SBF V-Belt to Serpentine Drive Swap - Questions

[Rembrant]

Gentlemen,

I'm contemplating swapping in a serpentine belt drive system on my 1984 302, and this has brought up some questions in my mind that I need to sort out before I even think about doing it. I dropped by the junkyard this morning and found two Bricknose trucks with 302's and complete serpentine systems still intact. So, I know this would necessitate changing out the water pump and timing cover, and I'm OK with that. It would probably be a good opportunity to do a 3G alternator swap. Since the water pump is reverse rotation, I guess that means I'd also have to get the radiator fan and thermal clutch as well? What about the AC compressor...can I buy/order a Bricknose era AC compressor and install it with the 1986 AC lines and everything I have set aside now? I assume I could simply delete the smog pump and use a shorter serpentine belt? Would I want to grab the alternator wiring harness and connections from this truck, or should I buy new (if available).

The back story here is that I'm thinking about aftermarket EFI, and that got me thinking that maybe my original 40amp alternator would have to go...which got me thinking of doing a serpentine swap...lol, so I'm just trying to make sense of it all. They are all topics that I have largely ignored, so I'm as green as grass on all of the above.

I'll start a separate thread on the potential EFI swap as I feel that is an entirely different topic and is independent of the serpentine swap.

 

[85lebaront2]

None of the AC lines will connect from Bull to Brick. If you are seriously considering the update, the underhood HVAC case openings and attachment points did not change from 1980-1996/7 so a later underhood portion will fit, vacuum line routing and wiring is different in that the wiring is moved to the top of the housing next to the blower. 1994 up trucks had R134a as a factory charge, if you can get an entire AC system from one of those, everything will fit, but the condenser mountings will have to be adapted.

I can give you more information as needed. The inside duct work on the firewall will also swap and eliminate the plastic "hinge" in favor of a pivoted door. Vacuum functions are the same.

[Rembrant]

None of the AC lines will connect from Bull to Brick. If you are seriously considering the update, the underhood HVAC case openings and attachment points did not change from 1980-1996/7 so a later underhood portion will fit, vacuum line routing and wiring is different in that the wiring is moved to the top of the housing next to the blower. 1994 up trucks had R134a as a factory charge, if you can get an entire AC system from one of those, everything will fit, but the condenser mountings will have to be adapted.

I can give you more information as needed. The inside duct work on the firewall will also swap and eliminate the plastic "hinge" in favor of a pivoted door. Vacuum functions are the same.

Thank you sir. These issues may very well put the brakes on this idea...we will see. Finding an 80-96 truck around here with AC is not easy. Of the 10 or so trucks I looked at this morning, only 2 had AC, and both were Bricknose trucks, an 88 and a 90 (I think). I don't know how easy it would be to remove the necessary parts from these trucks, and I already have all of the Bullnose stuff purchased already (last year).

 

[Whisler]

None of the AC lines will connect from Bull to Brick. If you are seriously considering the update, the underhood HVAC case openings and attachment points did not change from 1980-1996/7 so a later underhood portion will fit, vacuum line routing and wiring is different in that the wiring is moved to the top of the housing next to the blower. 1994 up trucks had R134a as a factory charge, if you can get an entire AC system from one of those, everything will fit, but the condenser mountings will have to be adapted.

I can give you more information as needed. The inside duct work on the firewall will also swap and eliminate the plastic "hinge" in favor of a pivoted door. Vacuum functions are the same.

Thank you sir. These issues may very well put the brakes on this idea...we will see. Finding an 80-96 truck around here with AC is not easy. Of the 10 or so trucks I looked at this morning, only 2 had AC, and both were Bricknose trucks, an 88 and a 90 (I think). I don't know how easy it would be to remove the necessary parts from these trucks, and I already have all of the Bullnose stuff purchased already (last year).

If you go forward I have a fan and clutch from my '89 302 that you can have for cost of shipping and the fan is already painted up pretty, lol.

[85lebaront2]

None of the AC lines will connect from Bull to Brick. If you are seriously considering the update, the underhood HVAC case openings and attachment points did not change from 1980-1996/7 so a later underhood portion will fit, vacuum line routing and wiring is different in that the wiring is moved to the top of the housing next to the blower. 1994 up trucks had R134a as a factory charge, if you can get an entire AC system from one of those, everything will fit, but the condenser mountings will have to be adapted.

I can give you more information as needed. The inside duct work on the firewall will also swap and eliminate the plastic "hinge" in favor of a pivoted door. Vacuum functions are the same.

Thank you sir. These issues may very well put the brakes on this idea...we will see. Finding an 80-96 truck around here with AC is not easy. Of the 10 or so trucks I looked at this morning, only 2 had AC, and both were Bricknose trucks, an 88 and a 90 (I think). I don't know how easy it would be to remove the necessary parts from these trucks, and I already have all of the Bullnose stuff purchased already (last year).

It is no harder than removing it from your truck, all the attaching points are the same. If you get the inside distribution housing you will have all the improvements.

[Rembrant]

It is no harder than removing it from your truck, all the attaching points are the same. If you get the inside distribution housing you will have all the improvements.

The same attachment points, yes...I get that part, it's just that it's much harder to work on trucks at the junkyard as many of them are parked too close together, and access is not always the best on both sides...and then everything is rusted into oblivion...

However...

So if I got the outside AC housing (I mean the whole section on the engine side of the firewall) from a 1988 or 1990 truck, would it bolt up and work with my 1980-1986 internal parts (inside the cab)?

I'm going out to get a better look at these trucks this morning, and was just curious if I did want to swap over to that serpentine system, and thus swap in the serpentine drive AC compressor, could I then use some of the engine side AC housing to work with it?

I'll keep my eyes open for a later system, but so far this is all I have access to.

Oh, and what year trucks would have a 3G alternator? I'd need a harness to go with one I assume. I'll check those today as well.

[Gary Lewis]

It is no harder than removing it from your truck, all the attaching points are the same. If you get the inside distribution housing you will have all the improvements.

The same attachment points, yes...I get that part, it's just that it's much harder to work on trucks at the junkyard as many of them are parked too close together, and access is not always the best on both sides...and then everything is rusted into oblivion...

However...

So if I got the outside AC housing (I mean the whole section on the engine side of the firewall) from a 1988 or 1990 truck, would it bolt up and work with my 1980-1986 internal parts (inside the cab)?

I'm going out to get a better look at these trucks this morning, and was just curious if I did want to swap over to that serpentine system, and thus swap in the serpentine drive AC compressor, could I then use some of the engine side AC housing to work with it?

I'll keep my eyes open for a later system, but so far this is all I have access to.

Oh, and what year trucks would have a 3G alternator? I'd need a harness to go with one I assume. I'll check those today as well.

I put a 1990 A/C system in Big Blue, but used the '85 system in the cab. And it bolted right in with a minor exception - the vacuum lines run slightly differently in the two systems, but that's an easy fix. And you use the later blower motor.

You can read about it in Big Blue's Transformation thread starting about here.

[Rembrant]

I put a 1990 A/C system in Big Blue, but used the '85 system in the cab. And it bolted right in with a minor exception - the vacuum lines run slightly differently in the two systems, but that's an easy fix. And you use the later blower motor.

You can read about it in Big Blue's Transformation thread starting about here.

Ok, next question...

I assume the answer is yes, but can you have custom AC lines made up?

What if I went with a system like this one below with the "Sanden style" AC compressor, could I have lines made up to work with the 1986 evaporator and condenser?

https://www.cvfracing.com/ford-289-302-351w-serpentine-conversion-kit-alternator-power-steering-a-c/

The "1 wire Ford alternator", I assume is a 3G?

I know the system is expensive, but it would kill a few birds with one stone, and allow me to keep my stock rotation water pump.

Thoughts, good or bad?

[85lebaront2]

Ok, next question...

I assume the answer is yes, but can you have custom AC lines made up?

What if I went with a system like this one below with the "Sanden style" AC compressor, could I have lines made up to work with the 1986 evaporator and condenser?

https://www.cvfracing.com/ford-289-302-351w-serpentine-conversion-kit-alternator-power-steering-a-c/

The "1 wire Ford alternator", I assume is a 3G?

I know the system is expensive, but it would kill a few birds with one stone, and allow me to keep my stock rotation water pump.

Thoughts, good or bad?

Yes, Murray used to sell hoses and fittings to make them up. Some shops that do hydraulic work can make custom hoses. Another source a friend used on his custom 1956 Dodge truck was: https://www.vintageair.com/ They make some very nice pieces. He used a heater/AC combination unit that we put where the glove box would have gone. Door was left for appearance and access for servicing, Had floor, defrost, and AC vents. No fresh air provision.

Lines were sold as a measure of diameter and length and there were lots of fitting options. We used a penetration plate where the lines screwed on on each side so there was no chance of chaffing.

[myrl883]

Yes, Murray used to sell hoses and fittings to make them up. Some shops that do hydraulic work can make custom hoses. Another source a friend used on his custom 1956 Dodge truck was: https://www.vintageair.com/ They make some very nice pieces. He used a heater/AC combination unit that we put where the glove box would have gone. Door was left for appearance and access for servicing, Had floor, defrost, and AC vents. No fresh air provision.

Lines were sold as a measure of diameter and length and there were lots of fitting options. We used a penetration plate where the lines screwed on on each side so there was no chance of chaffing.

You have to change the water pump, but not the timing cover. Fan and clutch need to be from reverse rotation vehicle as well.

I used all of the left side components from a bricknose when I converted my '81 to serpentine, including the a/c compressor and hoses. The fuel pump is a tight fit, and I had to relieve the p/s bracket a bit to clear it. If you have electric fuel pump this isn't a worry. My 3G alternator bracket is from my '94 roller donor. Everything plays well together.