Blucollar4xford Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Dave - In the link there's the pic shown below. That and discussions about really tight turns, basically like my zero-turn mower, makes me think he's going to be doing some serious climbing instead of racing. That's more bouncing than jumping in my book! I can see a lot of broken parts in his future! I wonder how well the TTB will work in that type of racing as most I am sure use a straight front axle front & rear. I guess that front brake steering may work in that case as I/we never did that type of racing. If they have classes he needs to see what he can and can not do before he gets into building this truck. If he has just 1 thing it could put him in a higher class and not be competitive. That's what happened to me with my auto cross / road race car. It was the grille that put me in the unlimited class (full on race cars with slicks) with a modify (suspension with street tires) stock motor car. Dave ---- FuzzFace, also funny you should mention the TTB! There are a lot of solid axle (coil over suspension with full hydraulic steering) rigs that literally grace the track. But there are two base types of vehicles you see, that do worth a damn, at these races: Anything centered around a TTB and Jeep Cherokees. Chevy and dodge stuff doesn’t show or isn’t worth watching unless they’re heavily modded. The only thing I can think of to compare, is autocross crossed with motocross. The successful guys that show up to race (not the guy that shows up to take the old Chevy on one last ride before the bone pile) use a lot of tricks from Baja trucks. There are a few 4x2 rigs that do well, too. I think anything up to 10th place pays, though it’s usually $50. But that’s usually your entry fee + $30 on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blucollar4xford Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 FuzzFace, also funny you should mention the TTB! There are a lot of solid axle (coil over suspension with full hydraulic steering) rigs that literally grace the track. But there are two base types of vehicles you see, that do worth a damn, at these races: Anything centered around a TTB and Jeep Cherokees. Chevy and dodge stuff doesn’t show or isn’t worth watching unless they’re heavily modded. The only thing I can think of to compare, is autocross crossed with motocross. The successful guys that show up to race (not the guy that shows up to take the old Chevy on one last ride before the bone pile) use a lot of tricks from Baja trucks. There are a few 4x2 rigs that do well, too. I think anything up to 10th place pays, though it’s usually $50. But that’s usually your entry fee + $30 on top of that. Here are a couple decent videos of what I’m talking about. Even found a TTB equipped Bronco! It’s nothing really too fancy and hasn’t evolved a whole lot since I’ve seen it (locally, anyway), but the guys that have the expensive rigs seems to be growing within the last 5-6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Here are a couple decent videos of what I’m talking about. Even found a TTB equipped Bronco! It’s nothing really too fancy and hasn’t evolved a whole lot since I’ve seen it (locally, anyway), but the guys that have the expensive rigs seems to be growing within the last 5-6 years. That's interesting! That Bronco seemed to be pretty well balanced, and the TTB was working well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blucollar4xford Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Today I got a really good start on shortening the frame. I mimicked F834’s method, though I used a crappy flux core welder and a (very) uneven driveway. I also only trimmed 14” out of the frame instead of 16”, since I plan on moving the front half of he body back 2”. Since I’ve reiterated my plans yet again, here are some pictures of my mess! “Finished product” 14” of hole Top, bottom, & middle slices. Knowing what I know now, I should’ve moved my cuts back an inch or so to avoid this step in the bottom flange. Had I done this, it would’ve matched up perfectly. Also, needed heavier alignment tabs. But I made do, regardless. Here’s the most consistent weld I had. My welder doesnt feed worth a damn, and is especially picky about what it’s welding. Again I say, it’s a mess. It’ll work with a little polishing, but I definitely need a new/different welder! Thankfully, it’s not going to see the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Today I got a really good start on shortening the frame. I mimicked F834’s method, though I used a crappy flux core welder and a (very) uneven driveway. I also only trimmed 14” out of the frame instead of 16”, since I plan on moving the front half of he body back 2”. Since I’ve reiterated my plans yet again, here are some pictures of my mess! “Finished product” 14” of hole Top, bottom, & middle slices. Knowing what I know now, I should’ve moved my cuts back an inch or so to avoid this step in the bottom flange. Had I done this, it would’ve matched up perfectly. Also, needed heavier alignment tabs. But I made do, regardless. Here’s the most consistent weld I had. My welder doesnt feed worth a damn, and is especially picky about what it’s welding. Again I say, it’s a mess. It’ll work with a little polishing, but I definitely need a new/different welder! Thankfully, it’s not going to see the road. Looking good. But, are you going to fishplate it? In other words, place a piece of steel across the joint on the inside of the frame and weld it on thorougly? That makes the joint much stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blucollar4xford Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Looking good. But, are you going to fishplate it? In other words, place a piece of steel across the joint on the inside of the frame and weld it on thorougly? That makes the joint much stronger. Yes sir, that’s actually on my list of things to do today. But I do have a question concerning that: Do I weld it solid, or do I leave some open spots? I’ve always heard going all the way around “seal welding” will actually weaken the joint since there’s no give. This doesn’t make much sense to me, but I also don’t like the idea of a nook or cranny that will trap water or any other element, especially on such a “vulnerable” spot. I’m heavily considering straps along the bottom flange of the frame to further bolster it. Thoughts or opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Yes sir, that’s actually on my list of things to do today. But I do have a question concerning that: Do I weld it solid, or do I leave some open spots? I’ve always heard going all the way around “seal welding” will actually weaken the joint since there’s no give. This doesn’t make much sense to me, but I also don’t like the idea of a nook or cranny that will trap water or any other element, especially on such a “vulnerable” spot. I’m heavily considering straps along the bottom flange of the frame to further bolster it. Thoughts or opinions? Your idea of straps along the top and bottom would be good. In a C or I configuration of a beam the web is mainly there to keep the upper and lower parts the proper distance apart. That's why Ford was able to do the Swiss Cheese frames in '80 and '81. So welding straps above and below would give you the most strength - for a vertical load. But if you are using the truck off-road you'll be twisting the frame, and top/bottom straps won't give as much strength in that situation as a plate on the side. So, were I to do it I'd put straps top, bottom, and sides. As for fully welding, you do not want to have water sitting in there. So if you are like me and doubt your ability to make a water-tight weld, you might want to leave a spot for water to get out. But I'd use weld-through primer between the straps to give as much protection as is possible against rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blucollar4xford Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Your idea of straps along the top and bottom would be good. In a C or I configuration of a beam the web is mainly there to keep the upper and lower parts the proper distance apart. That's why Ford was able to do the Swiss Cheese frames in '80 and '81. So welding straps above and below would give you the most strength - for a vertical load. But if you are using the truck off-road you'll be twisting the frame, and top/bottom straps won't give as much strength in that situation as a plate on the side. So, were I to do it I'd put straps top, bottom, and sides. As for fully welding, you do not want to have water sitting in there. So if you are like me and doubt your ability to make a water-tight weld, you might want to leave a spot for water to get out. But I'd use weld-through primer between the straps to give as much protection as is possible against rust. I was thinking the straps mostly for insurance against jumping. But you bring up a good point about all the twisting and flexing the frame does. I’ve also heard the frames like to eventually buckle at the bend (obviously both sides) near where the proportioning valve is. So I’m currently dreaming up something to try to reinforce that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I was thinking the straps mostly for insurance against jumping. But you bring up a good point about all the twisting and flexing the frame does. I’ve also heard the frames like to eventually buckle at the bend (obviously both sides) near where the proportioning valve is. So I’m currently dreaming up something to try to reinforce that area. Which way do the frames buckle there? You may be able to reinforce the frame by welding strap on the top and bottom and welding it on And to prevent creating a hard spot where all the forces are focused you could taper the ends of the straps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blucollar4xford Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Which way do the frames buckle there? You may be able to reinforce the frame by welding strap on the top and bottom and welding it on And to prevent creating a hard spot where all the forces are focused you could taper the ends of the straps. After some time, the cab pushes the frame down and makes the nose point skyward. I’d say by the time mine gets that far, I hope to be ready or close to ready to start with tubing. Excellent idea on the tapering! Singlehandedly my favorite reason for forums. Second opinions and different points of view really come in handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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