

There are two options for Ford EFI that is plug and play for the 302, 351w or 460. There is the Terminator X and the Terminator X Max. Below is the options.

* Includes EV1 Injector harness, for commonly found injectors on most stock ford engines

*Foxbody specific kits contain an ECU mounting bracket - TFI ignition adapter - a foxbody specific engine main harness, as well as MAT and CTS sensors. These kits also include application specific installation instructions to help you quickly and accurately convert your 5.0 powered Foxbody to Terminator X EFI

* Ford 4R70W transmission control harness (Terminator X Max Only)

*Genuine Bosch LSU 4.9 wide band control

* On-board Diagnositc LEDs for ECU Power, Engine Run, Wideband Status, TPS calibration, Crank signal, Cam signal.

*Built in 1bar MAP sensor, vacuum hose adapters included or for boosted applications you can disable the internal map sensor and utilize an external map sensor, the harness comes with the connector terminated

* Plug and play ignition capability with Dual Snc and Hyperspark distributors, adapter 558-323 required for hyperspark distributors

*4 inputs - 12V, Ground, 5V, and Frequency, for things such as additional pressure sensors, or activation triggers for nitrous activation or a transbrake. Fuel and oil pressure inputs are pre terminated

*4 outputs - Ground, PWM for accessories such as fans boost control nitrous control IAC kit and more

*Boost Control Boost vs Time, Boost vs Gear, Boost vs RPM, Boost vs Speed, Boost safeties

*Nitrous control

*Advanced Tables

*Integrated data logging

*free EFI software

Some models they have are the foxbody 5.0 MPFI harness with the 92-97 4R70W transmission harness part #550-943F for $1,630.95, a Universal MPFI harness with the 92-97 4R70W transmission harness part #550-943 for $1,462.95, a Ford MPFI kit with 98+ 4R70W transmission control.

I do not see a listing for one with the E4OD transmission control but they do have them for people transplanting 4L60/4L80 GM transmissions how ever.

~Update~

I looked further down for the Terminator X Max it does list E4OD as a transmission control option.

https://www.holley.com/brands/holley_efi/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_x/terminator_x_and_x_max_ford_kits/terminator_x_max_ford_kits/page=2

I know its pricy but around here you cant find anyone that can dyno tune these obsolete systems if its older than 1995 they just dont have the hardware anymore. Same with carbs no one local or with in 200 miles of me will dyno tune a carb they all went to late model EFI or aftermarket EFI.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - That's excellent info. Thanks.

But, doing a bit of research I found this:

• Motorcraft @ Amazon for $38

• Michigan Motorsports @ Amazon for $13.

And here are pics from those adverts. Note that the Motorcraft has 4 stars and the Motorsports has 4 1/2 stars. You see any reason not to go with the Motorsports?

Probably not, only difference might be where it's made, and there's no longer a guarantee the Motorcraft one isn't made there too. I guess I might want to get one in case I find another YC2F unit (this one has to go back on the E250).

[Gary Lewis]

Probably not, only difference might be where it's made, and there's no longer a guarantee the Motorcraft one isn't made there too. I guess I might want to get one in case I find another YC2F unit (this one has to go back on the E250).

Rusty - Those systems sound nice, but expensive. I think I'm going to be happy with my EEC-V system, but I have a lot to learn.

For instance, guys, the above talks about MAP. But I don't see anything related to MAP in the inputs to the ECU. Am I missing something? How does the ECU know the atmospheric pressure? Or manifold pressure? Or does it need to?

Bill - On the connector, if the MAF sensor coming in this week has the IAT sensor built in then I'll buy the less expensive connector and do as you suggested - wire the air box-mounted IAT sensor's plug in parallel. That way I can run any of the MAF sensors. And I'll probably do that anyway as I think about it as it would give more flexibility.

[Rusty_S85]

Rusty - Those systems sound nice, but expensive. I think I'm going to be happy with my EEC-V system, but I have a lot to learn.

For instance, guys, the above talks about MAP. But I don't see anything related to MAP in the inputs to the ECU. Am I missing something? How does the ECU know the atmospheric pressure? Or manifold pressure? Or does it need to?

Bill - On the connector, if the MAF sensor coming in this week has the IAT sensor built in then I'll buy the less expensive connector and do as you suggested - wire the air box-mounted IAT sensor's plug in parallel. That way I can run any of the MAF sensors. And I'll probably do that anyway as I think about it as it would give more flexibility.

They are expensive but they are getting cheaper though and eventually you will have to upgrade to them as speed shops are constantly throwing away obsolete tuning equipment and the foxbody era equipment is getting quite hard to find. We did a exhaust and some goodies on a surburban at work only one guy in all of the US could tune the old OBDI GM computer and we had to mail it to him. That is why I always make sure to mention it because in OE stock form you should be fine it is when you start making changes and need someone to tune it that you realize its getting harder and harder to find someone.

Its a big reason why if I toss my sniper and go OE EFI I will be going with the holley system as its easier to locate a tuner local. I didnt think this kind of period would be upon us so soon I thought we would get to the 2040`s before tuners of the OBDI era computers were obsolete considering the huge following OBDI vehicles have in the hotrod world. But everything now is late model swap, 5.0 Coyote, 7.3 Godzilla, LS.

[Gary Lewis]

Rusty - Those systems sound nice, but expensive. I think I'm going to be happy with my EEC-V system, but I have a lot to learn.

For instance, guys, the above talks about MAP. But I don't see anything related to MAP in the inputs to the ECU. Am I missing something? How does the ECU know the atmospheric pressure? Or manifold pressure? Or does it need to?

Bill - On the connector, if the MAF sensor coming in this week has the IAT sensor built in then I'll buy the less expensive connector and do as you suggested - wire the air box-mounted IAT sensor's plug in parallel. That way I can run any of the MAF sensors. And I'll probably do that anyway as I think about it as it would give more flexibility.

I think I can now answer my own question. EEC-V systems don't have a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor as they determine both the air volume and density via the MAF sensor. This page on "Mass Airflow MAF Sensors" says:

Mass airflow sensors (MAF), which are used on a variety of multiport fuel injection systems, come in two basic varieties: hot wire and hot film. Though slightly different in design, both types of sensors measure the volume and density of the air entering the engine so the computer can calculate how much fuel is needed to maintain the correct fuel mixture.

And, as I think about it, Bills spreadsheet shows spec's in lb/min, so that takes into account density. And other places talk about grams/second - again taking into account the density of the air.

Bill - That then begs the question of how you got the CFM #'s. I ask because what I've found says that to get standard cubic feet/minute the air has to be at 0C and 1 atmosphere of pressure. And in that case you divide the lb/min by 0.0805321 and get SCFM.

Using that calc on the F8LF MAF sensor at 5.00 volts your #'s show 598.398 CFM and mine show 556.548 SCFM. Said another way, your #'s are 8% higher than mine.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Rusty - Those systems sound nice, but expensive. I think I'm going to be happy with my EEC-V system, but I have a lot to learn.

For instance, guys, the above talks about MAP. But I don't see anything related to MAP in the inputs to the ECU. Am I missing something? How does the ECU know the atmospheric pressure? Or manifold pressure? Or does it need to?

Bill - On the connector, if the MAF sensor coming in this week has the IAT sensor built in then I'll buy the less expensive connector and do as you suggested - wire the air box-mounted IAT sensor's plug in parallel. That way I can run any of the MAF sensors. And I'll probably do that anyway as I think about it as it would give more flexibility.

They are expensive but they are getting cheaper though and eventually you will have to upgrade to them as speed shops are constantly throwing away obsolete tuning equipment and the foxbody era equipment is getting quite hard to find. We did a exhaust and some goodies on a surburban at work only one guy in all of the US could tune the old OBDI GM computer and we had to mail it to him. That is why I always make sure to mention it because in OE stock form you should be fine it is when you start making changes and need someone to tune it that you realize its getting harder and harder to find someone.

Its a big reason why if I toss my sniper and go OE EFI I will be going with the holley system as its easier to locate a tuner local. I didnt think this kind of period would be upon us so soon I thought we would get to the 2040`s before tuners of the OBDI era computers were obsolete considering the huge following OBDI vehicles have in the hotrod world. But everything now is late model swap, 5.0 Coyote, 7.3 Godzilla, LS.

Rusty - I think once I tune the truck then I'll not have to worry about it. As Bill has done, I'll probably "burn" another ECU with the same parameters. But then it'll be replacing components when they fail.

Both Bill and I have Binary Editor so can tune Ford's EEC-V ECU's. I've not truly done it myself, but I watched as the guy from Core Tuning did the initial setup on my ECU where he turned off EGR, the 3rd O2 sensor, purge solenoids, etc. But once I get the truck running on the system I know I'll have to play with ignition timing and other parameters.

So, I have a lot to learn. But I believe it is a once-and-done thing. From that point you put the scan tool on and read the codes.

[85lebaront2]

I think I can now answer my own question. EEC-V systems don't have a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor as they determine both the air volume and density via the MAF sensor. This page on "Mass Airflow MAF Sensors" says:

Mass airflow sensors (MAF), which are used on a variety of multiport fuel injection systems, come in two basic varieties: hot wire and hot film. Though slightly different in design, both types of sensors measure the volume and density of the air entering the engine so the computer can calculate how much fuel is needed to maintain the correct fuel mixture.

And, as I think about it, Bills spreadsheet shows spec's in lb/min, so that takes into account density. And other places talk about grams/second - again taking into account the density of the air.

Bill - That then begs the question of how you got the CFM #'s. I ask because what I've found says that to get standard cubic feet/minute the air has to be at 0C and 1 atmosphere of pressure. And in that case you divide the lb/min by 0.0805321 and get SCFM.

Using that calc on the F8LF MAF sensor at 5.00 volts your #'s show 598.398 CFM and mine show 556.548 SCFM. Said another way, your #'s are 8% higher than mine.

It was a conversion I found on Google. If you seriously want to play with things, go put it at Standard Temperature and Pressure (Gas laws). I haven't messed with them since 1963 or 64 when I took physics in High School (in between building a cyclotron).

[Rusty_S85]

Rusty - I think once I tune the truck then I'll not have to worry about it. As Bill has done, I'll probably "burn" another ECU with the same parameters. But then it'll be replacing components when they fail.

Both Bill and I have Binary Editor so can tune Ford's EEC-V ECU's. I've not truly done it myself, but I watched as the guy from Core Tuning did the initial setup on my ECU where he turned off EGR, the 3rd O2 sensor, purge solenoids, etc. But once I get the truck running on the system I know I'll have to play with ignition timing and other parameters.

So, I have a lot to learn. But I believe it is a once-and-done thing. From that point you put the scan tool on and read the codes.

Generally it is a once and done thing, but it is a good idea to have a duplicate ecm in the off chance that yours goes out. the ecms dont fail much now a days but the older ecm`s had a higher fail rate but thats like any thing electrical you can have a fail out of the box, a week after installation, or twenty years after installation.

The learning is the hardest part, its a big reason why I played with the software I have from Holley but I will just pay a highly recommended guy to do the tune for me and once my truck is finished Ill just drive it out to him for a dyno tune to fine tune it.