Oswald: Nothing Special's '97 F-250 Crew Cab

[Nothing Special]

Bummer! But things like that do see to happen at inopportune times. Glad it worked out

What brand was on it that failed?

No idea on the brand of the old one. I think the new one was Duralast??? Whatever AutoZone had in stock.

[AmericanSavage]

Well done!

Man, that old 'gate looks bad! I forgot where you are - in the rust belt. The buckle thereof?

But it seems like you'll be able to meld the two gates to make one that does everything right. Makes the detour well worth it.

Just a thought: that tailgate rusted at the bottom could be saved—it would be cheap to buy some sheet metal, and either roll it on a wheel, OR bend it into shape over the original with light clamping, etc…and spot welded into place. Then light bondo.

I did mine that was similar shape.

Loved the truck, and the rusted one—OSPHO would definitely halt in its tracks all that rust.

[Nothing Special]

Just a thought: that tailgate rusted at the bottom could be saved—it would be cheap to buy some sheet metal, and either roll it on a wheel, OR bend it into shape over the original with light clamping, etc…and spot welded into place. Then light bondo.

I did mine that was similar shape.

Loved the truck, and the rusted one—OSPHO would definitely halt in its tracks all that rust.

I have my doubts about stopping rust, ever. Inside the 'gate isn't very open, so getting the rust inside treated completely would be challenging at best. And if it isn't it'll come right back.

Plus there's the fact that it isn't close to straight.

I seriously doubt I'll ever put any time into repairing it. I think it's way past my abilities.

[Nothing Special]

I have my doubts about stopping rust, ever. Inside the 'gate isn't very open, so getting the rust inside treated completely would be challenging at best. And if it isn't it'll come right back.

Plus there's the fact that it isn't close to straight.

I seriously doubt I'll ever put any time into repairing it. I think it's way past my abilities.

As I discussed in this thread, it was getting time to do something about the rusty condition of this truck. I decided to try to restore it. I'm intending to cut out the rusted metal from the cab and weld in patch panels, and probably replace the bed and front fenders. I'm also planning on replacing the 460 and E4OD. Right now I'm leaning toward a 351W and a 5 speed manual trans (possibly a ZF5, possibly an NV4500, possibly a Tremec...).

Those are the current plans, we'll see what really happens!

At this point all I've done is put it out to pasture. As was discussed near the end of that thread above, I now have a 2007 Dodge 2500 with a 6.7L Cummins and a 6 speed auto. That's going to be "my truck" until I'm finished with the '97 Ford (in whateverway I end up being finished!). I don't have room for 2 trucks, a Bronco and a motorhome in my suburban driveway, so the '97 has to go away until I'm ready to work on it. So today it towed my Bronco up to my parents cabin. I don't think it realized that it wasn't coming back home with us! (we drove the Bronco home)

Hopefully the restoration will get started late this summer.

[grumpin]

As I discussed in this thread, it was getting time to do something about the rusty condition of this truck. I decided to try to restore it. I'm intending to cut out the rusted metal from the cab and weld in patch panels, and probably replace the bed and front fenders. I'm also planning on replacing the 460 and E4OD. Right now I'm leaning toward a 351W and a 5 speed manual trans (possibly a ZF5, possibly an NV4500, possibly a Tremec...).

Those are the current plans, we'll see what really happens!

At this point all I've done is put it out to pasture. As was discussed near the end of that thread above, I now have a 2007 Dodge 2500 with a 6.7L Cummins and a 6 speed auto. That's going to be "my truck" until I'm finished with the '97 Ford (in whateverway I end up being finished!). I don't have room for 2 trucks, a Bronco and a motorhome in my suburban driveway, so the '97 has to go away until I'm ready to work on it. So today it towed my Bronco up to my parents cabin. I don't think it realized that it wasn't coming back home with us! (we drove the Bronco home)

Hopefully the restoration will get started late this summer.

Yup, here it is, happily towing your Bronco and you abandon it!

[Gary Lewis]

Yup, here it is, happily towing your Bronco and you abandon it!

I sorta know the feeling. As a kid my dad and I did a lot of squirrel hunting. He'd park me under a tree, tell me not to move, and go away with a promise to come back and get me. He always did, but there was that thought in my mind of "What if he doesn't come back?" It takes about 30 minutes of absolute stillness for a squirrel to think you are gone, and that is a long time to worry.

Seriously though, why go with a 351 instead of the 460? And a manual vs the auto? Just curious.

[Nothing Special]

I sorta know the feeling. As a kid my dad and I did a lot of squirrel hunting. He'd park me under a tree, tell me not to move, and go away with a promise to come back and get me. He always did, but there was that thought in my mind of "What if he doesn't come back?" It takes about 30 minutes of absolute stillness for a squirrel to think you are gone, and that is a long time to worry.

Seriously though, why go with a 351 instead of the 460? And a manual vs the auto? Just curious.

The first time I took my older son bird hunting (he was about 5) I was keeping him with me. We were getting into a lot of woodcock (we moved 9 in a 45 minute hunt). When one would flush I was trying to keep track of him and the dog to avoid shooting either one (or shooting too close to my son and scaring him withte noise), but all that disctraction meant I kept missing the bird. My dog would chase the bird , which was typical, but typically I could call her back. On this day she was finding and pointing another bird before I could get her back. Not normally a problem, but I wanted this to be a short hunt, and she kept pulling us farther away from the truck. So one time as the dog was on point, instead of bringing my 5 year old with me I told him to just wait. That gave me a better chance to kill the bird (which I did) so my dog made the retrieve and got back to me. Then i could send her back toward the truck (and my son). We picked my son up and got back to the truck pretty easily. Here he is holding that bird.

1sthunt1.bmp

On the truck, the trans question is easy. I don't like autos. I only got an auto in this truck because I hadn't found a crew cab with a gas engine and manual trans in 3 years of looking. I want one that's "really a 4 speed with an unusable 1st gear", because that seems better to me than having something like the NV3550 that's in my Bronco. That's a 3 speed with unuseable 2nd and 4th gears (gears are so close together that I go from 1st to 3rd to 5th).

For the engine, I simply don't need a 460 and I don't want to keep feeding it. I keep trying to talk myself into a diesel (and it would be a Cummins 6BT if I go that route), but in my experience they are more expensive to feed than my 460. The 460 gets 9-10 mpg while my 7.3L PowerStroke and now my 6.7L Cummins get about 13 mpg on more expensive fuel. I'm thinking I can get 12~13 with a 351.

A Chevy LS is also in the running. And I keep wondering about the Cummins 3.8L. I don't really know what I'll eventually land on, but right now I'm leaning toward the 351.

And before you tell me that you get 13 mpg with the 460 in Big Blue, I'm not talking about steady freeway driving. I'm talking about my day-to-day usage. I got about 14 mpg with the 351s in my '85 F-250, and '95 F-150 SuperCab. Yes, they are lighter than my '97 F-250 crew cab. And maybe I'll be disappointed in the mileage of a 351 in this truck. But I know I'll be OK with the power.

[Gary Lewis]

The first time I took my older son bird hunting (he was about 5) I was keeping him with me. We were getting into a lot of woodcock (we moved 9 in a 45 minute hunt). When one would flush I was trying to keep track of him and the dog to avoid shooting either one (or shooting too close to my son and scaring him withte noise), but all that disctraction meant I kept missing the bird. My dog would chase the bird , which was typical, but typically I could call her back. On this day she was finding and pointing another bird before I could get her back. Not normally a problem, but I wanted this to be a short hunt, and she kept pulling us farther away from the truck. So one time as the dog was on point, instead of bringing my 5 year old with me I told him to just wait. That gave me a better chance to kill the bird (which I did) so my dog made the retrieve and got back to me. Then i could send her back toward the truck (and my son). We picked my son up and got back to the truck pretty easily. Here he is holding that bird.

On the truck, the trans question is easy. I don't like autos. I only got an auto in this truck because I hadn't found a crew cab with a gas engine and manual trans in 3 years of looking. I want one that's "really a 4 speed with an unusable 1st gear", because that seems better to me than having something like the NV3550 that's in my Bronco. That's a 3 speed with unuseable 2nd and 4th gears (gears are so close together that I go from 1st to 3rd to 5th).

For the engine, I simply don't need a 460 and I don't want to keep feeding it. I keep trying to talk myself into a diesel (and it would be a Cummins 6BT if I go that route), but in my experience they are more expensive to feed than my 460. The 460 gets 9-10 mpg while my 7.3L PowerStroke and now my 6.7L Cummins get about 13 mpg on more expensive fuel. I'm thinking I can get 12~13 with a 351.

A Chevy LS is also in the running. And I keep wondering about the Cummins 3.8L. I don't really know what I'll eventually land on, but right now I'm leaning toward the 351.

And before you tell me that you get 13 mpg with the 460 in Big Blue, I'm not talking about steady freeway driving. I'm talking about my day-to-day usage. I got about 14 mpg with the 351s in my '85 F-250, and '95 F-150 SuperCab. Yes, they are lighter than my '97 F-250 crew cab. And maybe I'll be disappointed in the mileage of a 351 in this truck. But I know I'll be OK with the power.

I don't think I could concentrate on shooting if I had my son to worry about. You have a very short period of time to be on the bird, and stopping to think about where someone is would cause problems. So I do understand the problem - and the reason for missing the birds.

As for the engine, I also understand that reasoning. I've often thought I'd have been better off with a 351W - until I hook onto the trailer and load an E250 conversion van on it. Or head up steep passes in the mountains and don't have to downshift. Then the 460 seems worth it. But it doesn't get 13 MPG on the average. Instead we got 12.1 average for 1750 miles of mostly highway driving and some city and a few forest roads.

And I also understand the reasoning on the transmission. The ZF5 wide-ratio certainly qualifies as a 4-speed with an unusable 1st gear - until you hook onto a loaded trailer. And even then I did start in 2nd a couple of times yesterday on accident, and even got into 5th a few times, but the 460 is probably what made that work.

So a 351W/ZF5 combo might be sweet. Enough engine for most conditions in 2nd through 5th, but enough transmission to start and pull a load in 1st through 4th.

[Nothing Special]

.... So a 351W/ZF5 combo might be sweet. Enough engine for most conditions in 2nd through 5th, but enough transmission to start and pull a load in 1st through 4th.

That's my hope!

My '85 F-250 had an NP435 and 3.54 gears behind the 351. That gave it a tow rating of -900 lbs (GCWR of something like 7800 lbs minus the GVWR of 8700 lbs, hey don't blame me, it's Fords ratings!). It was always very competent up to a GCW of about 12,000. That's about the highest I ever happened to go with it. I'd have been comfortable towing even more, but never needed to. But it did need another gear in the 2 - 3 - 4 range. So I think a 5 speed with ZF5-like ratios would be pretty good with it.

I know I'm going to lose speed with a load on steep hills. But I so rarely do that, so it's not worth having a truck that's optimized for it.

 

[Gary Lewis]

.... So a 351W/ZF5 combo might be sweet. Enough engine for most conditions in 2nd through 5th, but enough transmission to start and pull a load in 1st through 4th.

That's my hope!

My '85 F-250 had an NP435 and 3.54 gears behind the 351. That gave it a tow rating of -900 lbs (GCWR of something like 7800 lbs minus the GVWR of 8700 lbs, hey don't blame me, it's Fords ratings!). It was always very competent up to a GCW of about 12,000. That's about the highest I ever happened to go with it. I'd have been comfortable towing even more, but never needed to. But it did need another gear in the 2 - 3 - 4 range. So I think a 5 speed with ZF5-like ratios would be pretty good with it.

I know I'm going to lose speed with a load on steep hills. But I so rarely do that, so it's not worth having a truck that's optimized for it.

Ford's ratings strongly favor the auto trannies, but I'd not seen one with a minus number.

To me the manuals should be able to tow more than the autos since there's so much less heat generated. And especially when comparing a 3-speed auto to a 5-speed manual, or even a 4-speed auto vs the 5-speed manual. The heat generated in that torque converter is lost power.

Big Blue is rated for 11,500 lbs with a manual and 15,000 lbs with an auto. With the van yesterday we were probably at 15,000 lbs and it handled it very confidently. But the wide gearing makes all the difference.