2019 Trip Planning - Ouray & The San Juans

[Gary Lewis]

(edit: I thought I'd put a link to the recent discussion of Black Bear Road so it doesn't get separated from this thread.)

Today I ran across

. It seems to be a group without a lot of hardcore experience in maybe a stock Wrangler Rubicon 4 door, a Wrangler 2 door with no lockers, and a Toyota FourRunner. I skipped over sections of the video, but he seems to show pretty much the entire trail other than the bypass and the easy section up by Lake Como.

They go up Poughkeepsie, from Engineer Mountain Road to Hurricane Pass. If you remember, I suggested you go down it. I actually prefer going up difficult obstacles (more challenge / fun to get over, but easier to stop before you get in trouble). But going down Poughkeepsie is the best way to guarantee you'll be able to make it to the part that's most worth seeing. (While the bypass trail isn't very hard, there is one section that has some VERY tight turns on a VERY narrow section of trail, with rocks (or at least pretty solid dirt mounds) on both sides. I'm not sure Big Blue would fit through there without hitting the sheetmetal.)

At 7:40 they get to where the bypass turns off the main trail. As they note, it's well marked with warning signs.

At 10:20 they get to the narrow, rough, steep approach to the staging area. This is a section that I know Big Blue can do, but I don't know if you'll want to do it. So I'd suggest you walk it before you commit to it.

At 11:10 they get to the staging area at the bottom of The Wall. If you pause at 11:10, the winding trail in the center of the shot is likely the easiest route. But it was closed off when we were there in 2018. We did take it in 2000. It's still steep and it's pretty loose dirt. So not a lot of risk of damage, but it wouldn't seem too unusual to end up digging holes rather than going up (I made it in 2000 with the CJ5 with a locker in the rear and open front)/

At about 11:20 he points out the three main routes up The Wall: left , middle and right. Left is an exciting challenge for a shorter wheelbase vehicle (I did it in the Jeep in 2000 and think I picked a front tire up pretty high, I couldn't get enough traction to go up it in the Bronco in 2018). Middle is a hard-core-only option. It's not THAT difficult or dangerous. But it's VERY easy to open up the side of your truck on the rock. I have no intention of ever taking that route.

Then up to about 29:00 they work to get all three vehicle up the right side.

I'll split the right side into three general lines. There's a hole / crack in the middle. Everyone (including me when I was out there in 2018) seems to think that straddling that hole is the easiest line up the right side. It's not. It's the hardest. The 4 door fights this line for quite a while, eventually winching. I didn't make it up that line in 2018, and I saw a lot of others fail as well. I only saw a couple of VERY capable vehicles make it.

The easiest line is to stay to the right of that hole. That's the line the Toyota takes. But in spite of being the easiest, it does have a sharp breakover at the top. I had no trouble with this on my CJ5 in 2000, but in 2018 my Broncos radius arm mounts hit solidly and there was no way I could make it over. Big Blue has a long wheelbase hindering, but quite a bit of clearance. I don't know if he'd make it over the top or not. (Spoiler alert, the Toyota high-centers and gets winched over the top.)

I can't tell for sure what line the 2 door takes. The camera is too low to show it well. It could be the same straddling-the-hole line that the 4 door tried, or it could be the line entirely to the left of the hole. That line is a lot harder than the right line, but I did see multiple vehicles make it up, including my Bronco. There's no sharp breakover on the left line, but there is a point where you're staring at the sky which is pretty freaky. It also would be relatively easy to slide into the hole to the right, which could get... interesting. I'm pretty sure Big Blue could make it up this, and there's a winch point above if needed. But I'm not at all sure that you would want to try it. Although if you just winched it would be a piece of cake, so you could make one sort of half-hearted attempt and decide if you wanted to keep trying or winch.

Still, it's a cool area and worth going to it just to see it, and probably to be able to watch others playing on it. And maybe you will see something worth trying.

One other suggestion specific to The Wall. The 4 door Jeep goes to a lot of work to get lined up at the bottom after going around a short steep pitch that's about 1 truck-length below The Wall. I don't know why he did that. Most people just drive up the short pitch and have no trouble lining up.

And I also want to speak to winch usage. They do a couple of things that I would never do with a winch rope. One is to run a winch rope as a safety strap. He keeps trying to make it up The Wall with the winch rope hooked up but slack. If he fell back and pulled the rope taut it would hit the rope and the winch HARD. The owners manual that came with my Warn winch says in no uncertain terms to only use a winch for static pulls, not dynamic. That can put a winch and rope over their rating in a hurry. If you need to run a safety strap, use a snatch strap connected directly to another vehicle.

The other thing is that at times a person is holding the slack winch rope while the vehicle is moving. Again, I wouldn't be moving the vehicle with a slack rope to begin with. But if that rope were to pull tight while a person is that close t it, it could be devastating, even if nothing broke.

And yes, they are using synthetic rope which is a lot safer than wire rope. But contrary to internet lore, when a synthetic rope breaks it does NOT "just drop to the ground." It slingshots, just like a wire rope. The safety comes from the fact that it's much less mass slingshotting, so if it hits something it won't go as far through before it stops. That could well be the difference between an injury that wrecks your day and one that wrecks the remainder of your survivors lives, so it's significant. But don't take winch safety lightly with a synthetic rope either.

Ok, I'm watching and making comments as I watch:

As said, I've been to Animas Forks. In fact, was close to there 2 weeks ago as we went up that way in my buddy's X7. Probably could have gone the whole way but he didn't want to.

10:20 Steep Section: Doesn't look too bad with the gear ratio I'll have. But hard to tell w/o being there - especially on the narrowness.

I'm not sure I want to tackle The Wall. I'm pretty sure BB could make it with the winch, but the graunches when the Toyota's undercarriage hit the rocks was UGLY. But I do want to see it, and maybe after a few days of running the trails I'll want to tackle it.

And I agree that their handling of the winch lines wasn't smart. If I hook the winch up it'll be to pull me over.

I'm going to have to put together a collection of Youtube links to send to my brother so we can talk about what we want to do, and I think this one will make the list. Thanks!>

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I hope your trip was fun. And I understand being swamped, so don't worry about getting back quickly....

Not to clutter your thread too much, but I did post some pictures from that trip to the North Shore of Lake Superior in a thread about my motorhome on FTE if you're interested.

Beautiful pics! Love them!

[Nothing Special]

.... 10:20 Steep Section: Doesn't look too bad with the gear ratio I'll have. But hard to tell w/o being there - especially on the narrowness....

I don't know what you'll think after seeing it. That's why I suggest coming in from the top. You can get close to all the hard stuff and walk to scout it

.... I'm not sure I want to tackle The Wall. I'm pretty sure BB could make it with the winch, but the graunches when the Toyota's undercarriage hit the rocks was UGLY. But I do want to see it, and maybe after a few days of running the trails I'll want to tackle it.

I wouldn't suggest winching over the right line like he did. It's not the worst thing in the world to do, but the issue on the left line (of the right side) is traction, not clearance. You can winch there without dragging the undercarriage.

However you could try to crawl the right line and stop and back down if you are going to high-center (and then winch up the left line).

But don't forget about your first statement above either: "I'm not sure I want to tackle The Wall." This is the hardest trail in the Ouray area. Feel free to pass on it if it doesn't seem like it'll be fun for you.

[Gary Lewis]

.... 10:20 Steep Section: Doesn't look too bad with the gear ratio I'll have. But hard to tell w/o being there - especially on the narrowness....

I don't know what you'll think after seeing it. That's why I suggest coming in from the top. You can get close to all the hard stuff and walk to scout it

.... I'm not sure I want to tackle The Wall. I'm pretty sure BB could make it with the winch, but the graunches when the Toyota's undercarriage hit the rocks was UGLY. But I do want to see it, and maybe after a few days of running the trails I'll want to tackle it.

I wouldn't suggest winching over the right line like he did. It's not the worst thing in the world to do, but the issue on the left line (of the right side) is traction, not clearance. You can winch there without dragging the undercarriage.

However you could try to crawl the right line and stop and back down if you are going to high-center (and then winch up the left line).

But don't forget about your first statement above either: "I'm not sure I want to tackle The Wall." This is the hardest trail in the Ouray area. Feel free to pass on it if it doesn't seem like it'll be fun for you.

A problem I see is the rear overhang on Big Blue. If I didn't drag going up I'd hit the rear bumper backing down. So I'm not sure I can do the right line.

But I do want to see the place. And I might try it. We shall see.

As for passing, if that's the only thing I don't do up there I'll be surprised.

[Nothing Special]

A problem I see is the rear overhang on Big Blue. If I didn't drag going up I'd hit the rear bumper backing down. So I'm not sure I can do the right line.

But I do want to see the place. And I might try it. We shall see.

As for passing, if that's the only thing I don't do up there I'll be surprised.

Yeah, rear overhang can be an issue. Ya know that left side that I said pointed you at the sky which could be a little freaky? I'm thinking Big Blue won't be doing this:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13104/DSC_7648_Poughkeepsie.jpg

[Gary Lewis]

A problem I see is the rear overhang on Big Blue. If I didn't drag going up I'd hit the rear bumper backing down. So I'm not sure I can do the right line.

But I do want to see the place. And I might try it. We shall see.

As for passing, if that's the only thing I don't do up there I'll be surprised.

Yeah, rear overhang can be an issue. Ya know that left side that I said pointed you at the sky which could be a little freaky? I'm thinking Big Blue won't be doing this:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13104/DSC_7648_Poughkeepsie.jpg

Nope, BB won't be doing that.

[Nothing Special]

Nope, BB won't be doing that.

Here's

. It was kind of fun for me because it says it was on August 14, 2018. I was on that trail less than a month before that, on July 18 2018.

My one "gripe" about this video is that it makes The Wall look a lot easier than it seemed to be when I was there. Everyone seems to just drive right up the middle line of the right side. That's what looked like the easiest line, but I saw very few people make it (and I wasn't one of them). But it does show the approach I was talking about, going straight up the ledge below The Wall rather than trying to drive around it.

Video of The Wall starts around 11:30. Around 13:30 the Jeep with the camera starts up & finishes around 15:00. I'd recommend going up either the line they take or to the left of it slightly.

The video goes on as they go out the top of Poughkeepsie, over Hurricane Pass at 23:50 and down California Gulch to Animas Forks.

And kind of a fun thing with Google Maps is that you can put GPS coordinates into the search bar. If yo paste in N37° 55.619' W107° 37.376' it will put you where the bypass trail meets up with the main trail a little ways above The Wall. Do the satellite view and you can see the trail from another perspective.

[Gary Lewis]

Here's

. It was kind of fun for me because it says it was on August 14, 2018. I was on that trail less than a month before that, on July 18 2018.

My one "gripe" about this video is that it makes The Wall look a lot easier than it seemed to be when I was there. Everyone seems to just drive right up the middle line of the right side. That's what looked like the easiest line, but I saw very few people make it (and I wasn't one of them). But it does show the approach I was talking about, going straight up the ledge below The Wall rather than trying to drive around it.

Video of The Wall starts around 11:30. Around 13:30 the Jeep with the camera starts up & finishes around 15:00. I'd recommend going up either the line they take or to the left of it slightly.

The video goes on as they go out the top of Poughkeepsie, over Hurricane Pass at 23:50 and down California Gulch to Animas Forks.

And kind of a fun thing with Google Maps is that you can put GPS coordinates into the search bar. If yo paste in N37° 55.619' W107° 37.376' it will put you where the bypass trail meets up with the main trail a little ways above The Wall. Do the satellite view and you can see the trail from another perspective.

You are right, that's a really good video! But you are also right, they made The Wall look easy. I seriously doubt Big Blue would do it that easily. However, we might try!

As for Google Maps, I didn't know you could paste lat/lon in. That's cool! I'm going to have to explore things along there. Thanks!

[Nothing Special]

Bob - I don't have a handheld GPS other than my phone. But I think I will have before our hoped-for trip next year. And in the interim I'll have to do some research.

Having said that, is a hand-held better than an iphone? ....

OK, I know this is old. But today I was watching a YouTube video where a guy was using the GPS on his phone to find someone who was stuck in the mountains. He had GPS coordinates from the other guy's phone to guide him.

Turns out that the GPS coordinates of where the other guy was stuck was about 5 miles from where he really was. And his own phone/gps lost signal for quite a while so he was hunting blind.

Like I said before, I don't have a cell phone, and I don't know how good or bad they are as a GPS. But if they rely on having a cell phone signal to work, and can be off by 5 miles if they have a bad signal, that's not what I want in a GPS. Which of course is a moot point because I have 4 different GPS units and no cell phone. But it's something to think about.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I don't have a handheld GPS other than my phone. But I think I will have before our hoped-for trip next year. And in the interim I'll have to do some research.

Having said that, is a hand-held better than an iphone? ....

OK, I know this is old. But today I was watching a YouTube video where a guy was using the GPS on his phone to find someone who was stuck in the mountains. He had GPS coordinates from the other guy's phone to guide him.

Turns out that the GPS coordinates of where the other guy was stuck was about 5 miles from where he really was. And his own phone/gps lost signal for quite a while so he was hunting blind.

Like I said before, I don't have a cell phone, and I don't know how good or bad they are as a GPS. But if they rely on having a cell phone signal to work, and can be off by 5 miles if they have a bad signal, that's not what I want in a GPS. Which of course is a moot point because I have 4 different GPS units and no cell phone. But it's something to think about.

It IS something to think about. My brother has a Garmin GPS unit and we'll probably use it for the trip this summer.

But cell phones have their own GPS receivers and my experience last fall with my iPhone X and the AllTrails app was very good. It had us right on the trails we were taking, meaning Last Dollar and Ophir Pass. We could see the switchbacks with ease, and when we quit watching it and did our own thing we soon figured out where we'd gone wrong.

But if I get my son into overlanding I'm going to go with the Garmin inReach that no only provides trail mapping but also has text communication as well as emergency communications. Yes, there's a monthly fee but you can turn it off except when you are going on a trip.