Nothing Special home ('wheeling) movies

[Gary Lewis]

The S10 sold today.

$5000.00 firm on the price, nowadays I didn’t expect it to last.

I guess since these transfer cases don’t get used a lot, they like to sing when they do!

Bummer - unless it was to you.

[Nothing Special]

.... But I didn't know those S10 ZR2's were that capable. His really did well compared to the Jeep....

Stock the S-10 had 31" tires and the clearance to use them. That's the same as the green Jeep from my first videos, so that's about a wash.

The Jeep is smaller so in tight places it has a big advantage. On the other hand, the S-10, with it's longer wheelbase, is a more stable platform, especially on steep climbs or descents. On these trips it wasn't ever that tight, and it wasn't ever that steep, so again about a wash.

The S-10 had more compliant suspension than the Jeep, but on a bigger platform. The S-10 probably gets the advantage here on the trails we were on.

And the biggest difference was the rear locker in the S-10.

So yes, the S-10 did very well. It'll show up in another trip or two as well, so you'll see it a little more.

 

[Gary Lewis]

.... But I didn't know those S10 ZR2's were that capable. His really did well compared to the Jeep....

Stock the S-10 had 31" tires and the clearance to use them. That's the same as the green Jeep from my first videos, so that's about a wash.

The Jeep is smaller so in tight places it has a big advantage. On the other hand, the S-10, with it's longer wheelbase, is a more stable platform, especially on steep climbs or descents. On these trips it wasn't ever that tight, and it wasn't ever that steep, so again about a wash.

The S-10 had more compliant suspension than the Jeep, but on a bigger platform. The S-10 probably gets the advantage here on the trails we were on.

And the biggest difference was the rear locker in the S-10.

So yes, the S-10 did very well. It'll show up in another trip or two as well, so you'll see it a little more.

Obviously a compliant suspension and a rear locker makes a tremendous difference.

To contrast, my high school buddies and I made a "dune buggy" out of a '37 Chevy panel truck. We ditched the body, chopped the frame 36", took the center out of spare wheels and welded the rims to another pair of rims for duals, and took it offroading. And promptly got stuck with one wheel hanging in the breeze and spinning madly. The stock rear suspension wouldn't let it drop to the ground, and w/o a locker it was free to spin.

Yours truly grabbed the wheel, when it was stopped, and had my buddy let out SLOWLY on the clutch. That was just enough to move the thing forward and get the wheel back on the ground and we could drive again.

If we'd have known what we were doing we'd have pulled a leaf or two out of the rear springs, and maybe have welded the diff up. But we had no clue so we had the worst of both worlds - a stiff suspension and an open diff.

[Nothing Special]

Obviously a compliant suspension and a rear locker makes a tremendous difference.

To contrast, my high school buddies and I made a "dune buggy" out of a '37 Chevy panel truck. We ditched the body, chopped the frame 36", took the center out of spare wheels and welded the rims to another pair of rims for duals, and took it offroading. And promptly got stuck with one wheel hanging in the breeze and spinning madly. The stock rear suspension wouldn't let it drop to the ground, and w/o a locker it was free to spin.

Yours truly grabbed the wheel, when it was stopped, and had my buddy let out SLOWLY on the clutch. That was just enough to move the thing forward and get the wheel back on the ground and we could drive again.

If we'd have known what we were doing we'd have pulled a leaf or two out of the rear springs, and maybe have welded the diff up. But we had no clue so we had the worst of both worlds - a stiff suspension and an open diff.

Our next 'wheeling trip was in 1998 to the Black Hills in South Dakota. The kids were 4 and 2 and we brought both of them. We flat-towed the Jeep behind Lesley's 1993 Explorerand stayed in Yogi Bear's Jellystone Park just south of Rapid City. The campground had a pool, a TV room with Hanna-Barbera cartoons on video tape and a "train" ride with Yogi every night! The kids loved all of that! We also did a lot of touristy stuff to break up the trip (and got ice cream at Mt. Rushmore several times). That all kept the trip more fun for everyone. In fact, while this was our first trip to the Black Hills I think we've been there about 8 times now.

But yes, this was still a 'wheeling trip. There was this new thing called "The Internet" and I had made contact with a guy in a local 4WD club who had suggest some maps I should get. I met with him on our first day there and he pointed me to some good places to try. We also made plans to meet up on our last day and he'd guide me on a trail!

We didn't get much video of our first few days. It was more exploring and not a lot of very difficult challenges. But we did get some video of a trail I was told was named "Old Miner." It was mostly a powerline road, with some very steep hills with slightly loose gravel. It doesn’t look like much in the video, but these hills were hard to walk up or down. It was a little spooky starting down one the first time, not knowing if I’d be able to drive back up it, but it turned out to be a piece of cake.

This next trail is the one that the local guy guided us on. He said it was called “Trapper's Run”. Looking back, as much fun as we had on our other trips, this was the first real rock crawling we’d done other than Spring Creek Trail. Being able to watch someone else do it first, having an experienced spotter, and knowing that even if I did break I’d be able to get out all made it possible to push my limits farther than I otherwise would’ve. I also learned to air down tires this day! I think I went down to about 15 psi.

That's all the video from this trip. Thanks for reading and watching!

[Gary Lewis]

Our next 'wheeling trip was in 1998 to the Black Hills in South Dakota. The kids were 4 and 2 and we brought both of them. We flat-towed the Jeep behind Lesley's 1993 Explorerand stayed in Yogi Bear's Jellystone Park just south of Rapid City. The campground had a pool, a TV room with Hanna-Barbera cartoons on video tape and a "train" ride with Yogi every night! The kids loved all of that! We also did a lot of touristy stuff to break up the trip (and got ice cream at Mt. Rushmore several times). That all kept the trip more fun for everyone. In fact, while this was our first trip to the Black Hills I think we've been there about 8 times now.

But yes, this was still a 'wheeling trip. There was this new thing called "The Internet" and I had made contact with a guy in a local 4WD club who had suggest some maps I should get. I met with him on our first day there and he pointed me to some good places to try. We also made plans to meet up on our last day and he'd guide me on a trail!

We didn't get much video of our first few days. It was more exploring and not a lot of very difficult challenges. But we did get some video of a trail I was told was named "Old Miner." It was mostly a powerline road, with some very steep hills with slightly loose gravel. It doesn’t look like much in the video, but these hills were hard to walk up or down. It was a little spooky starting down one the first time, not knowing if I’d be able to drive back up it, but it turned out to be a piece of cake.

This next trail is the one that the local guy guided us on. He said it was called “Trapper's Run”. Looking back, as much fun as we had on our other trips, this was the first real rock crawling we’d done other than Spring Creek Trail. Being able to watch someone else do it first, having an experienced spotter, and knowing that even if I did break I’d be able to get out all made it possible to push my limits farther than I otherwise would’ve. I also learned to air down tires this day! I think I went down to about 15 psi.

That's all the video from this trip. Thanks for reading and watching!

Now you are getting into some more difficult stuff! Hard to tell in the first video how steep it is, but you get some sense of it when the back end of the Jeep walks a bit as the locker kicks in.

But that rock crawling was awesome! The Jeep was pretty well dialed in, save for the carb ("Don't stall it!") and it sure came up those rocks nicely - although it didn't seem to do the bumpers any good.

But you were down to 15 psi on the 2nd video? Didn't look like it in the first video, although in the 2nd they did seem a bit softer. Yes?

[Nothing Special]

Now you are getting into some more difficult stuff! Hard to tell in the first video how steep it is, but you get some sense of it when the back end of the Jeep walks a bit as the locker kicks in.

But that rock crawling was awesome! The Jeep was pretty well dialed in, save for the carb ("Don't stall it!") and it sure came up those rocks nicely - although it didn't seem to do the bumpers any good.

But you were down to 15 psi on the 2nd video? Didn't look like it in the first video, although in the 2nd they did seem a bit softer. Yes?

The Jeep squirming around like you say is the best clue to how steep it is. Another clue to how steep it is when the Jeep is on the flat at the bottom of the hill you can see a lot of the top surface because you're looking down at it. But as the Jeep starts pointing up the hill at you all you can see is the front.

I actually even had the carb dialed in pretty well by then. If I'd had lower gearing (my crawl ratio was 34:1) I don't think I'd have had any trouble. But I had the idle backed way off to keep the speeds lower, so I still stalled some.

You'll see in later videos that I eventually replaced the rear bumper to improve my departure angle. I always thought about replacing the front, but never got around to it. It generally wasn't much f a problem (although you'll see a place where it did hang me up in the videos of my next trip).

And yes, I was still at full street pressure (30 psi?) in the first video, but down to 15 psi in the second. I can't say I noticed a huge difference in traction, but the improvement in ride was enough to convince me it was worth doing. And later as I did more rock crawling I saw more of the traction benefits.

[Gary Lewis]

The Jeep squirming around like you say is the best clue to how steep it is. Another clue to how steep it is when the Jeep is on the flat at the bottom of the hill you can see a lot of the top surface because you're looking down at it. But as the Jeep starts pointing up the hill at you all you can see is the front.

I actually even had the carb dialed in pretty well by then. If I'd had lower gearing (my crawl ratio was 34:1) I don't think I'd have had any trouble. But I had the idle backed way off to keep the speeds lower, so I still stalled some.

You'll see in later videos that I eventually replaced the rear bumper to improve my departure angle. I always thought about replacing the front, but never got around to it. It generally wasn't much f a problem (although you'll see a place where it did hang me up in the videos of my next trip).

And yes, I was still at full street pressure (30 psi?) in the first video, but down to 15 psi in the second. I can't say I noticed a huge difference in traction, but the improvement in ride was enough to convince me it was worth doing. And later as I did more rock crawling I saw more of the traction benefits.

My crawl ratio in 1st gear is 56:1, and in 2nd it is 29:1. So you were basically starting in my 2nd gear. Yikes! No wonder you stalled it from time to time.

As for airing down, I'm thinking 15 psi was still too high for the light weight of the Jeep and the stiff sidewall of the tires. I'm not seeing much flex in the tires, although I can see a difference in the way the Jeep rode. Didn't you say you are down to something like 12 psi on the Bronco?

But we won't compare departure angles. Big Blue isn't in the same league.

[Nothing Special]

My crawl ratio in 1st gear is 56:1, and in 2nd it is 29:1. So you were basically starting in my 2nd gear. Yikes! No wonder you stalled it from time to time.

As for airing down, I'm thinking 15 psi was still too high for the light weight of the Jeep and the stiff sidewall of the tires. I'm not seeing much flex in the tires, although I can see a difference in the way the Jeep rode. Didn't you say you are down to something like 12 psi on the Bronco?

But we won't compare departure angles. Big Blue isn't in the same league.

I always wanted a lower crawl ratio in the Jeep, but it never made the top of the priority list (never even close actually). The close-ratio T-18 that Jeep used only has a 4:1 1st gear and the Model 20 transfer case is only 2:1. So even with 4.27 axle gears it still crawled pretty fast.

My 3rd 'wheeling trip (no video) was in my '85 F-250. The 6.69:1 first gear of the NP435 and the ~2.7:1 of the transfer case (I don't recall exactly which one) gave me a crawl ratio of 64:1, even with 3.54 axle gears. That made me realize what I was missing in the Jeep. The thing that (mostly) saved the Jeep was that the 258 six would idle down pretty well.

15 psi wasn't bad, but there's no way a CJ5 should be running load range E tires. Eventually I switched to load range C. You'll see that in a few more trips.

And I ran 15 psi in my Bronco until about a year ago when I dropped to 11 or 12 (whatever my tire deflaters are set to). It's not really that I thought that 15 was too high, I just know that people with bead locks say that lower is better, and usually run 4 - 8 psi. I've never lost a bead at 15 so I just decided to try to push it a little farther. So far so good, but for the most part I've got no complaint with 15 psi.

But there's no way I'm going back to load range E tires on my light trail rigs!

As to departure angle, there's a reason that vehicles like CJs and Broncos are sometimes called "bobtails"!

[Gary Lewis]

I always wanted a lower crawl ratio in the Jeep, but it never made the top of the priority list (never even close actually). The close-ratio T-18 that Jeep used only has a 4:1 1st gear and the Model 20 transfer case is only 2:1. So even with 4.27 axle gears it still crawled pretty fast.

My 3rd 'wheeling trip (no video) was in my '85 F-250. The 6.69:1 first gear of the NP435 and the ~2.7:1 of the transfer case (I don't recall exactly which one) gave me a crawl ratio of 64:1, even with 3.54 axle gears. That made me realize what I was missing in the Jeep. The thing that (mostly) saved the Jeep was that the 258 six would idle down pretty well.

15 psi wasn't bad, but there's no way a CJ5 should be running load range E tires. Eventually I switched to load range C. You'll see that in a few more trips.

And I ran 15 psi in my Bronco until about a year ago when I dropped to 11 or 12 (whatever my tire deflaters are set to). It's not really that I thought that 15 was too high, I just know that people with bead locks say that lower is better, and usually run 4 - 8 psi. I've never lost a bead at 15 so I just decided to try to push it a little farther. So far so good, but for the most part I've got no complaint with 15 psi.

But there's no way I'm going back to load range E tires on my light trail rigs!

As to departure angle, there's a reason that vehicles like CJs and Broncos are sometimes called "bobtails"!

Yes, load range E's don't make sense for a purely trail vehicle. But on Big Blue I think they do. And with his weight 15 psi seems to work pretty well. However, the amount of friction that creates is amazing. It would be hard for the truck to roll away unless it was a pretty steep incline. And that surely factors into the 4 MPG. I've actually wondered if 20 psi for the stuff that Janey and I are going to do in January might be a good compromise.

Anyway, the NP435's 1st gear is amazing. I sure wish it had an overdrive as that . But, had I gone with 4.10's instead of the 3.55's I'd have had 65:1 in 1st on the ZF5. Still, the 56:1 seems to work pretty well. And the 460 doesn't mind being pulled down either.

So, when do you head to Moab? What changes are you making before then? Not that this is the thread for that, but...

[Nothing Special]

Yes, load range E's don't make sense for a purely trail vehicle. But on Big Blue I think they do. And with his weight 15 psi seems to work pretty well. However, the amount of friction that creates is amazing. It would be hard for the truck to roll away unless it was a pretty steep incline. And that surely factors into the 4 MPG. I've actually wondered if 20 psi for the stuff that Janey and I are going to do in January might be a good compromise.

Anyway, the NP435's 1st gear is amazing. I sure wish it had an overdrive as that . But, had I gone with 4.10's instead of the 3.55's I'd have had 65:1 in 1st on the ZF5. Still, the 56:1 seems to work pretty well. And the 460 doesn't mind being pulled down either.

So, when do you head to Moab? What changes are you making before then? Not that this is the thread for that, but...

Our next 'wheeling trip is still up in the air. Lesley wants to go to Bryce Canyon and/or Zion national parks. That's pretty close to Hurricane Utah which also has some pretty good fourwheeling, including sand dunes which would be a new challenge! But I'm a little nervous about doing something that new to me without some backup (the idea of getting stuck miles back in the dunes doesn't appeal to me as much as it might have 30 years ago). And I don't know much about the rockcrawling trails there. I've seen some video that makes it look a lot like Moab, but every video I've seen has parts that look to be a little beyond what I'm real comfortable doing alone. So some more research is needed, otherwise we might go to the southwestern Utah parks but still 'wheel in Moab.

Anyway, the tentative schedule for that is something like September 2022. Having been in Utah in the heat of September and May, I really don't relish the idea of being there in June, July or August! And I don't think I'll have the Bronco ready by May. Because since you asked, the plan this winter / spring is a pretty major redo of the front suspension (among other things). However, rather than clutter this tread with that discussion I'll shift this to my Bronco build thread at this point.