Engine hard to start hot and wants to stay running with ignition off.

[351FUN]

The issue comes and goes, and has been back pretty bad since the truck sat a couple weeks. The first issue is it turns over real slow if the engine is hot, but once it catches it fires right up. New battery and all connections cleaned except for the starter itself, need to get down there and check that one soon but that means removing the heat wrap and everything and I haven't gotten to it yet. Truck has headers, but also hood vents and a scoop so it doesn't get terribly hot underhood.

Second issue is dieseling when I turn the ignition off. It stops for a moment then tries to spin over a little more. This is even with all power to the truck disconnected via master disconnect. It sounds awful too, like marble in a can.

The engine is not factory, it's a https://blueprintengines.com/products/306-ci-crate-engine-small-block-ford-dressed-longblock-carburetor-bp3060ctc The only change I've made from that is an edelbrock carb, but the issues have existed off and on with both carbs. A smaller but possibly related issue is it does not like to come out of fast idle, and issue both carbs had. Sometimes it will drop to a happy 800rpm, but a lot of times it's around 1500.

I do not know the timing, I had a shop set it but the timing marks on this engine are not the standard ones for a normal light, I don't know what you're supposed to use but the shop recognized it. If it's possibly a timing issue causing all of this I can take it to another shop and have them make sure it's right.

I think that's everything but if you need any more info let me know.

[kramttocs]

Does the fast idle cam set and release when you are playing with it by hand?

Matching the timing tape to the balancer is important but I've never heard of the marks not working with a light. What all did the shop do? Meaning is it something you think you should take back to them?

[Gary Lewis]

At 1500 RPM I doubt you are going to be able to get it to stop properly. And even 800 RPM is pushing the dieseling range. So you are going to have to get the RPM to come down reliably. I have a similar problem with Big Blue and have gone to two throttle return springs, and even that hasn't truly solved it.

As for the hard starting, it can be several different things. But since it happens only when the engine is hot I'll suggest two:

• Starter: As the bearings in the starter wear they allow the armature to get closer and closer to the field. Eventually the armature touches the field, causing a huge drag and heat. Heat causes both the armature and the field to expand, exacerbating the problem. So I suspect his is the real problem since when the engine and starter are hot the armature is already starting to expand.

• Timing: You didn't say what ignition system you have on the truck, but the good DS-II modules have a feature on them that retards the timing during cranking. This can make a huge difference, but it really shows up when the engine is hot.

[kramttocs]

At 1500 RPM I doubt you are going to be able to get it to stop properly. And even 800 RPM is pushing the dieseling range. So you are going to have to get the RPM to come down reliably. I have a similar problem with Big Blue and have gone to two throttle return springs, and even that hasn't truly solved it.

As for the hard starting, it can be several different things. But since it happens only when the engine is hot I'll suggest two:

• Starter: As the bearings in the starter wear they allow the armature to get closer and closer to the field. Eventually the armature touches the field, causing a huge drag and heat. Heat causes both the armature and the field to expand, exacerbating the problem. So I suspect his is the real problem since when the engine and starter are hot the armature is already starting to expand.

• Timing: You didn't say what ignition system you have on the truck, but the good DS-II modules have a feature on them that retards the timing during cranking. This can make a huge difference, but it really shows up when the engine is hot.

Good point Gary - when it's idling fast can you reach under there and push the throttle back causing the rpms to drop?

Depending upon what bracketry is being used you have the option of using the stock return or an aftermarket arm that comes out the front (myself and others here use one of these).

[351FUN]

Good point Gary - when it's idling fast can you reach under there and push the throttle back causing the rpms to drop?

Depending upon what bracketry is being used you have the option of using the stock return or an aftermarket arm that comes out the front (myself and others here use one of these).

The ignitions system is the one in the link, it's a coil on top of the distributor. I think it's called HEI, I've never worked with it before but it seems to work well enough. It could be the starter, but I meant to put in the first post that it's only a few years old with not a lot of mileage on it. It's possible it's the culprit but I'm hoping not. It's a powermaster mastertorque pwm-9604, the factory one wouldn't fit with the headers.

I wish I could tell you more about the timing. When I replaced the engine it ran well, but at one point I had it in for exhaust and had my shop do the timing because I couldn't figure it out. He told me the setup was for an old style way of setting timing. I need to contact Blueprint and get some information on that, and I'll try to get a good picture of it tomorrow.

I'll try pushing back on the linkage. I'm using the factory brackets now, it didn't seem to bind up but it may be just that simple.

[Gary Lewis]

The ignitions system is the one in the link, it's a coil on top of the distributor. I think it's called HEI, I've never worked with it before but it seems to work well enough. It could be the starter, but I meant to put in the first post that it's only a few years old with not a lot of mileage on it. It's possible it's the culprit but I'm hoping not. It's a powermaster mastertorque pwm-9604, the factory one wouldn't fit with the headers.

I wish I could tell you more about the timing. When I replaced the engine it ran well, but at one point I had it in for exhaust and had my shop do the timing because I couldn't figure it out. He told me the setup was for an old style way of setting timing. I need to contact Blueprint and get some information on that, and I'll try to get a good picture of it tomorrow.

I'll try pushing back on the linkage. I'm using the factory brackets now, it didn't seem to bind up but it may be just that simple.

Your ignition system probably does not have the retard feature. So you'll be limited on the amount of initial timing that is used.

As for the starter, the "factory" starter for a Bullnose truck is the old, large style. But in the 90's Ford changed to a modern permanent magnet gear-reduction starter. Those are smaller and much stronger then the old style - and are the same size as your Powermaster, but a whole lot less expensive.

I have a Powermaster in Big Blue, but it was on the truck when I got it. And I won't buy another one since PMGR starters are available in your local parts store.

[mat in tn]

Your ignition system probably does not have the retard feature. So you'll be limited on the amount of initial timing that is used.

As for the starter, the "factory" starter for a Bullnose truck is the old, large style. But in the 90's Ford changed to a modern permanent magnet gear-reduction starter. Those are smaller and much stronger then the old style - and are the same size as your Powermaster, but a whole lot less expensive.

I have a Powermaster in Big Blue, but it was on the truck when I got it. And I won't buy another one since PMGR starters are available in your local parts store.

the heavy start could very likely be too much timing. having a non std method of setting timing makes matters much more complicated. love em or hate em ,the hei usually work well, as to the rpm, i think a proper carb tune and set up are in order.

[Gary Lewis]

the heavy start could very likely be too much timing. having a non std method of setting timing makes matters much more complicated. love em or hate em ,the hei usually work well, as to the rpm, i think a proper carb tune and set up are in order.

Yes, too much timing can certainly cause problems. Which is why I like the DS-II since it has the retard feature. I think some HEI modules have it, but not the ones most of these distributors use, and even if it has it no one wires it up that way.

And I don't understand "having a non std method of setting timing". Spark is spark regardless of what module generates it. So why can't you use a timing light and dial in the initial advance?

[mat in tn]

Yes, too much timing can certainly cause problems. Which is why I like the DS-II since it has the retard feature. I think some HEI modules have it, but not the ones most of these distributors use, and even if it has it no one wires it up that way.

And I don't understand "having a non std method of setting timing". Spark is spark regardless of what module generates it. So why can't you use a timing light and dial in the initial advance?

before you start pushing back on the throttle linkage, I suggest snapping it off the carb and get the carb isolated from the linkage to narrow down whether its carb or linkage related. "Divide it in half to narrow the path" and so on.

[Gary Lewis]

before you start pushing back on the throttle linkage, I suggest snapping it off the carb and get the carb isolated from the linkage to narrow down whether its carb or linkage related. "Divide it in half to narrow the path" and so on.

That's an excellent idea!