Throttle Cable swap

[Rusty_S85]

Anyone here ever did a 2V to 4V throttle cable swap before?

I been talking with some guys that are working on same era trucks as these on the sniper owners group and a few of them are not able to get 100% wot with the OE cable, one guy states about 75% open throttle.

I looked up my truck and found E1TZ-9A758-E which is a 19-3/4" long cable and listed for 255, 302, 351-2/B.

But I see for a listing number E4TZ-9A758-D listed as 84/85 351-4/B listed as 22 1/2" long. There is also another one that doesnt state 2/b or 4/b but its E1TZ-9A758-B and is 255, 302, 351, and 400 that is 21 1/2" long.

So I am curious has anyone thrown in a 4V throttle cable that is longer in place of a 2V one? Does anyone know if there is a difference in 2V and 4V cruise control attachment?

Trying to get this figured out before I reach the point of finding out I wont get full throttle just like the others. I thought of possibly cutting the OE cable disassembling it and getting like a lokar cable and just rob the cable itself and feed it through the OE cable sleeve but I dont know if the NOS cruise control clip that pins into the throttle cable end for the bead chain would work with the aftermarket lokar cable end.

But if the E4TZ-9A758-D is right for doing a conversion from 2V to 4V then I rather just spend the extra money then figure out on the cruise control chain later on if that is not long enough.

[Rembrant]

Anyone here ever did a 2V to 4V throttle cable swap before?

To be honest, I don't think I was aware that there was a difference. I went from the stock 2bbl carb and iron intake on my 302 and swapped in an Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Holley 4bbl carb on a 1" aluminum spacer, and I simply re-used my original 1984 throttle cable. It just snapped in place with the stock bracket and has been working fine for going on 2 years now. Mind you, my truck is manual trans with no cruise control, so it is a pretty simple affair all things considered. I don't think I have had any issues with WOT, but I'll check it next time I have the air cleaner off the engine. This is an older picture, but nothing has changed regarding the throttle cable installation.

 

[85lebaront2]

Back when I had my shop, Ford products were always a problem on throttle linkage or cables going from a 2 to 4 barrel carburetor. With the linkage, if it was a pull rod, sometimes there was enough adjustment that it would work, push style (used late 60s into the 70s) was a real problem, I made more than a few out of rod stock.

On the cables, Chrysler had the best setup, the casing was adjustable, GM products, Chevy in particular, usually aftermarket manifolds had the correct hole location. Ford uses a longer "front" portion to reach the throttle arm on a 4 barrel, relocating the attachment (bracket) on the intake will sometimes solve the problem.

Biggest issue with aftermarket "universal" carburetors or injection throttle bodies, they are made with a Chevy throttle lever which (a) is longer that a Ford and (b) the angle of it is further forward than a Ford. If the sniper has the extra holes that the Carter AFB and Holley performance carbs have, then the lower rear hole is almost perfect for the factory Ford cable. Cruise, if you have the bead chain "cable" at worst case a hardware store may have extra chain that fits.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Back when I had my shop, Ford products were always a problem on throttle linkage or cables going from a 2 to 4 barrel carburetor. With the linkage, if it was a pull rod, sometimes there was enough adjustment that it would work, push style (used late 60s into the 70s) was a real problem, I made more than a few out of rod stock.

On the cables, Chrysler had the best setup, the casing was adjustable, GM products, Chevy in particular, usually aftermarket manifolds had the correct hole location. Ford uses a longer "front" portion to reach the throttle arm on a 4 barrel, relocating the attachment (bracket) on the intake will sometimes solve the problem.

Biggest issue with aftermarket "universal" carburetors or injection throttle bodies, they are made with a Chevy throttle lever which (a) is longer that a Ford and (b) the angle of it is further forward than a Ford. If the sniper has the extra holes that the Carter AFB and Holley performance carbs have, then the lower rear hole is almost perfect for the factory Ford cable. Cruise, if you have the bead chain "cable" at worst case a hardware store may have extra chain that fits.

I've played with this rather extensively recently, which you can see starting roughly with this post on Big Blue's Transformation thread.

First, there's no difference between a 2V cable and a 4V cable other than maybe length. And the length difference between engines is only there to make the cable fit nicely into the space available. It doesn't do anything for how much throttle opening you get. All of the cables move the end of the cable the same distance when you move the throttle as that is determined by the pedal.

And Bill is right about the position of the stud on the carb/EFI. As you'll see in BB's thread, I measured three carbs I have and found this for the distance from the center of the shaft to the center of the stud:

Street Demon: 1.060"

Holley 4180C: 1.210"

Edelbrock 1406: 1.300"

Since the end of the cable is only going to move a certain distance when you floor the pedal, if you aren't getting full throttle there are only two things you can do:

1. Make sure that your throttle cable bracket is positioned such that there's only a tiny bit of slack when the linkage is at idle.

2. Move the ball closer to the center of the throttle shaft.

[71_badmach]

Rusty, I received my aftermarket 24" cable (Summit brand) today... it is substantially less $ than a Lokar, that you may want to look at. My truck doesn't have cruise either, though so your setup sounds a little more involved. Going with a Lokar for the AOD kickdown cable, at least that's the plan.

 

[Rusty_S85]

Anyone here ever did a 2V to 4V throttle cable swap before?

To be honest, I don't think I was aware that there was a difference. I went from the stock 2bbl carb and iron intake on my 302 and swapped in an Edelbrock Performer 289 intake, Holley 4bbl carb on a 1" aluminum spacer, and I simply re-used my original 1984 throttle cable. It just snapped in place with the stock bracket and has been working fine for going on 2 years now. Mind you, my truck is manual trans with no cruise control, so it is a pretty simple affair all things considered. I don't think I have had any issues with WOT, but I'll check it next time I have the air cleaner off the engine. This is an older picture, but nothing has changed regarding the throttle cable installation.

See thats what I thought, i thought it would fit just fine the worse case the gas pedal would be pulled up slightly higher than it was with the 2V as the cable is pulled more forward to reach the throttle ball.

[Rusty_S85]

Back when I had my shop, Ford products were always a problem on throttle linkage or cables going from a 2 to 4 barrel carburetor. With the linkage, if it was a pull rod, sometimes there was enough adjustment that it would work, push style (used late 60s into the 70s) was a real problem, I made more than a few out of rod stock.

On the cables, Chrysler had the best setup, the casing was adjustable, GM products, Chevy in particular, usually aftermarket manifolds had the correct hole location. Ford uses a longer "front" portion to reach the throttle arm on a 4 barrel, relocating the attachment (bracket) on the intake will sometimes solve the problem.

Biggest issue with aftermarket "universal" carburetors or injection throttle bodies, they are made with a Chevy throttle lever which (a) is longer that a Ford and (b) the angle of it is further forward than a Ford. If the sniper has the extra holes that the Carter AFB and Holley performance carbs have, then the lower rear hole is almost perfect for the factory Ford cable. Cruise, if you have the bead chain "cable" at worst case a hardware store may have extra chain that fits.

The above is a stock photo that shows the mount. Its more of a ford setup with the ford C6 kick down but the two holes on the bottom are for TV cable for TH250/350 or 700R4.

The only thing is I will be using a extension to raise the pivot ball up about 1" above the OE location as holley designed the ball mount too short and it has a very harsh tip in on the throttle. With the extension it makes it softer and more like a throttle rod linkage feel of ease or a cable with no return spring. The extension mounts to one of the TV cable mounts as well as the OE ball mount and I plan on mounting mine on the forward TH250/350 mount which will put the ball at the same distance forward of the throttle shaft but still providing an extra 1" of leverage. If I mount it the other way it would put the pivot ball more forward.

This is why I am concerned cause I seen quite a few people with fords citing they cant get WOT but I dont now their setup. I have the OE bracket and I thought Edelbrock put the throttle cable mounting point on the intake in the proper place to provide proper cable interaction.

Its why Ive been thinking of a work around, possibly chopping the cable I have but maintaining the plastic housing and just use a new cable and modify it to work but be longer than the OE setup to reach properly.

[Rusty_S85]

I've played with this rather extensively recently, which you can see starting roughly with this post on Big Blue's Transformation thread.

First, there's no difference between a 2V cable and a 4V cable other than maybe length. And the length difference between engines is only there to make the cable fit nicely into the space available. It doesn't do anything for how much throttle opening you get. All of the cables move the end of the cable the same distance when you move the throttle as that is determined by the pedal.

And Bill is right about the position of the stud on the carb/EFI. As you'll see in BB's thread, I measured three carbs I have and found this for the distance from the center of the shaft to the center of the stud:

Street Demon: 1.060"

Holley 4180C: 1.210"

Edelbrock 1406: 1.300"

Since the end of the cable is only going to move a certain distance when you floor the pedal, if you aren't getting full throttle there are only two things you can do:

1. Make sure that your throttle cable bracket is positioned such that there's only a tiny bit of slack when the linkage is at idle.

2. Move the ball closer to the center of the throttle shaft.

Well thats what I mean is the length but I wasnt sure if it was a straight drop in or if there was something else that could cause a problem such as the casing being longer for the 4V which will make it bunch up and not fit the firewall to cable mount on the intake.

Im not sure about if I will have a problem or not but I have now see three people with 80 - 86 F-series trucks citing that they couldnt use OE throttle cable as the sniper wouldnt go full throttle. I dont know if they were running the plain sniper which is more like a edelbrock with the throttle cable kicked outboard so far which would take more cable to reach or if it is the stealth like I have which is based off the holley 4150.

Way I see it is if a holley 4150 dual feed carb will bolt on with the OE cable then this should work as well. Not sure once I add the throttle extension to raise the throttle ball up 2" from the shaft to provide more leverage to get a smoother feel to the throttle.

[Rusty_S85]

Rusty, I received my aftermarket 24" cable (Summit brand) today... it is substantially less $ than a Lokar, that you may want to look at. My truck doesn't have cruise either, though so your setup sounds a little more involved. Going with a Lokar for the AOD kickdown cable, at least that's the plan.

That was one idea I had, get a cheapie cable to rob the cable itself and then snip the OE cable and use the aftermarket cable to custom make it the length it needs to work and then see if I can make the cruise control adapter fit the aftermarket snap for the throttle ball.

But I really dont like the thought of doing that especially if I could buy a slightly longer cable and get it to reach. But I hate to hunt down a NOS 351w 4bbl cable if its not going to work properly. Part of me is concerned the extra length might be in the plastic sleeve and not the end of the sleeve to the clip for the throttle ball.

[85lebaront2]

That was one idea I had, get a cheapie cable to rob the cable itself and then snip the OE cable and use the aftermarket cable to custom make it the length it needs to work and then see if I can make the cruise control adapter fit the aftermarket snap for the throttle ball.

But I really dont like the thought of doing that especially if I could buy a slightly longer cable and get it to reach. But I hate to hunt down a NOS 351w 4bbl cable if its not going to work properly. Part of me is concerned the extra length might be in the plastic sleeve and not the end of the sleeve to the clip for the throttle ball.

Let me put this in simplest terms I can, if you use a longer throttle lever, then the arc the ball travels in will be greater, It is actually the chord of the arc if you remember your high school geometry. That being said, if the stock ford throttle cable travel is 2" and it acts on a 1 1/4" lever length, the actual rotation angle is around 80° - 85° rather than a full 90°. I am not saying these are the actual values! If you are looking for a "smoother" tip in, the factory used two different methods on the EFI systems, one is a relay lever that as it moves through its arc effectively increases it's pull on the actual throttle shaft, the other is a circle segment with the cable wrapped over it. The first is what Ford used on the EFI engines, the second is what Chrysler used on their turbocharged 4 cyls. The last variation is a curved section that decreases in radius as it opens further, this way, like Ford's lever system, the initial opening is slow for the cable travel, but the last part is fast, this is because the initial opening has a large change in airflow for a little travel, essentially very sensitive, the latter part has a much smaller change for the same travel.

Putting a longer throttle lever and expecting a cable and accelerator pedal designed for a shorter one to open it fully just isn't going to work. Maybe Lokar or someone else has a cable system that will satisfy your needs.