taskswap Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 I would post what happened on the rebuild of Bullwinkle 1.0 and the start of Bullwinkle 2.0 You could keep 2.0 in that post / thread as it is still Bullwinkle. Dave ---- Alright I will. :) Figure a week before there's an update on Bullwinkle. Need to sort out the financing and it takes a bit of time. I do plan a few mods for it to make it more "Rocky friendly" so I'll post those there. Meanwhile I'm a day away from reassembling my brakes, if all goes well. I'm really just waiting for the parking brake cables to get here. I think its "possible" to install them after the shoes but given the tight routing I think it's easier to go in order... Given all the shipping delays, I decided to go "whole hog" and ordered a bunch of stuff like a replacement master cylinder, replacement front wheel hoses and the rear center hose, bolts, washers, all that kind of stuff. But I can't seem to find a replacement booster. The MPC on this is E0TZ-2005-B which is "81/83 F250 2/W/D, 4/W/D and and dual piston, w/booster - 8500 GVW and over". My GVW is 8650 so I think thats the right one. All I can find matching this on Amazon/Summit/Jegs/etc is a remanufactured Cardone that seems to get terrible reviews, stuff like "didn't even last a year". eBay has a bunch of generic options (no reviews) but all seem to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Alright I will. :) Figure a week before there's an update on Bullwinkle. Need to sort out the financing and it takes a bit of time. I do plan a few mods for it to make it more "Rocky friendly" so I'll post those there. Meanwhile I'm a day away from reassembling my brakes, if all goes well. I'm really just waiting for the parking brake cables to get here. I think its "possible" to install them after the shoes but given the tight routing I think it's easier to go in order... Given all the shipping delays, I decided to go "whole hog" and ordered a bunch of stuff like a replacement master cylinder, replacement front wheel hoses and the rear center hose, bolts, washers, all that kind of stuff. But I can't seem to find a replacement booster. The MPC on this is E0TZ-2005-B which is "81/83 F250 2/W/D, 4/W/D and and dual piston, w/booster - 8500 GVW and over". My GVW is 8650 so I think thats the right one. All I can find matching this on Amazon/Summit/Jegs/etc is a remanufactured Cardone that seems to get terrible reviews, stuff like "didn't even last a year". eBay has a bunch of generic options (no reviews) but all seem to be <8500 GVW. What makes more sense here? My booster is not actually failing right now, but the truck's 40+ years old... It's probably more luck than anything, right? Should I risk it awhile longer and hope for a NOS part to come up (and still have a good/sealed diaphragm)? Or try one of these other parts and maybe keep my booster as a spare part? Both seem kind of equally bad... I'd use the booster you have until it fails, and watch for a better one in the interim. As for the master cylinder, did you go with the later version? I really like the ones with the plastic reservoir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskswap Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 I'd use the booster you have until it fails, and watch for a better one in the interim. As for the master cylinder, did you go with the later version? I really like the ones with the plastic reservoir. No, I wasn't sure whether those were better or worse so I went with the exact replacement from AC Delco, this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C9JDPW. Is the plastic lid one that much better? Speaking of cheap replacement parts is this interesting at all? https://www.ebay.com/itm/275055139689 It looks identical to mine and a reasonable price. I have no reason to believe mine is leaking but it sure is rusted, would it be a good idea to replace it just as a preventive item? (Sorry for the terrible pic but you get the idea...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 No, I wasn't sure whether those were better or worse so I went with the exact replacement from AC Delco, this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C9JDPW. Is the plastic lid one that much better? Speaking of cheap replacement parts is this interesting at all? https://www.ebay.com/itm/275055139689 It looks identical to mine and a reasonable price. I have no reason to believe mine is leaking but it sure is rusted, would it be a good idea to replace it just as a preventive item? (Sorry for the terrible pic but you get the idea...) There are several advantages to the newer master cylinders, like the ability to see how much fluid you have w/o pulling the cap, a cap that doesn't leak, and the ability to put a pressure bleeder on and bleed the brakes that way. But the older ones work fine, so there's no problem with staying with it. On the vacuum reservoir, if it doesn't leak then it isn't a problem. But if it is rusty it might leak. So if you don't want to clean it up and paint it to stop the rust then replacing it is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlisle Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Alright I will. :) Figure a week before there's an update on Bullwinkle. Need to sort out the financing and it takes a bit of time. I do plan a few mods for it to make it more "Rocky friendly" so I'll post those there. Meanwhile I'm a day away from reassembling my brakes, if all goes well. I'm really just waiting for the parking brake cables to get here. I think its "possible" to install them after the shoes but given the tight routing I think it's easier to go in order... Given all the shipping delays, I decided to go "whole hog" and ordered a bunch of stuff like a replacement master cylinder, replacement front wheel hoses and the rear center hose, bolts, washers, all that kind of stuff. But I can't seem to find a replacement booster. The MPC on this is E0TZ-2005-B which is "81/83 F250 2/W/D, 4/W/D and and dual piston, w/booster - 8500 GVW and over". My GVW is 8650 so I think thats the right one. All I can find matching this on Amazon/Summit/Jegs/etc is a remanufactured Cardone that seems to get terrible reviews, stuff like "didn't even last a year". eBay has a bunch of generic options (no reviews) but all seem to be <8500 GVW. What makes more sense here? My booster is not actually failing right now, but the truck's 40+ years old... It's probably more luck than anything, right? Should I risk it awhile longer and hope for a NOS part to come up (and still have a good/sealed diaphragm)? Or try one of these other parts and maybe keep my booster as a spare part? Both seem kind of equally bad... Like Gary said, use booster as is, but find the proper replacement. I replaced mine easily without disturbing anything else in the engine compartment. Unbolt the master, slide it off the bolts. Do the inside part, which is a little tough to access, but changes out without too much effort or disturbance. My booster came from NAPA and is a Cardone, but hasn't given me any problems yet. Almost a year now. F150 though Pay attention to the order the bushings on brake light switch when you do it. Put that back exactly like you removed and check your brake lights afterwards. I'm not impressed with the Autozone replacement switches. I went through two of those and have a "better" replacement from ebay now. The last one worked but only randomly at the end after a couple months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskswap Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 Like Gary said, use booster as is, but find the proper replacement. I replaced mine easily without disturbing anything else in the engine compartment. Unbolt the master, slide it off the bolts. Do the inside part, which is a little tough to access, but changes out without too much effort or disturbance. My booster came from NAPA and is a Cardone, but hasn't given me any problems yet. Almost a year now. F150 though Pay attention to the order the bushings on brake light switch when you do it. Put that back exactly like you removed and check your brake lights afterwards. I'm not impressed with the Autozone replacement switches. I went through two of those and have a "better" replacement from ebay now. The last one worked but only randomly at the end after a couple months. Thanks for the advice, guys. Got another one for you, brakes again. My parking brake cables just arrived. Among all the parts I've bought from various kits are replacements for the short spring-ended steel cable that goes from the top of the adjuster arm down to the spring loaded adjuster stop, sorry I don't know the name of it, this thing: To replace it, it looks like I have to take this thing off, which appears to be a bolt through the back plate: Fine so far. But I have this mental conflict over lubrication. I know better than to toss around WD-40 or any wet lubricant inside a brake but I've never dry-assembled moving parts in my life. Would some dry graphite/moly lube between the components on this bolt be OK? Or is it a bad idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlisle Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Thanks for the advice, guys. Got another one for you, brakes again. My parking brake cables just arrived. Among all the parts I've bought from various kits are replacements for the short spring-ended steel cable that goes from the top of the adjuster arm down to the spring loaded adjuster stop, sorry I don't know the name of it, this thing: To replace it, it looks like I have to take this thing off, which appears to be a bolt through the back plate: Fine so far. But I have this mental conflict over lubrication. I know better than to toss around WD-40 or any wet lubricant inside a brake but I've never dry-assembled moving parts in my life. Would some dry graphite/moly lube between the components on this bolt be OK? Or is it a bad idea? Is that second photo inside the backing plate? The upper pivot? I used a dab of high temp brake grease on all the moving metal to metal contact points in mine. I painted the backing plate. and all the metal parts that didn't come in the new hardware kit. Basic cleaning and quickie spray bombing to hopefully slow the attack of rust and brake dust. I used the first cans that came to hand - silver and burgundy. I know yours is a lkot different, but I see no issue using carefully applied grease to lube the metal parts. I didn't use giant globs, just a little to help metal move against metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Is that second photo inside the backing plate? The upper pivot? I used a dab of high temp brake grease on all the moving metal to metal contact points in mine. I painted the backing plate. and all the metal parts that didn't come in the new hardware kit. Basic cleaning and quickie spray bombing to hopefully slow the attack of rust and brake dust. I used the first cans that came to hand - silver and burgundy. I know yours is a lkot different, but I see no issue using carefully applied grease to lube the metal parts. I didn't use giant globs, just a little to help metal move against metal. I, too, have used grease. But I don't think that graphite would be a bad idea. It wouldn't collect dirt, but wouldn't lube as well as grease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskswap Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 I, too, have used grease. But I don't think that graphite would be a bad idea. It wouldn't collect dirt, but wouldn't lube as well as grease. I used grease, thanks for the suggestions guys. So today was either progress or a setback and to be honest I'm not sure which. Removing the parking brake levers took way longer than I hoped. It's just an 11m nut on the back but it somehow took me an hour of fumbling with different sockets, extensions, and wrenches before I found a combination that would fit back there. Pro tip for any future readers, if you're replacing your brake cylinders too, leave them out while you do this step because it gives you a bit of a better angle. A mirror is also super useful. I wish I had a magnetic one that I didn't have to hold... Next I tackled the parking brake cables. Dorman swears these are the right replacements for my truck but boy was it a struggle to fit them. They don't seem to enter the drum housing at the same angle and they seem to be a few inches longer as well - not enough to stop them from working, but enough to be frustrating to line up properly. After that it was shoe time. This went fine - I don't have to tell any of you that installing shoes is fussy work with "springs and things" so it takes awhile, but I got it done and I'm fairly sure I did it right. But once again, some trouble. The spring loaded brackets that engage the pawls on the adjusters just seem like they don't work all that well. It's easy to wiggle them into positions where they don't engage the pawls at all. I have some anxiety about them. After that I finished installing my new wheel studs, which was probably the easiest task of the list. I just hammered the new ones through the back (I got them aligned with the old knurls easily) until they were almost in, then put five washers on each stud (so my closed end wheel nuts wouldn't bottom out) and impacted on a sacrificial wheel nut to draw the stud tight. Took 10 minutes for both drums. Then I installed the inner bearings and seals in my wheels. I've always struggled to do this "right" (I don't own or even have room for a proper press) so I bought a seal installer kit. But it was hot garbage, way too soft to do the job right. So I just hammered the seals in the way I always do. I know you're not supposed to but if you go slowly and lightly around the edge with lots of gentle taps (a half millimeter at a time) it does the job without wrecking the seal. You can also put a plate across the seal while you do this but then you can't see your progress and IMO it's more important to drive it as straight as possible than to avoid dinging the face of the seal. So finally I installed the drums on the axle spindles, put in the outer bearings and the nuts (I bought new nuts as well). Once again, I had issues. So you know how normally you tighten the nut until the wheel won't turn, then back it off a quarter-turn and stake the nut? Well on one wheel I broke my breaker bar! I have a shorter one but it was a struggle to get the right torque with it. In the end it was progress with some letdowns. I was really hoping to get to a point where setting the parking brake would seize the drums. I know it's not reasonable to expect this until I have the shoes and parking brake cable both adjusted, and I haven't even done the master cylinder and bled the system yet. But I guess I was still hoping. The parking brake pedal is MUCH firmer now but even if I stomp on it, it doesn't "set" the shoes. I'll do the rest tomorrow, hopefully. Replacing the parking brake cables was a must because one of my old ones was damaged... But if you have the option I would recommend an alternative to Dorman if you can find one. I like most of their parts but these cables just don't seem to be quite right. Just FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 I used grease, thanks for the suggestions guys. So today was either progress or a setback and to be honest I'm not sure which. Removing the parking brake levers took way longer than I hoped. It's just an 11m nut on the back but it somehow took me an hour of fumbling with different sockets, extensions, and wrenches before I found a combination that would fit back there. Pro tip for any future readers, if you're replacing your brake cylinders too, leave them out while you do this step because it gives you a bit of a better angle. A mirror is also super useful. I wish I had a magnetic one that I didn't have to hold... Next I tackled the parking brake cables. Dorman swears these are the right replacements for my truck but boy was it a struggle to fit them. They don't seem to enter the drum housing at the same angle and they seem to be a few inches longer as well - not enough to stop them from working, but enough to be frustrating to line up properly. After that it was shoe time. This went fine - I don't have to tell any of you that installing shoes is fussy work with "springs and things" so it takes awhile, but I got it done and I'm fairly sure I did it right. But once again, some trouble. The spring loaded brackets that engage the pawls on the adjusters just seem like they don't work all that well. It's easy to wiggle them into positions where they don't engage the pawls at all. I have some anxiety about them. After that I finished installing my new wheel studs, which was probably the easiest task of the list. I just hammered the new ones through the back (I got them aligned with the old knurls easily) until they were almost in, then put five washers on each stud (so my closed end wheel nuts wouldn't bottom out) and impacted on a sacrificial wheel nut to draw the stud tight. Took 10 minutes for both drums. Then I installed the inner bearings and seals in my wheels. I've always struggled to do this "right" (I don't own or even have room for a proper press) so I bought a seal installer kit. But it was hot garbage, way too soft to do the job right. So I just hammered the seals in the way I always do. I know you're not supposed to but if you go slowly and lightly around the edge with lots of gentle taps (a half millimeter at a time) it does the job without wrecking the seal. You can also put a plate across the seal while you do this but then you can't see your progress and IMO it's more important to drive it as straight as possible than to avoid dinging the face of the seal. So finally I installed the drums on the axle spindles, put in the outer bearings and the nuts (I bought new nuts as well). Once again, I had issues. So you know how normally you tighten the nut until the wheel won't turn, then back it off a quarter-turn and stake the nut? Well on one wheel I broke my breaker bar! I have a shorter one but it was a struggle to get the right torque with it. In the end it was progress with some letdowns. I was really hoping to get to a point where setting the parking brake would seize the drums. I know it's not reasonable to expect this until I have the shoes and parking brake cable both adjusted, and I haven't even done the master cylinder and bled the system yet. But I guess I was still hoping. The parking brake pedal is MUCH firmer now but even if I stomp on it, it doesn't "set" the shoes. I'll do the rest tomorrow, hopefully. Replacing the parking brake cables was a must because one of my old ones was damaged... But if you have the option I would recommend an alternative to Dorman if you can find one. I like most of their parts but these cables just don't seem to be quite right. Just FYI. I think when you get everything together and apply the brakes hydraulically the parking brake will work well. It takes a lot of force and some wearing-in to get the shoes touching all the way around. The parking brake on Big Blue is binary - it is either on or off. There's nothing in between. When I first got the winch I was supposed to wind the cable up the first time under tension. So I set Blue at one end of the driveway and Big Blue at the other end. Ran the cable out to Blue's trailer hitch, set Blue's park brake, and went back to Big Blue to set the park brake "a little bit". There was no "little bit". Just a bit and the wheels lock and Blue came sliding to me. In other words, the park brake on these trucks can work very well. And I'll bet that yours does after you get the shoes to take a set and wear in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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