Gary's Trip To Ouray

[Machspeed]

Thanks, Scott.

Speaking of photos, I've been working on them to be able to share them. However, I've also discovered several ways not to do it. For one, taking two cameras, like my iPhone and a Nikon point & shoot, is a pain because the pictures are stored in two different places. And merging the two sets of files isn't easy. So it might be best to stick with one camera.

But wait, there's more! Gaia, the mapping app, has the ability to take pics from the app and show them on the map. But it seems have its own numbering scheme separate from that of the device on which the pic is shot, which makes sense because you could use several different devices to access the map and/or shot pics.

Given that, I've been struggling. But I think I'm there, so let's get this show on the road!

We stopped on the second day of driving on Monarch pass to take a break and get some ice cream. Note how clean Big Blue is.

But my brother spotted the cable car and wanted to go up, so we did:

And from the top I shot this 180 degree pano. (The railings are actually in one line.)

Awesome report, Gary! Almost felt like I was there. Looks like you guys had a blast and the scenery is beautiful. Would have loved to see it all as you guys did.

[ctubutis]

Awesome report, Gary! Almost felt like I was there. Looks like you guys had a blast and the scenery is beautiful. Would have loved to see it all as you guys did.

Looks like you had a good time, Gary!

This guy you met along the way (Mike) where is he from?

[Gary Lewis]

Looks like you had a good time, Gary!

This guy you met along the way (Mike) where is he from?

John - Thanks! We did have a blast.

Chris - Yep, sure did. And Mike is from Brazoria, TX. That's pretty much dead center for where Nicholas came ashore. Last I heard from Mike was that he had some limbs and fencing down but not too much damage.

And, speaking of damage, Big Blue didn't come out unscathed. As said, we did hit the rocks a few times, and here's a few pics to prove it. Nothing substantial, but this shows why you want lots of clearance.

First, the front diff:

And the rear diff:

Then the trailer hitch, which won't be a problem in the future with the new bumper as the trailer hitch will be in it.

As for the coolant leak, it isn't just the coolant reservoir. Not sure where the problem is, but I'll have to find it. Hopefully it is just a hose clamp.

[grumpin]

John - Thanks! We did have a blast.

Chris - Yep, sure did. And Mike is from Brazoria, TX. That's pretty much dead center for where Nicholas came ashore. Last I heard from Mike was that he had some limbs and fencing down but not too much damage.

And, speaking of damage, Big Blue didn't come out unscathed. As said, we did hit the rocks a few times, and here's a few pics to prove it. Nothing substantial, but this shows why you want lots of clearance.

First, the front diff:

And the rear diff:

Then the trailer hitch, which won't be a problem in the future with the new bumper as the trailer hitch will be in it.

As for the coolant leak, it isn't just the coolant reservoir. Not sure where the problem is, but I'll have to find it. Hopefully it is just a hose clamp.

Fantastic! Makes me want to go there!

[Sac79]

John - Thanks! We did have a blast.

Chris - Yep, sure did. And Mike is from Brazoria, TX. That's pretty much dead center for where Nicholas came ashore. Last I heard from Mike was that he had some limbs and fencing down but not too much damage.

And, speaking of damage, Big Blue didn't come out unscathed. As said, we did hit the rocks a few times, and here's a few pics to prove it. Nothing substantial, but this shows why you want lots of clearance.

First, the front diff:

And the rear diff:

Then the trailer hitch, which won't be a problem in the future with the new bumper as the trailer hitch will be in it.

As for the coolant leak, it isn't just the coolant reservoir. Not sure where the problem is, but I'll have to find it. Hopefully it is just a hose clamp.

Yikes! If BB got those marks on the trails, Eddy would definitely be worse for wear, or still hung up on a trail somewhere! I think the Unimog is a better idea...

Sure looks like a great trip though, when is your next one Gary?

[Gary Lewis]

Yikes! If BB got those marks on the trails, Eddy would definitely be worse for wear, or still hung up on a trail somewhere! I think the Unimog is a better idea...

Sure looks like a great trip though, when is your next one Gary?

That's one of the reasons I posted those pics, Rob. I wanted you to see that ground clearance is a requirement, and when you air down to ease the impact on the truck on rough roads, you decrease the clearance even more. But it is really needed.

As for the next trip, I don't know. I'm hoping Janey and I can take Big Blue over into MO and/or AR and take in some of those trails, but we don't have any plans.

[Nothing Special]

Thanks, Scott.

Speaking of photos, I've been working on them to be able to share them. However, I've also discovered several ways not to do it. For one, taking two cameras, like my iPhone and a Nikon point & shoot, is a pain because the pictures are stored in two different places. And merging the two sets of files isn't easy. So it might be best to stick with one camera.

But wait, there's more! Gaia, the mapping app, has the ability to take pics from the app and show them on the map. But it seems have its own numbering scheme separate from that of the device on which the pic is shot, which makes sense because you could use several different devices to access the map and/or shot pics.

Given that, I've been struggling. But I think I'm there, so let's get this show on the road!

We stopped on the second day of driving on Monarch pass to take a break and get some ice cream. Note how clean Big Blue is.

But my brother spotted the cable car and wanted to go up, so we did:

And from the top I shot this 180 degree pano. (The railings are actually in one line.)

Before I only had time to peruse your posts. Now that I've had time to peruse them ("peruse" is a contranym, it means to look over something quickly and to study something in depth), I'm loving it even more! Thanks for bringing us along!

A "few" comments:

.... We stopped on the second day of driving on Monarch pass to take a break and get some ice cream....

But my brother spotted the cable car and wanted to go up, so we did:

Monarch Pass was a nice stop for us too, but we didn't ride up to the top.

.... We went south of Ouray on HW 550, the Million Dollar Highway, and picked up Ophir pass.

We haven't done Ophir Pass yet. We'll have to some time.

.... And here's a shot of coming down Ophir pass. Note that this is about the spot where we stopped last year to let a tour truck come down, and where I learned my passengers as well as those in the Jeep behind us were already freaking.

Those shelf roads really aren't for everyone! It is good to figure everyone's tolerance and keep it fun. Although shelf roads do seem to be an acquired taste. Lesley really didn't like them when we started out and they don't bother her anymore.

.... If I were to rate the trails on a 1 - 5 basis I'd probably rate Imogene as a 3+, with Ophir as a 2. Imogene was steep at some points, but the hardest part was in finding places to meet people. There are some parts of it that are tight.

Yeah, Imogene is a "good" place to learn how to drive shelf roads! Not that it's necessarily for beginners, but after driving it you'll have a lot of experience!

And did you choose to do any playing around in the "playground" at the top? I never have taken the time, but I recall an area where you can do a few harder climbs without having to commit to an entire harder trail. If you didn't on this trip it might be a place to flex your legs a bit on a future trip without the difficulty level of The Wall.

.... But it is what we did on that point at 13,000' that I thought was "hot". We brewed two cups of Starbucks from a Keurig and then sat on the tailgate and drank it, looking our over a vast chunk of Colorado. It is amazing what 3000 watts of AC can do.

.... The second day was a looooong day.... As shown below, we got off on Engineer Mountain Trail, or the Alpine Loop, depending on what map or signs you are reading. (The sign on the highway says "Alpine Loop" at the moment.)

I don't know for sure where I heard the name "Engineer Mountain Road" (I think it was probably in an older guide book by an author named Larry Heck). But I like it because it's not shared with anything else. Yes it's the Alpine Loop, but so is Engineer Pass, Cinnamon Pass, several other trails in the area and highway 550. So saying "Alpine Loop" doesn't narrow it down much (but if that's what the sign says it's good to keep in mind). And I've usually heard "Mineral Point" refer just to the spur trail up where you get to the fork up to Engineer Pass or over to Animas Forks.

.... But as Bob said, Engineer Mountain Trail is rough!

It can be a fun trail, but as I've said before, it's not a trail I'd suggest for anyone's first day of trail riding.

.... Things were going well until I slid off the side.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger! I'm glad your "adventure" just turned out to be a learning experience rather than an expensive (or worse) experience. It does point out that trail driving does require some different skills than driving on the road. So it's good to wade in rather slowly instead of just jumping right in the deep end.

.... But that was fortuitous in a way because it caused us to meet Mike.... So Mike brought his 4Runner around and positioned it above us and ran his winch line to the rear of the step bar on Big Blue.... After that, still wondering if he should go on, Mike asked if he could tag along. (And he did so for three days.)

There are a lot of good reasons people say you shouldn't go 'wheeling alone (with just one vehicle). Having a second vehicle (or more) opens up a lot more options. Plus it's often more fun to share good experiences. I've generally not had the opportunity to go with other vehicles, but I do like doing it when I get the opportunity, and I'd definitely suggest it over going alone.

That said, I'd still suggest going alone (carefully!) rather than staying at home!

.... So we headed up the mountain and stopped at Mineral Point. (That road was rough and later Mike said he didn't want to go back if it meant going to Mineral Point.)

Do you know what part Mike was referring to? Was it most of Engineer Mountain Road? Or just the Mineral Point spur? I can certainly believe someone not wanting to beat themselves over Engineer Mountain Road too often (although I think I might have done it 4 times in the 5 days the last time I was there).

But I don't think I've ever done the entire Mineral Point spur. Looking at your map, I think the "main" Engineer Mountain Road route follows the trail that you do not have highlighted near the Mineral Point spur. I've done that most often, and once I did the "cutoff" that you highlighted. But I don't think I ever did the dead-end spur you highlighted.

.... Next up was Engineer Pass, and here's my brother, the engineer, pointing at the sign.

That's an obligatory picture for me as well!

.... And here's the sign outside the house that we toured:

When we were there in 2000 we walked around in that house. It was in ROUGH shape! No glass in the windows, holes in the floor. We didn't stop in 2018, but it almost looked move-in-ready with the windows replaced and the exterior looking VERY weathered, but solid. I'm glad they're maintaining the history.

.... From there we headed through California Gulch and over California Pass:

What did you think of California Pass? I remember some pretty tight, steep switchbacks as you get up that. Nothing TOO terrible, but certainly requiring dropping a gear.

.... From there to the junction with Poughkeepsie Gulch and then down the gulch past Lake Como and to The Wall. No, we didn't try to tackle The Wall. First, there was a serious ~2' step that we'd have to get over in order to even get to The Wall. Then at The Wall the less difficult side on the left was cabled off. So we decided to give it a pass.

I'm glad you at least got to see it and make your own call. That trail was cabled off when we were there in 2018 as well (although we did take it in 2000).

And where was the 2' step? Was that something above The Wall you'd need to do to get down to it? Or something at the bottom before going up it? It does seem that The Wall changes quite a bit over a relatively short period of time. I know it was a LOT different in 2018 than it was in 2000, but I've heard others say "it was a lot harder (or easier) the last time I was here a year or two ago"

.... Doing it that way the road is very easy up to just south of Animas Forks. In fact, we didn't even air down until we were half way between Silverton and Animas Forks. But we did see many, many people who apparently didn't have on-board air as they didn't air down at all, and their vehicles and their heads were being pounded unmercifully. However, the drop to 15 psi smoothed out Big Blue very nicely.

Good to get more recent data on the road from Silverton to Animas Forks. I remember it being a pretty easy drive in 2000, but we didn't take it in 2018.

And yes, airing down makes all the difference in the world! If you don't have on-board air, at least drop to something like 20 and then take it easy when you get back to the highway. But if you do much of this kind of thing you'll probably get some sort of on-board air setup.

.... On the east side of Cinnamon Pass the road is much easier. This is the Alpine Loop and is billed as something that almost anyone can do. But bear in mind that the really rough section that we did on Day Two is also part of the Alpine Loop, as is the section where we slid off the side. So there are easy sections and rough sections. This is one of the easy ones.... And the road got a bit steeper, narrower, and rougher. But still not bad. It was an easy but fun climb.

That's one of the great things about the trails out there. There's something for everyone!

.... Imogene was closed for a foot race.

There's a 100 mile ultramarathon out there that I've thought a lot about trying (the "Hardrock Hundred"). In fact, in 2019 I started training for a 100 mile race, knowing that I wasn't going to go through the entire training program, but getting far enough in to know if I should actually enter one or quit thinking about it. I quit thinking about it.

.... Once we'd seen Porphyry Gulch we turned around and headed back down the mountain for the Black Bear trail. Mike had convinced us that Big Blue would be a bear to get around the first of the switchbacks, so Rick and I agreed we'd just go to the pass itself and not any farther.

I think I'm glad he convinced you. I never want to tell anyone "no you can't do that" but Black Bear in a full size truck is a big deal. It can be done, but it's sure not for everyone. I've said this before, but I'd really recommend figuring out some way to see it before committing to it in a full size truck. Maybe in a rented Jeep? Or maybe better yet, get a ride in one of the tour vehicles?

.... Here's a view of the trail off Black Bear Pass down to The Steps. Note that there is no white 4Runner in any of the pics as Mike stayed down below at the gate to the pass trail. He told me later he just knew we were going to tackle The Steps and he didn't want to be around when we did.

How far down that trail did you go? Or did you stop at the top of the pass?

So it sounds like you had fun. Do you think you'll ever go back to Ouray again? Or is it a "been there, done that" thing and time for something else next time?

[Gary Lewis]

Before I only had time to peruse your posts. Now that I've had time to peruse them ("peruse" is a contranym, it means to look over something quickly and to study something in depth), I'm loving it even more! Thanks for bringing us along!

A "few" comments:

.... We stopped on the second day of driving on Monarch pass to take a break and get some ice cream....

But my brother spotted the cable car and wanted to go up, so we did:

Monarch Pass was a nice stop for us too, but we didn't ride up to the top.

.... We went south of Ouray on HW 550, the Million Dollar Highway, and picked up Ophir pass.

We haven't done Ophir Pass yet. We'll have to some time.

.... And here's a shot of coming down Ophir pass. Note that this is about the spot where we stopped last year to let a tour truck come down, and where I learned my passengers as well as those in the Jeep behind us were already freaking.

Those shelf roads really aren't for everyone! It is good to figure everyone's tolerance and keep it fun. Although shelf roads do seem to be an acquired taste. Lesley really didn't like them when we started out and they don't bother her anymore.

.... If I were to rate the trails on a 1 - 5 basis I'd probably rate Imogene as a 3+, with Ophir as a 2. Imogene was steep at some points, but the hardest part was in finding places to meet people. There are some parts of it that are tight.

Yeah, Imogene is a "good" place to learn how to drive shelf roads! Not that it's necessarily for beginners, but after driving it you'll have a lot of experience!

And did you choose to do any playing around in the "playground" at the top? I never have taken the time, but I recall an area where you can do a few harder climbs without having to commit to an entire harder trail. If you didn't on this trip it might be a place to flex your legs a bit on a future trip without the difficulty level of The Wall.

.... But it is what we did on that point at 13,000' that I thought was "hot". We brewed two cups of Starbucks from a Keurig and then sat on the tailgate and drank it, looking our over a vast chunk of Colorado. It is amazing what 3000 watts of AC can do.

.... The second day was a looooong day.... As shown below, we got off on Engineer Mountain Trail, or the Alpine Loop, depending on what map or signs you are reading. (The sign on the highway says "Alpine Loop" at the moment.)

I don't know for sure where I heard the name "Engineer Mountain Road" (I think it was probably in an older guide book by an author named Larry Heck). But I like it because it's not shared with anything else. Yes it's the Alpine Loop, but so is Engineer Pass, Cinnamon Pass, several other trails in the area and highway 550. So saying "Alpine Loop" doesn't narrow it down much (but if that's what the sign says it's good to keep in mind). And I've usually heard "Mineral Point" refer just to the spur trail up where you get to the fork up to Engineer Pass or over to Animas Forks.

.... But as Bob said, Engineer Mountain Trail is rough!

It can be a fun trail, but as I've said before, it's not a trail I'd suggest for anyone's first day of trail riding.

.... Things were going well until I slid off the side.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger! I'm glad your "adventure" just turned out to be a learning experience rather than an expensive (or worse) experience. It does point out that trail driving does require some different skills than driving on the road. So it's good to wade in rather slowly instead of just jumping right in the deep end.

.... But that was fortuitous in a way because it caused us to meet Mike.... So Mike brought his 4Runner around and positioned it above us and ran his winch line to the rear of the step bar on Big Blue.... After that, still wondering if he should go on, Mike asked if he could tag along. (And he did so for three days.)

There are a lot of good reasons people say you shouldn't go 'wheeling alone (with just one vehicle). Having a second vehicle (or more) opens up a lot more options. Plus it's often more fun to share good experiences. I've generally not had the opportunity to go with other vehicles, but I do like doing it when I get the opportunity, and I'd definitely suggest it over going alone.

That said, I'd still suggest going alone (carefully!) rather than staying at home!

.... So we headed up the mountain and stopped at Mineral Point. (That road was rough and later Mike said he didn't want to go back if it meant going to Mineral Point.)

Do you know what part Mike was referring to? Was it most of Engineer Mountain Road? Or just the Mineral Point spur? I can certainly believe someone not wanting to beat themselves over Engineer Mountain Road too often (although I think I might have done it 4 times in the 5 days the last time I was there).

But I don't think I've ever done the entire Mineral Point spur. Looking at your map, I think the "main" Engineer Mountain Road route follows the trail that you do not have highlighted near the Mineral Point spur. I've done that most often, and once I did the "cutoff" that you highlighted. But I don't think I ever did the dead-end spur you highlighted.

.... Next up was Engineer Pass, and here's my brother, the engineer, pointing at the sign.

That's an obligatory picture for me as well!

.... And here's the sign outside the house that we toured:

When we were there in 2000 we walked around in that house. It was in ROUGH shape! No glass in the windows, holes in the floor. We didn't stop in 2018, but it almost looked move-in-ready with the windows replaced and the exterior looking VERY weathered, but solid. I'm glad they're maintaining the history.

.... From there we headed through California Gulch and over California Pass:

What did you think of California Pass? I remember some pretty tight, steep switchbacks as you get up that. Nothing TOO terrible, but certainly requiring dropping a gear.

.... From there to the junction with Poughkeepsie Gulch and then down the gulch past Lake Como and to The Wall. No, we didn't try to tackle The Wall. First, there was a serious ~2' step that we'd have to get over in order to even get to The Wall. Then at The Wall the less difficult side on the left was cabled off. So we decided to give it a pass.

I'm glad you at least got to see it and make your own call. That trail was cabled off when we were there in 2018 as well (although we did take it in 2000).

And where was the 2' step? Was that something above The Wall you'd need to do to get down to it? Or something at the bottom before going up it? It does seem that The Wall changes quite a bit over a relatively short period of time. I know it was a LOT different in 2018 than it was in 2000, but I've heard others say "it was a lot harder (or easier) the last time I was here a year or two ago"

.... Doing it that way the road is very easy up to just south of Animas Forks. In fact, we didn't even air down until we were half way between Silverton and Animas Forks. But we did see many, many people who apparently didn't have on-board air as they didn't air down at all, and their vehicles and their heads were being pounded unmercifully. However, the drop to 15 psi smoothed out Big Blue very nicely.

Good to get more recent data on the road from Silverton to Animas Forks. I remember it being a pretty easy drive in 2000, but we didn't take it in 2018.

And yes, airing down makes all the difference in the world! If you don't have on-board air, at least drop to something like 20 and then take it easy when you get back to the highway. But if you do much of this kind of thing you'll probably get some sort of on-board air setup.

.... On the east side of Cinnamon Pass the road is much easier. This is the Alpine Loop and is billed as something that almost anyone can do. But bear in mind that the really rough section that we did on Day Two is also part of the Alpine Loop, as is the section where we slid off the side. So there are easy sections and rough sections. This is one of the easy ones.... And the road got a bit steeper, narrower, and rougher. But still not bad. It was an easy but fun climb.

That's one of the great things about the trails out there. There's something for everyone!

.... Imogene was closed for a foot race.

There's a 100 mile ultramarathon out there that I've thought a lot about trying (the "Hardrock Hundred"). In fact, in 2019 I started training for a 100 mile race, knowing that I wasn't going to go through the entire training program, but getting far enough in to know if I should actually enter one or quit thinking about it. I quit thinking about it.

.... Once we'd seen Porphyry Gulch we turned around and headed back down the mountain for the Black Bear trail. Mike had convinced us that Big Blue would be a bear to get around the first of the switchbacks, so Rick and I agreed we'd just go to the pass itself and not any farther.

I think I'm glad he convinced you. I never want to tell anyone "no you can't do that" but Black Bear in a full size truck is a big deal. It can be done, but it's sure not for everyone. I've said this before, but I'd really recommend figuring out some way to see it before committing to it in a full size truck. Maybe in a rented Jeep? Or maybe better yet, get a ride in one of the tour vehicles?

.... Here's a view of the trail off Black Bear Pass down to The Steps. Note that there is no white 4Runner in any of the pics as Mike stayed down below at the gate to the pass trail. He told me later he just knew we were going to tackle The Steps and he didn't want to be around when we did.

How far down that trail did you go? Or did you stop at the top of the pass?

So it sounds like you had fun. Do you think you'll ever go back to Ouray again? Or is it a "been there, done that" thing and time for something else next time?

Interesting! I didn't know that "peruse" is a contranym. I've only used it in the "in depth" meaning, but now that I look at the definition I see that it is both.

I've been over Monarch bunches of times, but have never even considered riding the cable car to the top. Not sure I've even thought about it. But Rick wanted to so we did, and it kind of set the tone for the trip - we were there to have fun.

As for Ophir, I've done it three times now, with two in the last year. Thirty years ago the shale moved on us and freaked Janey and our daughter Holly, but Bret and I loved it. Now the shale doesn't really move much so it is just a wide road w/o a guard rail - much like the vast majority of the Million Dollar Highway.

On Imogene we learned about switchbacks and tight turns. But we didn't try the "playground" at the top. The place was pretty busy and we were looking forward to the cup of coffee. Maybe next time, and to answer the later question, I hope there will be a next time. In fact, the grandtwins have read through this thread and I got a text from my daughter just now saying "The kids seemed really excited about off-roading with you, Dad." So Janey and I are planning to take them places around here, and one day I hope to take them back to Ouray.

Yes, I think the term "Alpine Loop" is misleading given its length and widely varying trail conditions. As for Mineral Point, we were very confused about where it is or where we were. But the sign said "Mineral Point" in spite of us not having taken a spur. We were off of the trail I'd laid out on Gaia, but we were on the trail Mike had laid out on Gaia.

But I didn't think the trail at Mineral Point was that bad. So I think Mike was referring to that section of Engineer Mountain Trail closer to 550, as shown in my pic. And I don't blame him for not wanting to go back. We made it fine, but it was so rough that I'd rather go another way. (I've sent Mike a link to this thread so he may read this and text me a comment.)

And speaking of Mike, finding him was such a blessing in many ways. First, in getting us unstuck. Second, in finding a good cafe for breakfast in Ouray. But more importantly, to have made such a good friend. Having him along made it more enjoyable as well as safer since we had the radios and could usually reach each other if needed.

But I wouldn't hesitate to run the trails around Ouray alone. There was enough traffic that someone would help you if you had a problem, although you might have to wait a bit in some places. For instance, there was no one at The Wall or on the south end of Poughkeepsie Gulch. Nada. So if you broke down there you would have to hike up to the trail between California and Hurricane passes. And that is a HIKE!

As for the 2' step, it was in the trail about 100 yards south of The Wall. We'd made some really tight turns and steep climbs to get there. In fact, at one point Mike's RF tire was 1' off the ground and spinning in the air so he had to engage his front locker to pull through. (Oddly enough, Big Blue came through there w/o locking the front diff.) But when we found that step we turned them off and walked up. We knew we didn't want to tackle that as it would be really hard on the equipment - if even possible.

The house in Animas Forks has been "improved" quite a bit on the first floor. Glass back in the windows and holes in the floor fixed. But there are rodents living on the 2nd floor as there is evidence everywhere. So it looks good from the outside, but stinks on the inside.

As for Black Bear, we didn't go farther than the pass. But the gentleman that was there with his drone told me today that he's going to edit his video just for me so I can post it here, and maybe we'll see more of the trail down to The Steps. His note said "Wow, that was some descent. I can see why they call it the most dangerous pass in Colorado." I'm happy we didn't try it. Maybe another time in another vehicle or on one of the tours. And I do plan to go back.

Last, a 100 mile ultramarathon?!?! Wow! That would be awesome! I can see that the training would be beneficial. But that is far, FAR beyond anything I would ever have considered.

[Nothing Special]

.... I hope there will be a next time. In fact, the grandtwins have read through this thread and I got a text from my daughter just now saying "The kids seemed really excited about off-roading with you, Dad." So Janey and I are planning to take them places around here, and one day I hope to take them back to Ouray.

Good! Especially as I get older, sharing things like that with my kids is often the best part. I don't have grandkids yet and I'm not trying to rush anything (both of my sons got married in the last year, one of them last Sunday!). But I certainly expect that sharing that with grandkids will be great too.

.... So I think Mike was referring to that section of Engineer Mountain Trail closer to 550, as shown in my pic. And I don't blame him for not wanting to go back. We made it fine, but it was so rough that I'd rather go another way.

Yeah, I certainly can see that.

.... there was no one at The Wall...

That surprises me! Every time I've been there there's been at least a few people. It's always been a pretty good place to spectate, even if you weren't going to drive it. But then again, I've only been there in July. Maybe by September either there are fewer people, or maybe more of the people that are there are more Alpine Loop people that Poughkeepsie Gulch people.

.... As for the 2' step, it was in the trail about 100 yards south of The Wall. We'd made some really tight turns and steep climbs to get there. In fact, at one point Mike's RF tire was 1' off the ground and spinning in the air so he had to engage his front locker to pull through. (Oddly enough, Big Blue came through there w/o locking the front diff.) But when we found that step we turned them off and walked up. We knew we didn't want to tackle that as it would be really hard on the equipment - if even possible.

I'm not sure I know where you are talking about. South of The Wall is farther up Poughkeepsie Gulch in elevation (closer to Lake Como and the passes). I know there's one "playground" a little up hill from The Wall that freaked me out a bit the first time I was on Poughkeepsie (driving down it in 2000). But I don't recall any big steps on it. But as I noted above, the trail does change over time, so maybe something eroded out.

And by the way, did you take a look at the upper (south) end of the bypass? I'm curious what you might think about the switchbacks at the top for a full-size truck. (As I noted in earlier threads, the bypass isn't just a dirt road.)

.... Last, a 100 mile ultramarathon?!?! Wow! That would be awesome! I can see that the training would be beneficial. But that is far, FAR beyond anything I would ever have considered.

I'm a distance runner, but typically I run about 3 miles, and only rarely over 5. But I did run a marathon once, and when I heard of the Hardrock Hundred I was really intrigued. That seems like something I'd really like to have done (although maybe not necessarily like to do!). So I'd been thinking about it for a long time. I finally decided it was time to stop thinking about it and either do it or give it up. So I tested myself in 2019. I'm convinced that physically and mentally I could have completed the training program and run a 100 mile race. But I was already up to 8 hours / week running, and I just couldn't make that much time without taking it from places I didn't want to take it. And finishing the program would've brought it to 16 hours / week. Plus the actual race I was thinking about entering (the Leadville Trails 100) has check points at certain mileposts, and if you don't make it by a certain time you aren't allowed to continue. Looking at the pace I could maintain and trying to realistically judge how much the altitude and hills would slow me down, I thought it was pretty likely that I'd time out at the 40 mile point. For those two reasons I went back to 3 - 5 miles.

[Gary Lewis]

.... I hope there will be a next time. In fact, the grandtwins have read through this thread and I got a text from my daughter just now saying "The kids seemed really excited about off-roading with you, Dad." So Janey and I are planning to take them places around here, and one day I hope to take them back to Ouray.

Good! Especially as I get older, sharing things like that with my kids is often the best part. I don't have grandkids yet and I'm not trying to rush anything (both of my sons got married in the last year, one of them last Sunday!). But I certainly expect that sharing that with grandkids will be great too.

.... So I think Mike was referring to that section of Engineer Mountain Trail closer to 550, as shown in my pic. And I don't blame him for not wanting to go back. We made it fine, but it was so rough that I'd rather go another way.

Yeah, I certainly can see that.

.... there was no one at The Wall...

That surprises me! Every time I've been there there's been at least a few people. It's always been a pretty good place to spectate, even if you weren't going to drive it. But then again, I've only been there in July. Maybe by September either there are fewer people, or maybe more of the people that are there are more Alpine Loop people that Poughkeepsie Gulch people.

.... As for the 2' step, it was in the trail about 100 yards south of The Wall. We'd made some really tight turns and steep climbs to get there. In fact, at one point Mike's RF tire was 1' off the ground and spinning in the air so he had to engage his front locker to pull through. (Oddly enough, Big Blue came through there w/o locking the front diff.) But when we found that step we turned them off and walked up. We knew we didn't want to tackle that as it would be really hard on the equipment - if even possible.

I'm not sure I know where you are talking about. South of The Wall is farther up Poughkeepsie Gulch in elevation (closer to Lake Como and the passes). I know there's one "playground" a little up hill from The Wall that freaked me out a bit the first time I was on Poughkeepsie (driving down it in 2000). But I don't recall any big steps on it. But as I noted above, the trail does change over time, so maybe something eroded out.

And by the way, did you take a look at the upper (south) end of the bypass? I'm curious what you might think about the switchbacks at the top for a full-size truck. (As I noted in earlier threads, the bypass isn't just a dirt road.)

.... Last, a 100 mile ultramarathon?!?! Wow! That would be awesome! I can see that the training would be beneficial. But that is far, FAR beyond anything I would ever have considered.

I'm a distance runner, but typically I run about 3 miles, and only rarely over 5. But I did run a marathon once, and when I heard of the Hardrock Hundred I was really intrigued. That seems like something I'd really like to have done (although maybe not necessarily like to do!). So I'd been thinking about it for a long time. I finally decided it was time to stop thinking about it and either do it or give it up. So I tested myself in 2019. I'm convinced that physically and mentally I could have completed the training program and run a 100 mile race. But I was already up to 8 hours / week running, and I just couldn't make that much time without taking it from places I didn't want to take it. And finishing the program would've brought it to 16 hours / week. Plus the actual race I was thinking about entering (the Leadville Trails 100) has check points at certain mileposts, and if you don't make it by a certain time you aren't allowed to continue. Looking at the pace I could maintain and trying to realistically judge how much the altitude and hills would slow me down, I thought it was pretty likely that I'd time out at the 40 mile point. For those two reasons I went back to 3 - 5 miles.

First, before I forget again, thanks for all of the advice on getting ready as well as where to go. That was a huge help, and my brother and I talked about that very thing. THANKS!

As for doing things with family, that's the best. I'm really looking forward getting my grandkids involved, although I'm not quite sure how that is going to work out since their parents are going to be the squeamish ones. So we will see what they allow. And hopefully we can get the whole family together to do some offroading. We'll just rent some Jeeps or side-by-sides.

As for The Wall being vacant, we were surprised as there were people about elsewhere. But, as I think about it the mix of people was probably different in Sept than in July. We had about 50% side-by-sides, most of which appeared to have been rented, 25% Jeeps, half of which were rented, and then the rest made up of people on bicycles, motorcycles, and other vehicles. So I'm guessing that at least half of the vehicles were rented and those people weren't ready to attempt something like The Wall.

Having said that, we parked next to this bad boy many nights at the hotel, but never saw it on the trails. However, they told us they were going to do Black Bear & Imogene the day we did Ophir & Imogene. So surely they were testing the thing out as they trailered it there.

As for the step and the bypass, I think this is accurate. We didn't go down the bypass, but the switchbacks on the part we did go on were tight and steep, although short. As said, Mike had to engage his front locker at one point. We didn't, although we may have taken a different line.

Considering the running, I'm not a runner. Did it in track in HS, but didn't enjoy it at all. So my hat is off to you in being able to do 3 - 5 miles. And there's no way I'd give up that much time in training. But I'm in awe of those who do.