BigDav782 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Morning all, I've been slowly working my way through the front wheel assemblies on my '85 F150 with 4wd, with the ultimate goal of eliminating the very loud grinding noise that won't seem to go away. I've replaced wheel bearings on both sides, u-joints on both sides (except the inner one on the passenger side, which can't do without pulling the front diff), and replaced both u-joints on my driveshaft, all to no avail. The only thing I an come up with now is perhaps the axle/spindle bearing(s)? Or, perhaps improper adjustment on the wheel bearings when I replaced them, or (unlikely) a bad set of new wheel bearings? Notes on the sound: -Starts at about 7mph (if it was brake related, wouldn't it be at all speeds?) -No change if forward or reverse, 4wd or 2wd, turning or going straight -No change if put transmission in neutral when coasting -Very consistent with speed -Coming from the front, seems to be more on the drivers side I'd prefer not to go back into the front hubs if I don't need to, which is why I'm asking for your thoughts first. Thanks much! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I don't blame you on not wanting to go back into the hubs. Hard to imagine what it might be to start at 7 MPH and not do it below that. I was going to suggest it might be a rock between the brake rotor and backing plate, but that should do it at all speeds. Have you tried jacking the front wheels up, one at a time, and rotating them? If you don't have it in 4wd on the t-case and don't have the hubs locked in the drive axles shouldn't rotate, so it shouldn't be those bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDav782 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 I don't blame you on not wanting to go back into the hubs. Hard to imagine what it might be to start at 7 MPH and not do it below that. I was going to suggest it might be a rock between the brake rotor and backing plate, but that should do it at all speeds. Have you tried jacking the front wheels up, one at a time, and rotating them? If you don't have it in 4wd on the t-case and don't have the hubs locked in the drive axles shouldn't rotate, so it shouldn't be those bearings. Thanks Gary. I did try jacking up the driver front wheel yesterday and rotating it - couldn't get it fast enough to make the sound, as it rubbed on the brakes after about 3/4 of a turn. Even extra elbow grease and bacon power couldn't get it fast enough to power through that brake rub and spin them faster. I didn't even think about the fact that the axle shouldn't be spinning if not in 4WD and hubs locked, so loud noise isn't likely that bearing. Seems hard for me to believe that a slight adjustment problem on the wheel bearings would cause this noise - I closely followed the manual on how to do it (50 ft-lbs while rotating wheel, then back it off 45 degrees). Also hard for me to believe it's bad bearing(s) from the start - they were new Timken bearings from RockAuto, and I greased them with a wheel bearing grease attachment thing. Haven't driven it more than 200 miles since then. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Thanks Gary. I did try jacking up the driver front wheel yesterday and rotating it - couldn't get it fast enough to make the sound, as it rubbed on the brakes after about 3/4 of a turn. Even extra elbow grease and bacon power couldn't get it fast enough to power through that brake rub and spin them faster. I didn't even think about the fact that the axle shouldn't be spinning if not in 4WD and hubs locked, so loud noise isn't likely that bearing. Seems hard for me to believe that a slight adjustment problem on the wheel bearings would cause this noise - I closely followed the manual on how to do it (50 ft-lbs while rotating wheel, then back it off 45 degrees). Also hard for me to believe it's bad bearing(s) from the start - they were new Timken bearings from RockAuto, and I greased them with a wheel bearing grease attachment thing. Haven't driven it more than 200 miles since then. Hmm. It sounds like you did the adjustment correctly on the wheel bearings, and I doubt new bearings are bad. But I'd still jack it up and see if you can get things to wiggle. Maybe you didn't get the new seats fully pressed in? If so they sometimes go ahead and seat, so then the bearings will be loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce moose4x4 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 It sounds like you did the adjustment correctly on the wheel bearings, and I doubt new bearings are bad. But I'd still jack it up and see if you can get things to wiggle. Maybe you didn't get the new seats fully pressed in? If so they sometimes go ahead and seat, so then the bearings will be loose. If you lock in the hubs does it stop making the noise? Could be in the lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDav782 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 If you lock in the hubs does it stop making the noise? Could be in the lockout. Unfortunately no - locking the hubs, even shifting the transfer case to 4wd, doesn't change the sound. There should be some interference between the brake pads and rotors, even without brakes applied, right? Or should I be more seriously thinking about the brakes being the issue? I would think the sound would change when I applied (or released) the brakes, if they were the problem. Sure feels like I need to go back to the wheel bearings - I'll give that a shot today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDav782 Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Unfortunately no - locking the hubs, even shifting the transfer case to 4wd, doesn't change the sound. There should be some interference between the brake pads and rotors, even without brakes applied, right? Or should I be more seriously thinking about the brakes being the issue? I would think the sound would change when I applied (or released) the brakes, if they were the problem. Sure feels like I need to go back to the wheel bearings - I'll give that a shot today. I readjusted the bearing last night - it didn't feel loose at all but seemed like the next logical step. No change to the sound. Starting to feel like I should just replace the bearings entirely, right? Still seems very unlikely that brand-new bearings somehow failed, but I don't know what else could be making such a loud and dramatic sound, especially with when it makes the sound (anything over 5mph, same sound if in 4wd or reverse, same sound if coasting in N, same sound if braking or not braking, same sound if turning or going straight). But if I'm going in there again, would it make sense to replace the rotor and the pads at the same time, just in case those are contributing/causing the issue? If I replace the rotor, should I also replace the hub (as a single unit), or keep the stock hub and separate it from the old rotor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old55pete Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I readjusted the bearing last night - it didn't feel loose at all but seemed like the next logical step. No change to the sound. Starting to feel like I should just replace the bearings entirely, right? Still seems very unlikely that brand-new bearings somehow failed, but I don't know what else could be making such a loud and dramatic sound, especially with when it makes the sound (anything over 5mph, same sound if in 4wd or reverse, same sound if coasting in N, same sound if braking or not braking, same sound if turning or going straight). But if I'm going in there again, would it make sense to replace the rotor and the pads at the same time, just in case those are contributing/causing the issue? If I replace the rotor, should I also replace the hub (as a single unit), or keep the stock hub and separate it from the old rotor? Just a question because it sounds to me like the calliper is hung up. I say that because the wheel should turn freeley when spun by hand. What I am suggesting is removing the wheel and the caliper. put the wheel back on with a couple of lug nuts and give it a hard spin and see what happens. If it stops after 3/4 of a turn then I would go after the bearings. If it just keeps going then I would give a hard look at the caliper. The piston may be sticking and keeping a clamping force on the rotor. It could be that there is air in the caliper. Air gets hot, it expands, pushes the piston out, pad run on rotor and makes scraping noise. Just some food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDav782 Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just a question because it sounds to me like the calliper is hung up. I say that because the wheel should turn freeley when spun by hand. What I am suggesting is removing the wheel and the caliper. put the wheel back on with a couple of lug nuts and give it a hard spin and see what happens. If it stops after 3/4 of a turn then I would go after the bearings. If it just keeps going then I would give a hard look at the caliper. The piston may be sticking and keeping a clamping force on the rotor. It could be that there is air in the caliper. Air gets hot, it expands, pushes the piston out, pad run on rotor and makes scraping noise. Just some food for thought Thanks Steve, that seems like a very logical thing to try next - at least will help me justify what parts to start replacing. If it turns smooth and the brakes are the suspect: -Replace the caliper or service it? Seems like remanufactured are pretty cheap so feels like replace is easiest -If replacing the caliper, do I also replace rotor and pads at the same time? -If I replace rotors/pads, I should replace on both sides at same time right? -Any tips for caliper stuff? Haven't done anything like that yet to date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old55pete Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Thanks Steve, that seems like a very logical thing to try next - at least will help me justify what parts to start replacing. If it turns smooth and the brakes are the suspect: -Replace the caliper or service it? Seems like remanufactured are pretty cheap so feels like replace is easiest -If replacing the caliper, do I also replace rotor and pads at the same time? -If I replace rotors/pads, I should replace on both sides at same time right? -Any tips for caliper stuff? Haven't done anything like that yet to date If it is in fact a stuck caliper, the cheapest thing to do is replace it, But replace both at the same time and bleed them out good. As for the pads, that would depend on you. If they have a bunch of friction materal left on them, I would reuse them, Thats a call that you are going to have to make. Rule of thumb I have always gone by, if the friction material is the same thickness as the backing plate or less, I replace them. Another thought is on the rotors. Having worked in repair shops for years, In most states it is law that when the pads are replaced, at a minimum the rotors, the rotors must be measured to make sure they wont go under size after being resurfaced. Then resurface them. If they will go undersize, replace them. The dealers will tell you this, the shops will tell you this and this is what I do because I dont like squeaking brakes and brakes that wear out before they should. Others will tell you that you dont have to do the rotors and that is up to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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