salans7 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just spoke to the mechanic who is looking at Rusty back in Longview. He confirms that the engine plate and dowel pins are installed. Unfortunately he won't be able to get Rusty on the lift until tomorrow morning, however he will send me pics whenever the tear down begins. Yet another reason to save up for a shop in the backyard here at the new house in Glen Rose. Of course I've been obsessed with trying to figure out what could have happened from afar and came across a Ford document on how to troubleshoot a broken flexplate and thought I would share. Flexplate_troubleshooting.pdf I once yanked a 400 and a C6 automatic out of an 87 Bronco in the junkyard, and there was no flexplate spacer to be found. So if that cobbled together truck didn't need one, there's no way Rusty needs one. Something funky is going on for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just spoke to the mechanic who is looking at Rusty back in Longview. He confirms that the engine plate and dowel pins are installed. Unfortunately he won't be able to get Rusty on the lift until tomorrow morning, however he will send me pics whenever the tear down begins. Yet another reason to save up for a shop in the backyard here at the new house in Glen Rose. Of course I've been obsessed with trying to figure out what could have happened from afar and came across a Ford document on how to troubleshoot a broken flexplate and thought I would share. Flexplate_troubleshooting.pdf I'm relieved that the locating pins and plate are there, although I'd have been willing to bet they were. But I don't think that document is a Ford doc. It says "Ford", but I think it is just a page from some mechanic's book called Altra. And it doesn't look like any Ford doc I've seen - and I have 100's of them. Speaking of those, I have all of the technical service bulletins from 1980 well into the 90's. But few of them are on the site - yet. You might look through the spreadsheet that I put together from a Ford doc that supposedly showed all of the TSB's. However, since then I've learned that there are a lot more TSB's than are on the spreadsheet. Anyway, you might look and see if you spot one that might be of interest and I can scan it in. Documentation/TSB's/TSB Index. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I once yanked a 400 and a C6 automatic out of an 87 Bronco in the junkyard, and there was no flexplate spacer to be found. So if that cobbled together truck didn't need one, there's no way Rusty needs one. Something funky is going on for sure. I agree, Shaun. The factory shop manual doesn't show one, nor does the master parts catalog. And there wasn't one on Dad's truck when I pulled it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClayJ Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just spoke to the mechanic who is looking at Rusty back in Longview. He confirms that the engine plate and dowel pins are installed. Unfortunately he won't be able to get Rusty on the lift until tomorrow morning, however he will send me pics whenever the tear down begins. Yet another reason to save up for a shop in the backyard here at the new house in Glen Rose. Of course I've been obsessed with trying to figure out what could have happened from afar and came across a Ford document on how to troubleshoot a broken flexplate and thought I would share. Flexplate_troubleshooting.pdf So I've been waiting all week on pins and needles to get an update on Rusty and exactly what the failure was that left me on the side of I20. Talked with the mechanic briefly Tuesday and was told he'd be able to get Rusty on the lift Wednesday morning. Since then no update other than a snippet from my FiL that the flexplate was definitely part of the failure, and that the mechanic was unsure he used the correct part. So there may have been confusion when ordering parts leading to either a Windsor or Cleveland flexplate being installed. This does not give me much confidence if true. 😫🤬Here's my question, would it be possible to install and then drive with the incorrect flexplate installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 So I've been waiting all week on pins and needles to get an update on Rusty and exactly what the failure was that left me on the side of I20. Talked with the mechanic briefly Tuesday and was told he'd be able to get Rusty on the lift Wednesday morning. Since then no update other than a snippet from my FiL that the flexplate was definitely part of the failure, and that the mechanic was unsure he used the correct part. So there may have been confusion when ordering parts leading to either a Windsor or Cleveland flexplate being installed. This does not give me much confidence if true. 😫🤬Here's my question, would it be possible to install and then drive with the incorrect flexplate installed? I think you've just figured out what the problem was. He used a Windsor flywheel and needed to space it back to fit the starter. I don't know that's the case, but it makes sense. As far as the question, I don't know. I don't think I have a Windsor flywheel to compare to an M flywheel. So I can't say. But our page on Documentation/Engines/Flywheels says a 351M or 400 with an auto takes a D1AZ 6375-A. And the D1 means it came out in 1971, and the A means it came out on a full-sized Ford car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClayJ Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 I think you've just figured out what the problem was. He used a Windsor flywheel and needed to space it back to fit the starter. I don't know that's the case, but it makes sense. As far as the question, I don't know. I don't think I have a Windsor flywheel to compare to an M flywheel. So I can't say. But our page on Documentation/Engines/Flywheels says a 351M or 400 with an auto takes a D1AZ 6375-A. And the D1 means it came out in 1971, and the A means it came out on a full-sized Ford car. I'm hoping nothing else was damaged when the flexplate broke, that way they can install the correct one and I can get him home. Talk about knock the wind out of your sails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 I'm hoping nothing else was damaged when the flexplate broke, that way they can install the correct one and I can get him home. Talk about knock the wind out of your sails. Have them check the starter’s gear closely. Make SURE the teeth aren’t damaged or they’ll tear up a new flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Voltura Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I think you've just figured out what the problem was. He used a Windsor flywheel and needed to space it back to fit the starter. I don't know that's the case, but it makes sense. As far as the question, I don't know. I don't think I have a Windsor flywheel to compare to an M flywheel. So I can't say. But our page on Documentation/Engines/Flywheels says a 351M or 400 with an auto takes a D1AZ 6375-A. And the D1 means it came out in 1971, and the A means it came out on a full-sized Ford car. Windsor flywheels and 400 flywheels are a direct interchange. Both are 164 tooth, 28oz imbalance, same bolt pattern, and both 14.24" diameter. Moreover they use the same P/N. On the topic of spacer plates, they are different thicknesses for manual and automatic transmissions which is why the nose cone on the starters are different. I believe that is why Ford motors do not need starter shims like Chevy's. You can run an engine/starter without a spacer plate, but the gears will never quite mesh as well as if it had one. This is especially true if you use a manual trans starter on an automatic without a spacer plate. We ran a series of tests on this after work one night basically checking it like backlash on a ring and pinion. Most of the time it'll work, but you'll have problems sooner if the teeth are in the least bit worn out. I always recommend the spacer plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Windsor flywheels and 400 flywheels are a direct interchange. Both are 164 tooth, 28oz imbalance, same bolt pattern, and both 14.24" diamter. I don't agree, Angelo. They are different part numbers, so they have to be different in some way. I can't tell you what the differences are, but they are surely different as Ford wouldn't issue different part numbers for the same part. So if they are the same diameter, tooth count, and imbalance, perhaps there's a different offset to them? Meaning that one is flat and another is dished? If so, that would mean the flexplate is always bent when attached to the wrong torque converter, which would cause it to crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Voltura Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Windsor flywheels and 400 flywheels are a direct interchange. Both are 164 tooth, 28oz imbalance, same bolt pattern, and both 14.24" diamter. I don't agree, Angelo. They are different part numbers, so they have to be different in some way. I can't tell you what the differences are, but they are surely different as Ford wouldn't issue different part numbers for the same part. So if they are the same diameter, tooth count, and imbalance, perhaps there's a different offset to them? Meaning that one is flat and another is dished? If so, that would mean the flexplate is always bent when attached to the wrong torque converter, which would cause it to crack. I'm willing to bet the other part number is for the 50oz wheel, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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