Yes, Black Bear Road is dangerous

[Gary Lewis]

Yes I'm carbed. All of the 'wheeling I've ever done ('75 CJ5, '85 F-250, '71 Bronco) has been with a carb.

On the Jeep I had a set of smaller jets and a different power valve for the Holley. I don't know if that was needed, but it ran great in Colorado like that (7000 ~ 14000 feet).

IF I recall correctly in the F-250 I leaned out the idle mixture (which was done with a needle valve) but left the jets alone. It's been a while so I don't remember clearly how well that worked, but I know it wasn't a big problem. Maybe just a little trouble starting at times?

I haven't done anything with the Bronco to go up to ~13,000 feet. I can't say that it works well like that, but it's not really a problem. The exhaust stinks pretty bad, I have to hold the throttle open to clear a flood every time I'm trying to start it, and it's pretty down on power (most, if not all, of that is due to the altitude, but some might be due to the rich mixture).

So would it be nice to have EFI? Sure. My EFI tow vehicles start and run as good as ever up there (but with less power of course). But it's certainly not a requirement.

Having said that, there are people who say that EFI is almost a requirement for rock crawling at any elevation. When you hit rocks fuel in a carb sloshes, which can flood out the engine. And at severe angles you can starve a carb for fuel. None of that is an issue with EFI.

That was an issue with the Holley in my Jeep. Over the years I made a few modifications (vent baffles at least, I don't recall what else) to make it go from terrible to pretty good. But the Autolite / Motorcraft 2 barrel is widely considered the best carb for rock crawling, and that's what my F-250 and Bronco both had/have. So I haven't had any issues with them.

For what I think you'll be doing, at least at first, I don't think you'll have much trouble with that. If you do, lowering the float level while you're in the rocks makes it a lot more tolerable. Just remember to turn it back up when you get back to the highway or your carb won't be tuned how you think it is.

Good to know about the carb. I'll keep the EFI bit until last, and if all else is done and there's gobs of time I'll think about it. But, I'll take a strip kit for the Eddy with me. I have the AFR meter on it, so tuning should be easy. Might even be able to do it with the metering needles, meaning the top of the carb wouldn't have to come off.

On the rear axle, I'd bet the shoes are in correctly 'cause now that the load proportioning valve is out the rear brakes work well. On our 360 mile jaunt I told Janey to "hold on" and set it down QUICKLY. No squalls and it stopped NOW!

And I'm pretty sure it is the Sterling. It even has the long-pinion upgrade on it.

[Gary Lewis]

Good to know about the carb. I'll keep the EFI bit until last, and if all else is done and there's gobs of time I'll think about it. But, I'll take a strip kit for the Eddy with me. I have the AFR meter on it, so tuning should be easy. Might even be able to do it with the metering needles, meaning the top of the carb wouldn't have to come off.

On the rear axle, I'd bet the shoes are in correctly 'cause now that the load proportioning valve is out the rear brakes work well. On our 360 mile jaunt I told Janey to "hold on" and set it down QUICKLY. No squalls and it stopped NOW!

And I'm pretty sure it is the Sterling. It even has the long-pinion upgrade on it.

Well, ABC just aired a snippet of that video on World News Tonight. And they said "Telluride".

Janey caught it, of course, and she asked where - Ophir Pass? Nope, Black Bear. When? A few days after we were there. How close? 4.2 miles. Are you going on Black Bear? Probably.

But I took the opportunity to explain what we suspect happened, and she is ... ok.

[Nothing Special]

Well, ABC just aired a snippet of that video on World News Tonight. And they said "Telluride".

Janey caught it, of course, and she asked where - Ophir Pass? Nope, Black Bear. When? A few days after we were there. How close? 4.2 miles. Are you going on Black Bear? Probably.

But I took the opportunity to explain what we suspect happened, and she is ... ok.

Yeah, Lesley saw it on the news tonight too and looked it up on YouTube to show me. I said "yeah, I saw that a few days ago, I wasn't sure if I was going to show you."

A friend of hers was chatting with her about it and Lesley said "we took our kids over that when they were 5 and 6. But Bob's a better driver than that guy was." So I guess Lesley is OK too!

[Ford F834]

.... There is a line lock installed on my F-Superduty because the Cummins swap/Getrag 360 eliminated the Ford driveline brake. I feel comfortable enough with it on relatively flat ground where I will be using it (mostly to leave it running while I open and close our gate) but I wouldn’t care to use this on a backcountry vehicle. I like the driveline brake idea, but unfortunately there isn’t anything that will work with a GearVendors OD that I will have in my crew cab. I guess I will be stuck shutting the engine off and leaving it in gear since the Sterling parking brake is marginal at best....

I forgot to respond to this. Driveline brakes have good and bad points. A good point is that since it has the axle gears between it and the tires it's ~4 times stronger than it would be at the end of the axles. The minus of that is that it turns about 4 times faster, so if you use it as an emergency brake you can cook it pretty quick.

But a big disadvantage off road is that it only stops the driveshaft. If the vehicle is a little crossed up an open diff or TrueTrac will let the planted tire roll while the tire in the air spins backward. A clutch-type limited slip helps this a little, and a locker solves it.

Of course if you are in 4WD a single driveline brake holds both driveshafts, so you'd need to be able to spin one front and one back tire to have this problem. But being crossed up like that isn't that unusual.

Thanks for the insight on driveline brakes Bob. Those are some very good points that I hadn’t thought of.

[Gary Lewis]

Yeah, Lesley saw it on the news tonight too and looked it up on YouTube to show me. I said "yeah, I saw that a few days ago, I wasn't sure if I was going to show you."

A friend of hers was chatting with her about it and Lesley said "we took our kids over that when they were 5 and 6. But Bob's a better driver than that guy was." So I guess Lesley is OK too!

Janey said she hopes our friends see it and ask us about it so I have the oppo to tell them more. Given that, I think she understands that guy messed up.

[Nothing Special]

Thanks for the insight on driveline brakes Bob. Those are some very good points that I hadn’t thought of.

Of course those same issues also affect leaving a manual trans in gear with the engine off, or putting an auto trans in park. Another argument for lockers.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks for the insight on driveline brakes Bob. Those are some very good points that I hadn’t thought of.

Of course those same issues also affect leaving a manual trans in gear with the engine off, or putting an auto trans in park. Another argument for lockers.

Wouldn't a Trutrac cause the other wheel to spin or slide as well?

[Nothing Special]

Janey said she hopes our friends see it and ask us about it so I have the oppo to tell them more. Given that, I think she understands that guy messed up.

Gary, here's a

!

From 1:06 to about 2:45 he's on "the Steps." That's the most difficult part of the trail. It's a series of bumps and holes. I guess people have rolled on this part, so it's not to be taken too lightly. But it's not that hard either, and no one really remembers it after driving the rest of the road! And the key to getting down it pretty easily is just to do your best to go straight down hills rather than straight down the trail. In other words, don't get into the situation where you are dropping one front tire in a hole when the other is climbing something. Turn so you go as straight into the holes as possible.

From 3:10 to 4:15 he's going around Adios Curve. No one forgets Adios Curve! This is where you first get out on the cliff wall. It's actually very easy in a narrow vehicle, but the 1500 foot drop RIGHT THERE makes it seem nearly impossible. But it wouldn't be a cake walk getting a full size truck around it without some body damage.

From 4:20 to 4:35 he's going down from Adios Curve to the first switchback (which you can see in the background). This is a very steep section, but compared to Adios Curve it's straight and wide, so it's where you can start to breathe again. However, from the full video that Ford F834 posted my best guess is that that Jeep went off the road along here, so while you can breathe here, don't get too relaxed. Again my best guess, he was going to spot someone around Adios Curve.

At that point the video ends. The first switchback that you just saw isn't bad. Even a short wheelbase Jeep almost always has to back up once, so it might take a few with a full size. But it's a pretty big, pretty level area.

The next section, from the first switchback to the second, isn't shown at all in this video, but the last part is shown from 1:00 to 1:50 of the video Ford F834 posted (how I know the Jeep fell from above this point). It's a lot more level, but with some very narrow spots, and the cliff is still RIGHT THERE so it deserves your full attention. It's possible that the Jeep fall started from this section as well (the Jeep that videoed it was on the next section of road, so at had to be here or above that it started). But this section isn't steep enough for me to think it happened here. And there's nothing here that I think he'd need to spot for. This is a good place to stop, get out and take pictures, but don't take it for granted either.

From 4:39 to 5:37 of the fullsize video there are still pictures of a Ford Ranger on the second switchback. And from 1:50 to 2:20 of the other video the Jeep is making a 5 point turn here. That is the tightest switchback and the one that will be the hardest in a full-size. It's also the one that freaks people out the most (well, after Adios Curve) because even Wranglers and early Broncos need to hang their front bumper off the cliff, and you usually end up with your left front driving right on the soft edge as you come off it. The rock wall behind you and the big rock you are turning around is what makes this tough. There's just no room.

After that the road is still narrow and shelfy, but if you haven't soiled your armor yet you won't be too concerned (still pay attention though!). And there are a few more switchbacks that are 3 point turns in a smallish vehicle like an early Bronco. But you're past the hardest and scariest parts by this point.

And I'll wrap this up with my same broken record. This trail isn't for everyone. Don't feel that you have to do it. If you want to, sure go ahead. It's not that hard. But it's not a cake walk, it's scary, and it's dangerous. That's all what makes it worth doing for some people, but it's also what makes it not worth doing for others.

 

[Nothing Special]

Wouldn't a Trutrac cause the other wheel to spin or slide as well?

I believe a TrueTrac will work just like an open diff in this situation.

A clutch-type limited slip will offer some braking (the torque it takes to slip the diff), but I wouldn't count on it.

Only a locker (or spool) will prevent either tire from rolling if the other loses traction.

[Gary Lewis]

Wouldn't a Trutrac cause the other wheel to spin or slide as well?

I believe a TrueTrac will work just like an open diff in this situation.

A clutch-type limited slip will offer some braking (the torque it takes to slip the diff), but I wouldn't count on it.

Only a locker (or spool) will prevent either tire from rolling if the other loses traction.

Bob - Janey is sitting beside me so I'll watch the videos later when I get to the shop.

But thanks for the commentary. And the cautions. They will be heeded.

What I'm thinking we may do is to run Last Dollar Road and then Ophir Pass on Day one with our wives. Then on Day Two take them up to Animas Forks and do the Alpine Loop, although the last/north west section of that may be too much for them. Then on Day Three they may stay in town or rent a car and drive down to Durango for the day, and my brother and I'll tackle something like Poughkeepsie Gulch.

Then, depending on how confident we are, we MIGHT go for Black Bear the next day. Or, maybe not. By then we'll know something about ourselves and our machines, and can make a better decision.