The replacing of a c6 with t19. More than just the swap

[Gary Lewis]

You DESERVE to kick back and enjoy it!

That's quite a lot you've accomplished so far.

Yes, you've done a great job! So sort out the little details and take it easy. And touch that brake pedal and grin.

[IDIBronco]

Yes, you've done a great job! So sort out the little details and take it easy. And touch that brake pedal and grin.

Post swap notes...

I have been enjoying driving the bronco full time for a while now. Turns out I like it even more. The brakes are mostly phenomenal. I pulled a trailer yesterday (my small dump trailer) which I scaled at 9700 lbs loaded total weight and 8050 lbs empty total weight. The stick shift is delightful to pull with compared to the old slush box. Always knowing what is going to happen and controlling the change to the next gear both up and down is a major improvment. The small hill I start from a stop sign on I was able to run about 10 mph faster at the top than normal from this difference. The brakes now are better with the loaded trailer in tow than they were with the stock booster/master with f250 brakes and empty bronco. It will stop more then you can comfortably handle. The one complaint with the hydroboost (the same as always) is the lack of braking ability with the motor off. This is the same issue the old work truck I used had. Lets say you are trying to move a trailer on a hill and you kill the motor trying to maneuver. You have nearly zero brakes to stop from rolling. Mind you this old 6.9 idi is harder to kill than the F-superduty's 460, but it is still an issue I do not care for. Even with just the bronco, it has little brakes for moving the bronco around by hand.

That being said, I can completely live with this issue with the improvement in all around braking ability.

I do concede that the T19 is much less civilized than the zf transmissions, but it fits better with this projects overall style. The shifts feel very satisfyingly mechanical, a definite click out of gear and a click into the next gear. I can run highway and all but lunatic interstate speeds just fine with the t19 and 3.55 gears. Pretty close to the performance of my other trucks with 4:10 gears and the zf. I am sure fuel economy will settle down a bit better than it was before, but do not expect to hear that officially for a while (the shifting gears is too enjoyable to worry about the fuel economy for now).

I haven't been able to get the clutch switch figured out yet as wires are not simple to get to, but it is a factory wiring underneath for a manual now.

Bolts have been rechecked, and no particular new leaks.

Just a few hiccups...

Wipers quit working (connector was loose from swap) but fixed.

Removed the throttle lock due to alleged interference with clutch pedal (no interference, different problem) have not reinstalled yet.

Clutch start wiring needs to be resolved to get clutch safety switch working.

Reverse lights not currently working. Need to check switch.

The interior noise isn't really any louder that I can tell, it is just a different tone, but could be from failing muffler that needs replaced.

I suppose I need to start thinking about figuring out doing body work. It is one of the things I have never really tried before. If the bronco body is going to stay there is a lot of work that will need done.

If I decide to go with a bobbed bed/flatbed and a regular cab it would be substantially less work, but those are long term issues.

I guess that will conclude the posting in this thread as the project is pretty much complete. I will answer any questions I can and try to start a new thread for the next round of modifications...

The final thing I want to mention is a very big thank you to all of you who followed along, gave any insight, or posted information that I may have used to pull this off. Keeping this old beater going is a lot easier because of all the people who share their knowledge. That is why I try to post when I do work on the bronco to hopefully help others out.

Thank you.

[grumpin]

Post swap notes...

I have been enjoying driving the bronco full time for a while now. Turns out I like it even more. The brakes are mostly phenomenal. I pulled a trailer yesterday (my small dump trailer) which I scaled at 9700 lbs loaded total weight and 8050 lbs empty total weight. The stick shift is delightful to pull with compared to the old slush box. Always knowing what is going to happen and controlling the change to the next gear both up and down is a major improvment. The small hill I start from a stop sign on I was able to run about 10 mph faster at the top than normal from this difference. The brakes now are better with the loaded trailer in tow than they were with the stock booster/master with f250 brakes and empty bronco. It will stop more then you can comfortably handle. The one complaint with the hydroboost (the same as always) is the lack of braking ability with the motor off. This is the same issue the old work truck I used had. Lets say you are trying to move a trailer on a hill and you kill the motor trying to maneuver. You have nearly zero brakes to stop from rolling. Mind you this old 6.9 idi is harder to kill than the F-superduty's 460, but it is still an issue I do not care for. Even with just the bronco, it has little brakes for moving the bronco around by hand.

That being said, I can completely live with this issue with the improvement in all around braking ability.

I do concede that the T19 is much less civilized than the zf transmissions, but it fits better with this projects overall style. The shifts feel very satisfyingly mechanical, a definite click out of gear and a click into the next gear. I can run highway and all but lunatic interstate speeds just fine with the t19 and 3.55 gears. Pretty close to the performance of my other trucks with 4:10 gears and the zf. I am sure fuel economy will settle down a bit better than it was before, but do not expect to hear that officially for a while (the shifting gears is too enjoyable to worry about the fuel economy for now).

I haven't been able to get the clutch switch figured out yet as wires are not simple to get to, but it is a factory wiring underneath for a manual now.

Bolts have been rechecked, and no particular new leaks.

Just a few hiccups...

Wipers quit working (connector was loose from swap) but fixed.

Removed the throttle lock due to alleged interference with clutch pedal (no interference, different problem) have not reinstalled yet.

Clutch start wiring needs to be resolved to get clutch safety switch working.

Reverse lights not currently working. Need to check switch.

The interior noise isn't really any louder that I can tell, it is just a different tone, but could be from failing muffler that needs replaced.

I suppose I need to start thinking about figuring out doing body work. It is one of the things I have never really tried before. If the bronco body is going to stay there is a lot of work that will need done.

If I decide to go with a bobbed bed/flatbed and a regular cab it would be substantially less work, but those are long term issues.

I guess that will conclude the posting in this thread as the project is pretty much complete. I will answer any questions I can and try to start a new thread for the next round of modifications...

The final thing I want to mention is a very big thank you to all of you who followed along, gave any insight, or posted information that I may have used to pull this off. Keeping this old beater going is a lot easier because of all the people who share their knowledge. That is why I try to post when I do work on the bronco to hopefully help others out.

Thank you.

Thanks for the follow up! Great job! Neat to see these old rigs going strong!

[Ford F834]

Post swap notes...

I have been enjoying driving the bronco full time for a while now. Turns out I like it even more. The brakes are mostly phenomenal. I pulled a trailer yesterday (my small dump trailer) which I scaled at 9700 lbs loaded total weight and 8050 lbs empty total weight. The stick shift is delightful to pull with compared to the old slush box. Always knowing what is going to happen and controlling the change to the next gear both up and down is a major improvment. The small hill I start from a stop sign on I was able to run about 10 mph faster at the top than normal from this difference. The brakes now are better with the loaded trailer in tow than they were with the stock booster/master with f250 brakes and empty bronco. It will stop more then you can comfortably handle. The one complaint with the hydroboost (the same as always) is the lack of braking ability with the motor off. This is the same issue the old work truck I used had. Lets say you are trying to move a trailer on a hill and you kill the motor trying to maneuver. You have nearly zero brakes to stop from rolling. Mind you this old 6.9 idi is harder to kill than the F-superduty's 460, but it is still an issue I do not care for. Even with just the bronco, it has little brakes for moving the bronco around by hand.

That being said, I can completely live with this issue with the improvement in all around braking ability.

I do concede that the T19 is much less civilized than the zf transmissions, but it fits better with this projects overall style. The shifts feel very satisfyingly mechanical, a definite click out of gear and a click into the next gear. I can run highway and all but lunatic interstate speeds just fine with the t19 and 3.55 gears. Pretty close to the performance of my other trucks with 4:10 gears and the zf. I am sure fuel economy will settle down a bit better than it was before, but do not expect to hear that officially for a while (the shifting gears is too enjoyable to worry about the fuel economy for now).

I haven't been able to get the clutch switch figured out yet as wires are not simple to get to, but it is a factory wiring underneath for a manual now.

Bolts have been rechecked, and no particular new leaks.

Just a few hiccups...

Wipers quit working (connector was loose from swap) but fixed.

Removed the throttle lock due to alleged interference with clutch pedal (no interference, different problem) have not reinstalled yet.

Clutch start wiring needs to be resolved to get clutch safety switch working.

Reverse lights not currently working. Need to check switch.

The interior noise isn't really any louder that I can tell, it is just a different tone, but could be from failing muffler that needs replaced.

I suppose I need to start thinking about figuring out doing body work. It is one of the things I have never really tried before. If the bronco body is going to stay there is a lot of work that will need done.

If I decide to go with a bobbed bed/flatbed and a regular cab it would be substantially less work, but those are long term issues.

I guess that will conclude the posting in this thread as the project is pretty much complete. I will answer any questions I can and try to start a new thread for the next round of modifications...

The final thing I want to mention is a very big thank you to all of you who followed along, gave any insight, or posted information that I may have used to pull this off. Keeping this old beater going is a lot easier because of all the people who share their knowledge. That is why I try to post when I do work on the bronco to hopefully help others out.

Thank you.

Thanks for the follow up! I agree that is one slight downside to the hydroboost. From what I recall with the vacuum brake 6.9 IDI you had one good brake pump after the engine stalled because of the vacuum reservoir, and with the hydroboost it’s gone right away... and manually force braking with no hydraulic boost is a little worse than with a stalled engine and vacuum booster. The benefits are so huge that I don’t consider its behavior in a fail condition to be a real drawback.

How is the close ratio 1st gear working out with your towing requirements? Are you happy with it or wishing you went with the 5.11?

[Gary Lewis]

Post swap notes...

I have been enjoying driving the bronco full time for a while now. Turns out I like it even more. The brakes are mostly phenomenal. I pulled a trailer yesterday (my small dump trailer) which I scaled at 9700 lbs loaded total weight and 8050 lbs empty total weight. The stick shift is delightful to pull with compared to the old slush box. Always knowing what is going to happen and controlling the change to the next gear both up and down is a major improvment. The small hill I start from a stop sign on I was able to run about 10 mph faster at the top than normal from this difference. The brakes now are better with the loaded trailer in tow than they were with the stock booster/master with f250 brakes and empty bronco. It will stop more then you can comfortably handle. The one complaint with the hydroboost (the same as always) is the lack of braking ability with the motor off. This is the same issue the old work truck I used had. Lets say you are trying to move a trailer on a hill and you kill the motor trying to maneuver. You have nearly zero brakes to stop from rolling. Mind you this old 6.9 idi is harder to kill than the F-superduty's 460, but it is still an issue I do not care for. Even with just the bronco, it has little brakes for moving the bronco around by hand.

That being said, I can completely live with this issue with the improvement in all around braking ability.

I do concede that the T19 is much less civilized than the zf transmissions, but it fits better with this projects overall style. The shifts feel very satisfyingly mechanical, a definite click out of gear and a click into the next gear. I can run highway and all but lunatic interstate speeds just fine with the t19 and 3.55 gears. Pretty close to the performance of my other trucks with 4:10 gears and the zf. I am sure fuel economy will settle down a bit better than it was before, but do not expect to hear that officially for a while (the shifting gears is too enjoyable to worry about the fuel economy for now).

I haven't been able to get the clutch switch figured out yet as wires are not simple to get to, but it is a factory wiring underneath for a manual now.

Bolts have been rechecked, and no particular new leaks.

Just a few hiccups...

Wipers quit working (connector was loose from swap) but fixed.

Removed the throttle lock due to alleged interference with clutch pedal (no interference, different problem) have not reinstalled yet.

Clutch start wiring needs to be resolved to get clutch safety switch working.

Reverse lights not currently working. Need to check switch.

The interior noise isn't really any louder that I can tell, it is just a different tone, but could be from failing muffler that needs replaced.

I suppose I need to start thinking about figuring out doing body work. It is one of the things I have never really tried before. If the bronco body is going to stay there is a lot of work that will need done.

If I decide to go with a bobbed bed/flatbed and a regular cab it would be substantially less work, but those are long term issues.

I guess that will conclude the posting in this thread as the project is pretty much complete. I will answer any questions I can and try to start a new thread for the next round of modifications...

The final thing I want to mention is a very big thank you to all of you who followed along, gave any insight, or posted information that I may have used to pull this off. Keeping this old beater going is a lot easier because of all the people who share their knowledge. That is why I try to post when I do work on the bronco to hopefully help others out.

Thank you.

Congrat's! Well done!

Glad it worked out so well. And I cannot wait to get the same silly grin on my hydroboost swap.

[IDIBronco]

Thanks for the follow up! I agree that is one slight downside to the hydroboost. From what I recall with the vacuum brake 6.9 IDI you had one good brake pump after the engine stalled because of the vacuum reservoir, and with the hydroboost it’s gone right away... and manually force braking with no hydraulic boost is a little worse than with a stalled engine and vacuum booster. The benefits are so huge that I don’t consider its behavior in a fail condition to be a real drawback.

How is the close ratio 1st gear working out with your towing requirements? Are you happy with it or wishing you went with the 5.11?

The close ratio is exactly what I had expected considering it is the same setup as the f350. I just liked the idea of the lower first gear and the fact that wide ratio transmission only has like 70000 miles on it compared to the close ratios many miles (100000 plus). I still contend that a wide ratio transmission with the AA overdrive torque splitter might be the best option. If I can save up enough extra money I just might try it. I have several other modifications on the to do list first though. As far as starting out, it handled the stop sign (at bottom of hill) just fine, which is my measuring stick. The close to 10k lb load wasn't all that heavy, but a good starting place to move up from. I will have to try delivering with the bigger trailer, but I believe the results will be the same (only slower). The IDI's are many things, but fast really is not one of those things.

I have had several situations with the F-Superduty years past where you have a heavy trailer, heavy truck, and steep incline on a work site we were on and trying to get the trailer positioned and the engine dies (mainly due to lack of 4x4 low in that truck) and the brakes with a non running motor wouldn't hold a position. You end up putting the truck in gear and setting the parking brake then hopping out and putting a wheel chock behind a tire in order to get the truck restarted. It isn't so bad if someone else is spotting you backing up, but doing this maneuver solo is a nerve racking procedure. The same truck, only in f250, you could physically stand on the pedal and hold the position of truck and trailer while you restart. The hydroboost/master of F Superduty is like the pedal just goes away without the powersteering pump turning. It is those handful of times that are so vivid in my memory due to the stress level of the events. I imagine a non existant problem with an automatic.

 

[IDIBronco]

Congrat's! Well done!

Glad it worked out so well. And I cannot wait to get the same silly grin on my hydroboost swap.

An honorable thing to mention for you would be to note with my brake setup going from the F150/Bronco small vacuum booster and stock master cylinder to the hydroboost and 1 5/16" master cylinder with all f250 style brakes (dual piston calipers and larger wheel cylinders on 10.25) is the fact that I went from barely adequate brakes to better than I expected brakes. The first real brake test resulted in all the tools and spare parts I had onboard rearranging themselves in the cargo area. My tool box has been in the back for years with no issues moving around or tipping over, but it nearly made a full backflip. Reinforced the idea that I need to come up with a better, more permanent storage solution for my onboard tools. Just be sure you have your seatbelt adjusted comfortably and anything that can move tied down. The brakes were literally that much better. So long as you have that in order I am sure the grin will be hard to remove.

[Gary Lewis]

The close ratio is exactly what I had expected considering it is the same setup as the f350. I just liked the idea of the lower first gear and the fact that wide ratio transmission only has like 70000 miles on it compared to the close ratios many miles (100000 plus). I still contend that a wide ratio transmission with the AA overdrive torque splitter might be the best option. If I can save up enough extra money I just might try it. I have several other modifications on the to do list first though. As far as starting out, it handled the stop sign (at bottom of hill) just fine, which is my measuring stick. The close to 10k lb load wasn't all that heavy, but a good starting place to move up from. I will have to try delivering with the bigger trailer, but I believe the results will be the same (only slower). The IDI's are many things, but fast really is not one of those things.

I have had several situations with the F-Superduty years past where you have a heavy trailer, heavy truck, and steep incline on a work site we were on and trying to get the trailer positioned and the engine dies (mainly due to lack of 4x4 low in that truck) and the brakes with a non running motor wouldn't hold a position. You end up putting the truck in gear and setting the parking brake then hopping out and putting a wheel chock behind a tire in order to get the truck restarted. It isn't so bad if someone else is spotting you backing up, but doing this maneuver solo is a nerve racking procedure. The same truck, only in f250, you could physically stand on the pedal and hold the position of truck and trailer while you restart. The hydroboost/master of F Superduty is like the pedal just goes away without the powersteering pump turning. It is those handful of times that are so vivid in my memory due to the stress level of the events. I imagine a non existant problem with an automatic.

That doesn't sound like fun! And that concerns me since I plan to take Big Blue off road, where stalling could happen. But, I have a transfer case (BW1345) with a low gear and the ZF5 w/a 5.72 first gear, so hopefully the 460's compression will stop it if need be.

[Gary Lewis]

An honorable thing to mention for you would be to note with my brake setup going from the F150/Bronco small vacuum booster and stock master cylinder to the hydroboost and 1 5/16" master cylinder with all f250 style brakes (dual piston calipers and larger wheel cylinders on 10.25) is the fact that I went from barely adequate brakes to better than I expected brakes. The first real brake test resulted in all the tools and spare parts I had onboard rearranging themselves in the cargo area. My tool box has been in the back for years with no issues moving around or tipping over, but it nearly made a full backflip. Reinforced the idea that I need to come up with a better, more permanent storage solution for my onboard tools. Just be sure you have your seatbelt adjusted comfortably and anything that can move tied down. The brakes were literally that much better. So long as you have that in order I am sure the grin will be hard to remove.

I'm looking forward to it!

[IDIBronco]

That doesn't sound like fun! And that concerns me since I plan to take Big Blue off road, where stalling could happen. But, I have a transfer case (BW1345) with a low gear and the ZF5 w/a 5.72 first gear, so hopefully the 460's compression will stop it if need be.

It isn't probably as big of a deal as I made it out to be IF, and only IF, you understand and know it could happen. The first couple times it happened to me were a BIG surprise. I think you would probably be fine in a truck only situation. When you get a hydroboost going I recommend getting the truck rolling and shutting the engine off (with steering wheel not locked) and try the brakes in a safe spot (deserted parking lot or long driveway maybe) and test what brakes you have. Then let off the brakes and try again, remember there is a small canister on the side of the booster that is supposed to be a hydraulic accumulator (if I understand correctly) and store 1 pedal pump worth of braking. That one simple test will show you what happens and what it feels like. Should be a mandatory step in a hydroboost conversion process for the safety of everyone. Consider if the power steering belt broke or came off while driving... things that perhaps my younger self would have never given a second thought.