Throttle Cable swap

[Rusty_S85]

Let me put this in simplest terms I can, if you use a longer throttle lever, then the arc the ball travels in will be greater, It is actually the chord of the arc if you remember your high school geometry. That being said, if the stock ford throttle cable travel is 2" and it acts on a 1 1/4" lever length, the actual rotation angle is around 80° - 85° rather than a full 90°. I am not saying these are the actual values! If you are looking for a "smoother" tip in, the factory used two different methods on the EFI systems, one is a relay lever that as it moves through its arc effectively increases it's pull on the actual throttle shaft, the other is a circle segment with the cable wrapped over it. The first is what Ford used on the EFI engines, the second is what Chrysler used on their turbocharged 4 cyls. The last variation is a curved section that decreases in radius as it opens further, this way, like Ford's lever system, the initial opening is slow for the cable travel, but the last part is fast, this is because the initial opening has a large change in airflow for a little travel, essentially very sensitive, the latter part has a much smaller change for the same travel.

Putting a longer throttle lever and expecting a cable and accelerator pedal designed for a shorter one to open it fully just isn't going to work. Maybe Lokar or someone else has a cable system that will satisfy your needs.

thing is I dont know how the sniper throttle lever is compared to carburetors. Part of me thinks it is on the shorter side compared to a carburetor.

But the 1" extension for the throttle lever is the recommended fix for stiff throttle pedals because you dont use any springs, you are fighting the over powered springs. If one could remove the springs that they supply one could in theory use carb springs to pull back to closed which might would provide better feel. But I dont think it would because the feel is a lot stiffer with the engine running than with it off as the engine vacuum is pulling on the closed throttle plates.

[Rusty_S85]

thing is I dont know how the sniper throttle lever is compared to carburetors. Part of me thinks it is on the shorter side compared to a carburetor.

But the 1" extension for the throttle lever is the recommended fix for stiff throttle pedals because you dont use any springs, you are fighting the over powered springs. If one could remove the springs that they supply one could in theory use carb springs to pull back to closed which might would provide better feel. But I dont think it would because the feel is a lot stiffer with the engine running than with it off as the engine vacuum is pulling on the closed throttle plates.

This is the lever extension

This is from a mustang forum where they are showing the difference from stock sniper to the lever extension. This is also mounted in the 700R4 TV cable port which leans the extension slightly forward. I would use it on the TH350 mount that is forward which would shift the new throttle ball location towards the rear.

And looking at it without measurements it looks like the new throttle ball location would be what is the large opening on this Holley while the standard ball location is where the ball location is on the holley.

[Gary Lewis]

Let me put this in simplest terms I can, if you use a longer throttle lever, then the arc the ball travels in will be greater, It is actually the chord of the arc if you remember your high school geometry. That being said, if the stock ford throttle cable travel is 2" and it acts on a 1 1/4" lever length, the actual rotation angle is around 80° - 85° rather than a full 90°. I am not saying these are the actual values! If you are looking for a "smoother" tip in, the factory used two different methods on the EFI systems, one is a relay lever that as it moves through its arc effectively increases it's pull on the actual throttle shaft, the other is a circle segment with the cable wrapped over it. The first is what Ford used on the EFI engines, the second is what Chrysler used on their turbocharged 4 cyls. The last variation is a curved section that decreases in radius as it opens further, this way, like Ford's lever system, the initial opening is slow for the cable travel, but the last part is fast, this is because the initial opening has a large change in airflow for a little travel, essentially very sensitive, the latter part has a much smaller change for the same travel.

Putting a longer throttle lever and expecting a cable and accelerator pedal designed for a shorter one to open it fully just isn't going to work. Maybe Lokar or someone else has a cable system that will satisfy your needs.

Bill is exactly right. As I posted earlier, the dimensions I measured are:

Holley 4180C: 1.210"

Edelbrock 1406: 1.300"

With the Edelbrock's 1.30" from center of the throttle shaft to the center of the ball the Ford linkage will JUST get full throttle if you have essentially no slack at idle. If there is any slack you won't get full throttl.

And if the ball is any higher at all it is physically impossible to get full throttle with stock linkage.

[Rusty_S85]

Bill is exactly right. As I posted earlier, the dimensions I measured are:

Holley 4180C: 1.210"

Edelbrock 1406: 1.300"

With the Edelbrock's 1.30" from center of the throttle shaft to the center of the ball the Ford linkage will JUST get full throttle if you have essentially no slack at idle. If there is any slack you won't get full throttl.

And if the ball is any higher at all it is physically impossible to get full throttle with stock linkage.

So measure from the center of the throttle shaft to the center of the ball stud. Ill measure it real quick and see what it is to the stock ball mount cause I know the extension is stated to raise it 1" above which would probably be way too much.

[Gary Lewis]

So measure from the center of the throttle shaft to the center of the ball stud. Ill measure it real quick and see what it is to the stock ball mount cause I know the extension is stated to raise it 1" above which would probably be way too much.

Yes. I played a bunch with throttle cables last week and I found that to run an Eddy with the ball in that hole you have to have it adjusted very close. No slack. It would be better with the ball in a lower hole, but there isn't one.

[85lebaront2]

This is the lever extension

This is from a mustang forum where they are showing the difference from stock sniper to the lever extension. This is also mounted in the 700R4 TV cable port which leans the extension slightly forward. I would use it on the TH350 mount that is forward which would shift the new throttle ball location towards the rear.

And looking at it without measurements it looks like the new throttle ball location would be what is the large opening on this Holley while the standard ball location is where the ball location is on the holley.

A - the large hole on the Holley is where Chevrolet throttle rods went on with a rubber bushing. That is way further out than a Ford throttle.

B - The Chevrolet throttle hole is a bit forward of the Ford and way forward of the Chrysler locations on carburetors, both of which have much shorter throttle arms.

C - IF you can get the starting point of the throttle travel almost at a right angle to the mounting surface, you will have the longest lever length at idle, progressing to a shorter length as you open the throttle

D - I don't know how old you are, but I was adapting carburetors to some damn odd applications in the late 60s, and a number of Holley's adapter kits were pirated from Preston Carburetion work I did then. Fuel injection was something Corvettes and European cars had then.

[Rusty_S85]

Yes. I played a bunch with throttle cables last week and I found that to run an Eddy with the ball in that hole you have to have it adjusted very close. No slack. It would be better with the ball in a lower hole, but there isn't one.

The stock ball height from center of shaft to center of ball mount is 1.10"

As far as the extension goes I dont know how long it is to make measurements to see how long it would be. Ive seen it stated it is 1" higher up than the ball stud mount but no actual specs so I cant get a measurement till I get mine in. I ordered mine last monday and a week and a half later still no shipment from jegs.

If it is right around the top of the dog leg on the throttle then from center of shaft to that point is just a hair under 1.75". Which means there is no way it could be 1" higher. I think it was just a generalization cause even Holley doesnt list specs like that.

[Rusty_S85]

A - the large hole on the Holley is where Chevrolet throttle rods went on with a rubber bushing. That is way further out than a Ford throttle.

B - The Chevrolet throttle hole is a bit forward of the Ford and way forward of the Chrysler locations on carburetors, both of which have much shorter throttle arms.

C - IF you can get the starting point of the throttle travel almost at a right angle to the mounting surface, you will have the longest lever length at idle, progressing to a shorter length as you open the throttle

D - I don't know how old you are, but I was adapting carburetors to some damn odd applications in the late 60s, and a number of Holley's adapter kits were pirated from Preston Carburetion work I did then. Fuel injection was something Corvettes and European cars had then.

Yep, I even seen some fords with rods use that opening as well.

But all of this is going off guesses as I dont have the extension in hand yet to know. I know some said its 1" higher. But I dont truly know cause no where on line is there a spec for it.

Im just glad I found this out because I need to form a plan for the throttle cable. I could clip the cable I have and install a generic cable that is longer with a clamp on end and set it after I get the IAC set. this way I can set it to have no slack as once in the 2 to 10% IAC range the idle screw never has to be touched again as the IAC controls the idle.

I guess I could run it without the extension but I hate the thought of that cause every one I installed, it was a very touchy snappy pedal on tip in when you touch the throttle pedal. it goes from 2% to 4% TPS and snaps open to 40% TPS when the pedal finally moves and it moves so far so quick resulting in quick jackrabbit starts which is something I dont want which is why I ordered the extension in the first place as Ive installed them and they work great. But never used OE cables though everything ive done install wise was with aftermarket builds with aftermarket cables and no cruise control.

[Gary Lewis]

I could clip the cable I have and install a generic cable that is longer with a clamp on end and set it after I get the IAC set.

I think you are missing the point. You can do whatever you want with the cable making it longer or shorter, but nothing you do will change how much the end of it moves when you floor the pedal.

In the drawing below you see two red lines, the bottom of which is the pivot point for the pedal and the top being where the cable attaches. As long as that distance doesn't change the cable will always move exactly the same distance on the end, regardless of whether the cable is 1" long or 1 mile long.

The only way to change how much the end of the cable moves is to change the distance between the two red lines. And since you can't change the pivot point the only thing you can do is to raise the attachment point for the cable.

Ford had a special cable for the 300 six:

80/ F-U150/350 E7TZ 9725-A Use when floor carpet/mat interference is noted

I think it raised the attachment point for the cable. So, you could find one of those or add an extension to the pedal you have. Or, just lower the ball on the throttle.

[Rusty_S85]

I could clip the cable I have and install a generic cable that is longer with a clamp on end and set it after I get the IAC set.

I think you are missing the point. You can do whatever you want with the cable making it longer or shorter, but nothing you do will change how much the end of it moves when you floor the pedal.

In the drawing below you see two red lines, the bottom of which is the pivot point for the pedal and the top being where the cable attaches. As long as that distance doesn't change the cable will always move exactly the same distance on the end, regardless of whether the cable is 1" long or 1 mile long.

The only way to change how much the end of the cable moves is to change the distance between the two red lines. And since you can't change the pivot point the only thing you can do is to raise the attachment point for the cable.

Ford had a special cable for the 300 six:

80/ F-U150/350 E7TZ 9725-A Use when floor carpet/mat interference is noted

I think it raised the attachment point for the cable. So, you could find one of those or add an extension to the pedal you have. Or, just lower the ball on the throttle.

Well lowering the ball on the arm will make the tip in horrible and make the truck undriveable. I would rather save the $1,800 I would spend on this fuel injection setup and just run a carb and fight with that before having a stiff throttle that snaps open resulting in jerking and hard pulling off idle like you are hotrodding it.

As far as the pivot goes, with an aftermarket throttle cable you have adjustment to make it work. What it does is it pulls the pedal up higher by pulling the lever part of the throttle towards the firewall. Making the cable longer with in reason to reach while pulling it closer to the firewall would give you more pull as the pedal is higher up off the floor and as you step on the pedal it is can go down further which provides more pull.

Ive done this before with aftermarket cables on numerous custom installs before and ive raised the pedal as high as it was hitting the built in stop of the pedal.

I know it can be done with aftermarket cables. My problem is an aftermarket cable will not work with the OE bracketry and I could get an aftermarket bracketry that bolts onto the throttle body mount but this would not have the clip part for the cruise control and I do not think the cruise control cable is long enough to move it from the rear part of the intake manifold up to the rear bolts on the carb mount.

But as I said earlier, if I dont use the throttle lever extension it is 1.10" from center of the throttle shaft to the center of the ball mount. I dont know what the center to center is of the upper two holes on the extension which could be added to the 1.10" measurement to give me a center of throttle shaft to center of ball mount measurement. But I do not believe center to center for those two holes would be 0.20" though which would prevent it from exceeding 1.30"