Planning For Big Blue's Trip To Ouray

[Gary Lewis]

Good idea. I have plenty of those, so will put one in.

Ok, I've started laying out routes using Gaia. So far I just have Day 1 and Day 2 in Gaia, but would like your thoughts on them, Bob. (And others as well.)

 

Day 1 is exactly what we did last fall in the Jeep we rented and should give us a good way to break into it. It is a total of 85 miles and goes over Last Dollar Road and into Telluride for lunch, then back out and over Ophir Pass. If we have plenty of time when we hit 550 we could go through Silverton and then some of those trails back to 550, or just head north to Ouray.

 

 

Day 2 is the Alpine Loop but coming back over Engineer Pass. I know you said that Cinnamon Pass was boring, Bob, but I think I'd like to do Engineer Pass. Or, is Corkscrew Gulch the better trail?

 

[Nothing Special]

Ok, I've started laying out routes using Gaia. So far I just have Day 1 and Day 2 in Gaia, but would like your thoughts on them, Bob. (And others as well.)

 

Day 1 is exactly what we did last fall in the Jeep we rented and should give us a good way to break into it. It is a total of 85 miles and goes over Last Dollar Road and into Telluride for lunch, then back out and over Ophir Pass. If we have plenty of time when we hit 550 we could go through Silverton and then some of those trails back to 550, or just head north to Ouray.

I've never done any of those trails so I can't really comment. But you know most of what you're getting into! And everything out there is pretty great!

Day 2 is the Alpine Loop but coming back over Engineer Pass. I know you said that Cinnamon Pass was boring, Bob, but I think I'd like to do Engineer Pass. Or, is Corkscrew Gulch the better trail?

I would DEFINITELY suggest doing Engineer Pass. Getting up on top of any of the passes gets you the best views though, so you definitely want to do that!If it was me I'd go up Engineer and/or Cinnamon from the Silverton side and then come back down the same side. Corkscrew Gulch would be one of the options for how to get out. (It's probably an easier trail than Engineer Mountain Road, but more fun and challenging than most of the roads/trails down to Silverton.)But it's not me. Lots of people do the Alpine Loop and love it, so if you want to do the Alpine Loop you are in good company. From what I've seen the "other" side of Cinnamon Pass is a nice, very scenic drive. The only thing I can say "against" it is that there are a lot of nice, very scenic drives out there and we didn't find Cinnamon Pass to be as fun as some of the others.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I've started laying out routes using Gaia. So far I just have Day 1 and Day 2 in Gaia, but would like your thoughts on them, Bob. (And others as well.)

 

Day 1 is exactly what we did last fall in the Jeep we rented and should give us a good way to break into it. It is a total of 85 miles and goes over Last Dollar Road and into Telluride for lunch, then back out and over Ophir Pass. If we have plenty of time when we hit 550 we could go through Silverton and then some of those trails back to 550, or just head north to Ouray.

I've never done any of those trails so I can't really comment. But you know most of what you're getting into! And everything out there is pretty great!

Day 2 is the Alpine Loop but coming back over Engineer Pass. I know you said that Cinnamon Pass was boring, Bob, but I think I'd like to do Engineer Pass. Or, is Corkscrew Gulch the better trail?

I would DEFINITELY suggest doing Engineer Pass. Getting up on top of any of the passes gets you the best views though, so you definitely want to do that!If it was me I'd go up Engineer and/or Cinnamon from the Silverton side and then come back down the same side. Corkscrew Gulch would be one of the options for how to get out. (It's probably an easier trail than Engineer Mountain Road, but more fun and challenging than most of the roads/trails down to Silverton.)But it's not me. Lots of people do the Alpine Loop and love it, so if you want to do the Alpine Loop you are in good company. From what I've seen the "other" side of Cinnamon Pass is a nice, very scenic drive. The only thing I can say "against" it is that there are a lot of nice, very scenic drives out there and we didn't find Cinnamon Pass to be as fun as some of the others.

Bob - Thanks! I definitely was asking for that input.Saying it another way, you think the Alpine Loop beyond Cinnamon Pass and back to Engineer Pass is too easy, meaning not enough fun. We will have had E.A.S.Y. on Day 1 with Last Dollar Road, so we probably don't want something that will be a dawdle on Day 2. But, go up those two passes from the Silverton side, at some point, and come back down.On a tangent, I'm using Gaia as well as your maps and a National Geographic Telluride/Silverton/Ouray/Lake City paper map to plan this. And I'm getting lost as I can't easily find Corkscrew Gulch or Cinnamon Pass on Gaia when I'm planning. But I just discovered that I can type in "Corkscrew Gulch" and someone has saved the trail to the public maps so that trail pops up. So, if I were to bring up the various trails on the map and print them I could lay them out around me and it would make it MUCH easier. That would give me the overall perspective I need - I think.My hope in all of this is that we get a basic plan set for each day that keeps us from going back over the same trails to get to where we want to go, but allows us time to explore some of the MANY side trails.So maybe this afternoon I can print off maps of some of the trails and work some more on getting the basic daily plans mapped out and come back with new plans.Thanks!

[Nothing Special]

Bob - Thanks! I definitely was asking for that input.

Saying it another way, you think the Alpine Loop beyond Cinnamon Pass and back to Engineer Pass is too easy, meaning not enough fun. We will have had E.A.S.Y. on Day 1 with Last Dollar Road, so we probably don't want something that will be a dawdle on Day 2. But, go up those two passes from the Silverton side, at some point, and come back down.

On a tangent, I'm using Gaia as well as your maps and a National Geographic Telluride/Silverton/Ouray/Lake City paper map to plan this. And I'm getting lost as I can't easily find Corkscrew Gulch or Cinnamon Pass on Gaia when I'm planning. But I just discovered that I can type in "Corkscrew Gulch" and someone has saved the trail to the public maps so that trail pops up. So, if I were to bring up the various trails on the map and print them I could lay them out around me and it would make it MUCH easier. That would give me the overall perspective I need - I think.

My hope in all of this is that we get a basic plan set for each day that keeps us from going back over the same trails to get to where we want to go, but allows us time to explore some of the MANY side trails.

So maybe this afternoon I can print off maps of some of the trails and work some more on getting the basic daily plans mapped out and come back with new plans.

Thanks!

As I said back in this thread where you were starting to think about this trip, I use two maps. One is very simple so it's easy to not get lost in the clutter as you look at the map. The sketch I made and the map you showed on page one of this thread work for that.

But those maps don't have enough detail to show you everything, so I also have a topo map for the Uncompagre National Forest. I'd really recommend having a set of maps like that, even with GPS apps. At least for me I'm old-school enough that sometimes it's just a lot easier for me to spread a paper map out and look at the big picture.

I still try to get as many of the trails I plan to do loaded onto my GPS, so I'm not saying you're going about it wrong. But as you are finding, you can't assume that all of the trails will automatically show up on your phone/GPS.

By the way, when I told Lesley about you asking about doing the Alpine Loop she asked "wouldn't that make for a really long day?" Again, I haven't done the Apline Loop, but I think she's right. It's not short, and you won't be going very fast on much of it. So if you want plenty of time for exploring, trying to do the entire Loop in one day might not be a good way to do that.

As far as not retracing your steps, I don't think that'll be entirely possible. A lot of the fun stuff is east of highway 550 and there are only four basic routes into that area: Engineer Mountain Road, Corkscrew Gulch and the two dirt roads leading up from Silverton. On our first trip we only did one of the Silverton roads and that only once. And on our second trip we didn't do those roads at all. So we end up doing Engineer Mountain Road and Corkscrew Gulch multiple times. But that's OK by us.

(I suppose adding Engineer Pass and Cinnamon Pass to Lake City gives two more in/out options. But those are long trails to a LONG highway drive back to Ouray, so not something we've ever thought about doing.)

[Gary Lewis]

As I said back in this thread where you were starting to think about this trip, I use two maps. One is very simple so it's easy to not get lost in the clutter as you look at the map. The sketch I made and the map you showed on page one of this thread work for that.

But those maps don't have enough detail to show you everything, so I also have a topo map for the Uncompagre National Forest. I'd really recommend having a set of maps like that, even with GPS apps. At least for me I'm old-school enough that sometimes it's just a lot easier for me to spread a paper map out and look at the big picture.

I still try to get as many of the trails I plan to do loaded onto my GPS, so I'm not saying you're going about it wrong. But as you are finding, you can't assume that all of the trails will automatically show up on your phone/GPS.

By the way, when I told Lesley about you asking about doing the Alpine Loop she asked "wouldn't that make for a really long day?" Again, I haven't done the Apline Loop, but I think she's right. It's not short, and you won't be going very fast on much of it. So if you want plenty of time for exploring, trying to do the entire Loop in one day might not be a good way to do that.

As far as not retracing your steps, I don't think that'll be entirely possible. A lot of the fun stuff is east of highway 550 and there are only four basic routes into that area: Engineer Mountain Road, Corkscrew Gulch and the two dirt roads leading up from Silverton. On our first trip we only did one of the Silverton roads and that only once. And on our second trip we didn't do those roads at all. So we end up doing Engineer Mountain Road and Corkscrew Gulch multiple times. But that's OK by us.

(I suppose adding Engineer Pass and Cinnamon Pass to Lake City gives two more in/out options. But those are long trails to a LONG highway drive back to Ouray, so not something we've ever thought about doing.)

Bob - I have your maps printed out as well as the Nat Geo map nearby. But even then I've found it difficult to spot the trails on Gaia. But with the recent discovery of being able to search for them on Gaia things are going to go much better, I'm sure.

My hope is that i can create an overall map with all of the trails showing and in the notes show the color code for each trail. That would make it easier for both my brother and I to get our heads around where the various trails are. (I'm almost there but he's not even started, although he has spent time up there on OHV's in years past, so has some knowledge of them.) And I intend to take printed copies of the overall map as well as the daily "plans".

Speaking of daily plans, I'll probably have several options for some of them. For instance, on Day 2 I might have Option A be what you've suggested of seeing the summit of both Engineer and Cinnamon passes and then going down Corkscrew. But Option B could be the whole of the Alpine Loop. Why? Because in the detail it shows how many miles each is, and as Lesley said that would make for a very long day. But, my brother and his family have stayed at Lake City, so it is possible he will want to go there and I want to be prepared.

I see what you are saying about routes in and out of the area east of 550. And the two roads down into Silverton don't look to be very interesting, so that leaves Engineer Mountain Road and Corkscrew Gulch as the access roads, meaning it looks like we will get very familiar with them.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I have your maps printed out as well as the Nat Geo map nearby. But even then I've found it difficult to spot the trails on Gaia. But with the recent discovery of being able to search for them on Gaia things are going to go much better, I'm sure.My hope is that i can create an overall map with all of the trails showing and in the notes show the color code for each trail. That would make it easier for both my brother and I to get our heads around where the various trails are. (I'm almost there but he's not even started, although he has spent time up there on OHV's in years past, so has some knowledge of them.) And I intend to take printed copies of the overall map as well as the daily "plans".Speaking of daily plans, I'll probably have several options for some of them. For instance, on Day 2 I might have Option A be what you've suggested of seeing the summit of both Engineer and Cinnamon passes and then going down Corkscrew. But Option B could be the whole of the Alpine Loop. Why? Because in the detail it shows how many miles each is, and as Lesley said that would make for a very long day. But, my brother and his family have stayed at Lake City, so it is possible he will want to go there and I want to be prepared.I see what you are saying about routes in and out of the area east of 550. And the two roads down into Silverton don't look to be very interesting, so that leaves Engineer Mountain Road and Corkscrew Gulch as the access roads, meaning it looks like we will get very familiar with them.

Bob - I'm making progress. But it isn't as easy as I'd hoped.

 

The main issue I've having is with the terminology, meaning what various people call what trails. For instance, you say the trail from 550 to Poughkeepsie Gulch is Engineer Mountain Road. But Gaia calls it CR18. And Alltrails calls it Mineral Creek OHV Trail.

 

But by printing out various things and laying them beside your maps I'm starting to get my head around it.

 

And there's a learning curve to Gaia. Fortunately I found the user's manual and got most of my questions answered, so things are starting to come together.

 

So, let's try this. Here's what I think you did on your Day 1 where you took in Engineer Mountain Road - Mineral Point - Animas Cutoff - Cinnamon Pass - Sherman Road - Cinnamon Pass - California Gulch - Hurricane Pass - Corkscrew Pass - Corkscrew Gulch. Except I left out Mineral Point and Sherman Road, although I can put them in pretty easily. But is this correct?

 

That's 38 miles round trip from our hotel in Ouray, and we could take all sorts of side trips from that basic route. Or, we could change Cinnamon Pass for Engineer Pass. From what you said earlier that might be better?

 

[Nothing Special]

Bob - I'm making progress. But it isn't as easy as I'd hoped.

 

The main issue I've having is with the terminology, meaning what various people call what trails. For instance, you say the trail from 550 to Poughkeepsie Gulch is Engineer Mountain Road. But Gaia calls it CR18. And Alltrails calls it Mineral Creek OHV Trail.

 

But by printing out various things and laying them beside your maps I'm starting to get my head around it.

 

And there's a learning curve to Gaia. Fortunately I found the user's manual and got most of my questions answered, so things are starting to come together.

 

So, let's try this. Here's what I think you did on your Day 1 where you took in Engineer Mountain Road - Mineral Point - Animas Cutoff - Cinnamon Pass - Sherman Road - Cinnamon Pass - California Gulch - Hurricane Pass - Corkscrew Pass - Corkscrew Gulch. Except I left out Mineral Point and Sherman Road, although I can put them in pretty easily. But is this correct?

 

That's 38 miles round trip from our hotel in Ouray, and we could take all sorts of side trips from that basic route. Or, we could change Cinnamon Pass for Engineer Pass. From what you said earlier that might be better?

 

First off, if you follow the route you have mapped you'll be in for a surprise! I don't know if it will be a good surprise or a bad surprise, but it won't be what you're expecting!Assuming you are going around the loop part clockwise, at the point where it turns pretty much due south are the words "Poughkeepsie Gulch." The trail south from there to where the spur goes east to Cinnamon Pass is Poughkeepsie Gulch. That's by far the most difficult trail in that area. I'm not saying you can't do it, but I don't think you want to do it accidentally!A safer route would be to keep going east at that point, all the way to the trail that comes north from Animas Forks (that's what I called the Animas Cutoff). If you look at my sketched map below you can either stay on the pink trail (what I call Engineer Mountain Road) or take the short green side trail (Mineral Point). Mineral Point is kind of a cool abandoned mine site if you have the time, but there's a bathroom on that section of Engineer Mountain Road. Or with just a little backtracking you can get to both. I don't think there's much difference in difficulty between those two options.When you hit the Animas Cutoff you can turn north to go to Engineer Pass (with a short side spur to Odom Point if you want). If you do you'll turn around at the top of the Pass (unless you want to head to Lake City) and come back to this point.Whether you go to Engineer Pass or not, you'll then go south to Animas Forks. Close to Animas Forks you can turn east to go to Cinnamon Pass if you choose to go there.As to whether you should do Engineer Pass, Cinnamon Pass or both, that's really up to you. As I said, the best views are from the passes (Odom Point is good too), so if you have time you might want to do both. I don't recall either trail being much worse/better than the other. I think both are pretty narrow with some pretty tight switchbacks, but they should be plenty doable in Big Blue.Then from Animas Forks go west on the trail you've marked, up California Gulch.Shortly after California Pass you'll get to where your loop catches this trail. That's the top of Poughkeepsie Gulch. If you drive a short (easy) way down Poughkeepsie you'll get to Lake Como, which is a nice place to stop for lunch, and is probably worth the detour even if it's not lunch time.If you have more time and want to see what Poughkeepsie is all about, you can go farther down it from this point, keeping in mind that you don't want to drive down anything that you aren't sure you can drive back up.The "best" (or worst) part of Poughkeepsie Gulch is the loop off to the west, near where it says "Alaska Basin" on your map. You can go down that as far as you are comfortable and will likely get to the top of "The Wall" (there is a somewhat tough section before you get to The Wall. I know Big Blue can make it down and up that, at least in the condition it's been when I've seen it. But I don't know if it would be fun for you. And again, don't do it if you don't think it will be fun). If you think you want to drive down "The Wall", first walk down and look at the trail as it heads down farther. The first section of that is kind of steep, loose and narrow. I wouldn't want you stuck between that and The Wall, not knowing if you could make it either way.Before (or instead of) going down the main part of Poughkeepsie you can also take a look at the bypass. The trail you marked does take this bypass. I only took that once, and I wasn't really thinking about how a full-size truck would fare on it. It's not a very difficult trail, but it's not a boring dirt road either. And there were some really tight turns near the top that I'm not sure a full size truck could make. But those will be right near the main trail, so if you get to that point you can walk down the bypass to see what you think.If you do go all the way down Poughkeepsie Gulch you'll come out on Engineer Mountain Road again, so turn west and head back to highway 550.If you don't go all the way down Poughkeepsie, then you'll continue on the trail you've marked, over Hurricane Pass and down Corkscrew Gulch to highway 550. That's definitely the quickest way to Ouray from the upper end of Poughkeepsie.So all of that was said assuming you were planning on going around your loop clockwise. If instead you were thinking you'd take 550 to Corkscrew Gulch and go up Corkscrew, all of what I said still stands, but in reverse.And you were saying how the different names people and maps use for the trails is hard, a couple people I've seen on YouTube had maps where Poughkeepsie Gulch was marked as Mineral Point. That will really mess you up!http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/file/n13170/OurayTrailsClose.jpg

[Nothing Special]

Bob - Thanks! I definitely was asking for that input.

Saying it another way, you think the Alpine Loop beyond Cinnamon Pass and back to Engineer Pass is too easy, meaning not enough fun. We will have had E.A.S.Y. on Day 1 with Last Dollar Road, so we probably don't want something that will be a dawdle on Day 2. But, go up those two passes from the Silverton side, at some point, and come back down....

Looking back a bit I hadn't really commented on this and I thought I should. Are the east sides of Cinnamon and Engineer Passes too easy and therefore boring? That depends on your perspective. I'm not the world's greatest rockcrawler, and my Bronco isn't the best off-road rig in the world. Not even close on either. But I've been doing this for quite a while and I'm pretty good at it. And my Bronco is a pretty capable vehicle. Lesley has been doing this with me too. So for us it was easy. But then again, on our last trip to Ouray we met a couple people in a side-by-side that had just come over Cinnamon Pass and said they had been pretty freaked out by it. So what was easy in our sight was kind of over-the-top (pun intended) for others. Compared to most trails it is pretty easy. But there are some narrow shelf sections and tight switchbacks, so I can see how people not accustomed to it could be scared.

Is it boring? Lesley thought so, but again, a lot of people drive the Alpine Loop. It remains a popular trail, so others must not find it too boring. What's the truth? It's definitely a nice, scenic trail. But there are a lot of nice scenic trails in the Ouray area. I'm not saying it's boring, or not worth doing. But from my perspective there are other trails that are more worth doing, either because they are more challenging or because the scenery is more varied.

And this is all based on driving part-way down, and then back up, the east side of Cinnamon Pass. I don't have any reason to believe it got to be more difficult, or more special scenery if I had gone farther, but I don't know that it didn't. And I haven't been on the east side of Engineer Pass, so I'm extrapolating quite a bit to lump it in with the east side of Cinnamon.

So bottom line, I don't recommend the east side of those two passes, but that's just me. There are others who would tell you something completely different, and they're not wrong either.

.... I left out Mineral Point and Sherman Road, although I can put them in pretty easily....

This is something else I meant to comment on. I did touch on Mineral Point above. I do think it's a worthwhile short detour if you are near it.

Sherman Road is another thing entirely. For starters, it's quite a ways down the east side of Cinnamon Pass. If you aren't doing the Alpine Loop it probably adds at least 4 hours to your trip. Even if you are doing the Alpine Loop it still probably adds 1 - 2 hours. And I don't know if it's worth doing. It starts below tree-line and we turned around before we got above treeline. It wasn't a particularly interesting or scenic trail on the section we were on. It might have got a lot better had we kept going, but Lesley in particular was ready to be back on the west side of Cinnamon Pass so we turned around. It also might have some great camping spots if you were doing a trip that way, but we weren't and it sounds like you aren't, at least this time, either. So no, I definitely wouldn't make Sherman Road a goal on this trip if I were you. Again, not saying it's a bad trail, just probably not worth it for you on this trip.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - Thanks! I definitely was asking for that input.

Saying it another way, you think the Alpine Loop beyond Cinnamon Pass and back to Engineer Pass is too easy, meaning not enough fun. We will have had E.A.S.Y. on Day 1 with Last Dollar Road, so we probably don't want something that will be a dawdle on Day 2. But, go up those two passes from the Silverton side, at some point, and come back down....

Looking back a bit I hadn't really commented on this and I thought I should. Are the east sides of Cinnamon and Engineer Passes too easy and therefore boring? That depends on your perspective. I'm not the world's greatest rockcrawler, and my Bronco isn't the best off-road rig in the world. Not even close on either. But I've been doing this for quite a while and I'm pretty good at it. And my Bronco is a pretty capable vehicle. Lesley has been doing this with me too. So for us it was easy. But then again, on our last trip to Ouray we met a couple people in a side-by-side that had just come over Cinnamon Pass and said they had been pretty freaked out by it. So what was easy in our sight was kind of over-the-top (pun intended) for others. Compared to most trails it is pretty easy. But there are some narrow shelf sections and tight switchbacks, so I can see how people not accustomed to it could be scared.

Is it boring? Lesley thought so, but again, a lot of people drive the Alpine Loop. It remains a popular trail, so others must not find it too boring. What's the truth? It's definitely a nice, scenic trail. But there are a lot of nice scenic trails in the Ouray area. I'm not saying it's boring, or not worth doing. But from my perspective there are other trails that are more worth doing, either because they are more challenging or because the scenery is more varied.

And this is all based on driving part-way down, and then back up, the east side of Cinnamon Pass. I don't have any reason to believe it got to be more difficult, or more special scenery if I had gone farther, but I don't know that it didn't. And I haven't been on the east side of Engineer Pass, so I'm extrapolating quite a bit to lump it in with the east side of Cinnamon.

So bottom line, I don't recommend the east side of those two passes, but that's just me. There are others who would tell you something completely different, and they're not wrong either.

.... I left out Mineral Point and Sherman Road, although I can put them in pretty easily....

This is something else I meant to comment on. I did touch on Mineral Point above. I do think it's a worthwhile short detour if you are near it.

Sherman Road is another thing entirely. For starters, it's quite a ways down the east side of Cinnamon Pass. If you aren't doing the Alpine Loop it probably adds at least 4 hours to your trip. Even if you are doing the Alpine Loop it still probably adds 1 - 2 hours. And I don't know if it's worth doing. It starts below tree-line and we turned around before we got above treeline. It wasn't a particularly interesting or scenic trail on the section we were on. It might have got a lot better had we kept going, but Lesley in particular was ready to be back on the west side of Cinnamon Pass so we turned around. It also might have some great camping spots if you were doing a trip that way, but we weren't and it sounds like you aren't, at least this time, either. So no, I definitely wouldn't make Sherman Road a goal on this trip if I were you. Again, not saying it's a bad trail, just probably not worth it for you on this trip.

Bob - Thanks for the very detailed replies. I want to think through what you said, change my maps, and see what you think.

But for the most part I understand what you are saying. Perhaps we want to save Poughkeepsie Gulch for Day 3 or Day 4 and take Animas Cutoff and California Gulch as you suggested for Day 2. (Or, maybe Day 1 as I want to talk to my bro about how easy Last Dollar is.)

Anyway, thanks! Let me get some other things done and I'll incorporate your suggestions onto maps and be back to see if I've done that right.

And, as I think about it, I may change the color codes on things. Heretofore they've been arbitrary, but if I made them green for easy, blue for moderate, yellow for more difficult, and red for hard I could then show them on an overall map of the area to help my brother and I decide what to do on any given day. And you could tell me if I've gotten them right.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - Thanks! I definitely was asking for that input.Saying it another way, you think the Alpine Loop beyond Cinnamon Pass and back to Engineer Pass is too easy, meaning not enough fun. We will have had E.A.S.Y. on Day 1 with Last Dollar Road, so we probably don't want something that will be a dawdle on Day 2. But, go up those two passes from the Silverton side, at some point, and come back down....

Looking back a bit I hadn't really commented on this and I thought I should. Are the east sides of Cinnamon and Engineer Passes too easy and therefore boring? That depends on your perspective. I'm not the world's greatest rockcrawler, and my Bronco isn't the best off-road rig in the world. Not even close on either. But I've been doing this for quite a while and I'm pretty good at it. And my Bronco is a pretty capable vehicle. Lesley has been doing this with me too. So for us it was easy. But then again, on our last trip to Ouray we met a couple people in a side-by-side that had just come over Cinnamon Pass and said they had been pretty freaked out by it. So what was easy in our sight was kind of over-the-top (pun intended) for others. Compared to most trails it is pretty easy. But there are some narrow shelf sections and tight switchbacks, so I can see how people not accustomed to it could be scared.Is it boring? Lesley thought so, but again, a lot of people drive the Alpine Loop. It remains a popular trail, so others must not find it too boring. What's the truth? It's definitely a nice, scenic trail. But there are a lot of nice scenic trails in the Ouray area. I'm not saying it's boring, or not worth doing. But from my perspective there are other trails that are more worth doing, either because they are more challenging or because the scenery is more varied.And this is all based on driving part-way down, and then back up, the east side of Cinnamon Pass. I don't have any reason to believe it got to be more difficult, or more special scenery if I had gone farther, but I don't know that it didn't. And I haven't been on the east side of Engineer Pass, so I'm extrapolating quite a bit to lump it in with the east side of Cinnamon.So bottom line, I don't recommend the east side of those two passes, but that's just me. There are others who would tell you something completely different, and they're not wrong either.

.... I left out Mineral Point and Sherman Road, although I can put them in pretty easily....

This is something else I meant to comment on. I did touch on Mineral Point above. I do think it's a worthwhile short detour if you are near it.Sherman Road is another thing entirely. For starters, it's quite a ways down the east side of Cinnamon Pass. If you aren't doing the Alpine Loop it probably adds at least 4 hours to your trip. Even if you are doing the Alpine Loop it still probably adds 1 - 2 hours. And I don't know if it's worth doing. It starts below tree-line and we turned around before we got above treeline. It wasn't a particularly interesting or scenic trail on the section we were on. It might have got a lot better had we kept going, but Lesley in particular was ready to be back on the west side of Cinnamon Pass so we turned around. It also might have some great camping spots if you were doing a trip that way, but we weren't and it sounds like you aren't, at least this time, either. So no, I definitely wouldn't make Sherman Road a goal on this trip if I were you. Again, not saying it's a bad trail, just probably not worth it for you on this trip.

Bob - I didn't get to the mapping until just now. But I did change the previous map to cut out Poughkeepsie and go down Animas Cutoff as you suggested - I think. Right?

 

I'm not saying that's what we are going to do, but I do want to get it to match your suggestions. And, I made it blue to represent a "moderate" trail, as opposed to Last Dollar Road where we found minivans. Would you agree with that as well?

 

With the side trips to Mineral Point and Engineer Pass that's 43.7 miles. Is that reasonable to do in a day? Will we have time left over? Maybe we'd want to go have a look at The Wall and see Lake Como on the way.

 

I'm thinking this might be a better Day 1 than Last Dollar Road & Ophir Pass. The only thing about that route is that Ophir has a shelf road which, from the bottom, looks dangerous. But when you get on it the thing is quite wide and there's nothing the least bit tough or challenging. You just drive slowly and stay on the trail and there are no switchbacks. So I'm now leaning to the route below as Day 1 as from what you've said it'll give more challenge than Ophir.

 

Thoughts?