Gary Lewis Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Found some stuff RE: NP229 vs NP208. A quote from Slick Willie on IFSJA forum: " As far as strength, I can't vouch for differences, but I know the 208 is a strong case, and it's smaller and lighter than the 229." And Wilsmick says: "Swap considerations: - I know I'll need to lengthen my rear DS to swap in NP208. - As long as the NP208 comes out of another jeep it should be 23 spline input and bolt right in. - shift linkage for NP208 (from another jeep) should be the same as my NP229 linkage. If I go with a NP208, I can just remove (cap-off) the vacuum stuff." So then, It seems like size won't be an issue. If the 229 would fit, the 208 would also fit, but require more rear driveshaft and presumably use the same linkage on the floor (with consideration for overall linkage adjustment/fab with engine/trans change). The spline count will be Ford-Ford, so same difference with Wilsmick's Jeep-Jeep thing. (Edit: and! I would have had to do a different shaft to fit the 229 to Ford trans, so none of that now!) At this point, all signs point to "do this swap during engine/trans swap because you don't want to get another rear shaft after the 229 can't be fixed for whatever future reason and you change to 208 anyway." I'm sure that was difficult to fit inside the magic 8 ball, but that's what it said, so... Swiper, no swiping! I think the length of the E4OD, even coupled with the shorter NP208, is likely to cause you to need new shafts. But, who knows. Having said that, you know where the NP208 is. What I didn't point out is the pretty E4OD in Dad's truck. We/you can measure both of them and get an idea of the total length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Swiper, no swiping! I think the length of the E4OD, even coupled with the shorter NP208, is likely to cause you to need new shafts. But, who knows. Having said that, you know where the NP208 is. What I didn't point out is the pretty E4OD in Dad's truck. We/you can measure both of them and get an idea of the total length. Oh, I forgot the question about hubs. Milemarker and Warn are the top two in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxFord33 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Oh, I forgot the question about hubs. Milemarker and Warn are the top two in my opinion. Thanks, Gary! I really meant to say that I would need driveshafts for a swap no matter which swap. But if I did the 229 first, then it gave out, then went 208, I would need one more shaft than if I skip that step. So that is more succinct... I could just leave the slugs, and it would coast the whole front end just like currently, and use the linkage to engage TC... nothing would wear or break before its time unless I locked the TC on highway/pavement, correct? But Locking Hubs do make a nice addition for the freewheeling capability. Does that sound right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Thanks, Gary! I really meant to say that I would need driveshafts for a swap no matter which swap. But if I did the 229 first, then it gave out, then went 208, I would need one more shaft than if I skip that step. So that is more succinct... I could just leave the slugs, and it would coast the whole front end just like currently, and use the linkage to engage TC... nothing would wear or break before its time unless I locked the TC on highway/pavement, correct? But Locking Hubs do make a nice addition for the freewheeling capability. Does that sound right? Yes, w/o "locking" hubs you'll be running the front diff and driveshaft 100% of the time. That's wear and drag that isn't needed, but unless you go into 4wd on dry pavement it won't cause bind. It also creates noise. Once I was driving Dad's truck to Ark City and trying to figure out where the extra noise was coming from. Finally figured out one hub was locked it. Unlocked it and it went quiet again. As for the shafts, skipping the NP229 step makes sense to me. No sense to have two sets of driveshafts made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxFord33 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Thanks, Gary! I really meant to say that I would need driveshafts for a swap no matter which swap. But if I did the 229 first, then it gave out, then went 208, I would need one more shaft than if I skip that step. So that is more succinct... I could just leave the slugs, and it would coast the whole front end just like currently, and use the linkage to engage TC... nothing would wear or break before its time unless I locked the TC on highway/pavement, correct? But Locking Hubs do make a nice addition for the freewheeling capability. Does that sound right? What do you do to calculate/estimate which diff gears you actually need? It seems like a "differential equation":nabble_laughing-25-x-25_orig: ...ahem... But I am not sure which variable is most important. If I were to pick, I would say a balance of good highway efficiency and some offroad capability. Nothing extreme. I might go to an offroad park for fun, but it would be tooling around on mild/moderate grade, probably not even a winch. So I need to find out if all 208's drop it the same ratio, and what that is. And what the gears in an E4OD are (I know that's on here somewhere). And then find out what my current diffs are set to. (probably either 2.73 or 3.31) What else to consider? I know what my old truck did with 3.55's, so perhaps these axles would not tow a bunch, but I wouldn't want to anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 What do you do to calculate/estimate which diff gears you actually need? It seems like a "differential equation":nabble_laughing-25-x-25_orig: ...ahem... But I am not sure which variable is most important. If I were to pick, I would say a balance of good highway efficiency and some offroad capability. Nothing extreme. I might go to an offroad park for fun, but it would be tooling around on mild/moderate grade, probably not even a winch. So I need to find out if all 208's drop it the same ratio, and what that is. And what the gears in an E4OD are (I know that's on here somewhere). And then find out what my current diffs are set to. (probably either 2.73 or 3.31) What else to consider? I know what my old truck did with 3.55's, so perhaps these axles would not tow a bunch, but I wouldn't want to anyway. Many of your answers can be answered here: Documentation/Driveline/Calculators. You'll see the E4OD and NP208 ratios. And Novak says the 229 as the same ratios as the 208. Pretty much all t-cases have 1:1 in High, but they vary a bit in Low range. (Note that Big Blue's BW1345 is the lowest of the ones listed. ) So put in your tire size (assuming you know that ) and your diff ratios and then have a play. (It comes up with Big Blue's #'s each time you refresh. Wonder why?) If you get something around 1800 to 2000 RPM in OD at 65 MPH I'd think you are good. Much lower than 17 or 1800 and you might have to shift out of OD for some hills. But that's not a deal-breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 What do you do to calculate/estimate which diff gears you actually need? It seems like a "differential equation":nabble_laughing-25-x-25_orig: ...ahem... But I am not sure which variable is most important. If I were to pick, I would say a balance of good highway efficiency and some offroad capability. Nothing extreme. I might go to an offroad park for fun, but it would be tooling around on mild/moderate grade, probably not even a winch. So I need to find out if all 208's drop it the same ratio, and what that is. And what the gears in an E4OD are (I know that's on here somewhere). And then find out what my current diffs are set to. (probably either 2.73 or 3.31) What else to consider? I know what my old truck did with 3.55's, so perhaps these axles would not tow a bunch, but I wouldn't want to anyway. I forgot the reference to a class I HATED! Diff E! Yes, one of my degrees is in that stuff, but that was 'cause Tahlequah didn't have Engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxFord33 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 - deleted - I decided it was better at the beginning, so I put "The List" there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 - deleted - I decided it was better at the beginning, so I put "The List" there. Steve - I like your list. But, there is a way to "embed" the list in your post. You'll need something like OneDrive or Google Drive, and put your file on there. Then follow the instructions on the Embed tab on the page at Bullnose Forum/Forum FAQ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxFord33 Posted May 4, 2023 Author Share Posted May 4, 2023 After a hiatus caused by hard economic times for me, I have news of progress. I have found a donor vehicle. No details yet, so I don't jinx it, but this weekend I am aiming to collect a van for its 5.8L with roller cam. This is just the impetus I have been looking for! I just hope it turns out to be useable. It has been a long time since last I posted, and I have been using that time to strip down everything on the Jeep. Chasing rust out of the rocker panels, etc... Now, I will have a new adventure in figuring out how to remove the drivetrain from an E-series. But, hey! Factory Serpentine system, complete with ham can power steering! I am very excited about the prospect of boosting the number of parts in my "Got It" column. I just need to remember where I put that document, or link a new one... More information forthcoming. Just too excited not to post. Finally! Potential Progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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