Dad's Truck Build

[PetesPonies]

Another thought - I gave a guy from church the 1356 that was on Huck. It obviously has the right outputs for the front and rear to take these driveshafts. I'm thinking about seeing if I can buy it back. Would want to have it gone through like the last one, but it sure simplifies the driveshaft situation.

Thoughts?

(Btw, what do you think of the color? )

Gary. First, I admit, I am not a POR 15 fan. However, I am a moisture cured urethane fan. So here is what I use, Master Series Silver. I may have spoken to this before. . . MS Silver is a moisture cured primer, that is intended to be top coated. It has better adhesion properties than POR, can be used on new or rusted metal ( unlike POR ) and I have been using it for nearly 20 years. I love it. I use it to seal all my welds, any rusted metal, etc. It doesn't have the advertising of POR . .but IMO, it is much better.http://www.nomorerust.com/gallery/_data/i/upload/2018/02/06/20180206114309-4877762f-me.jpg

[Gary Lewis]

Gary. First, I admit, I am not a POR 15 fan. However, I am a moisture cured urethane fan. So here is what I use, Master Series Silver. I may have spoken to this before. . . MS Silver is a moisture cured primer, that is intended to be top coated. It has better adhesion properties than POR, can be used on new or rusted metal ( unlike POR ) and I have been using it for nearly 20 years. I love it. I use it to seal all my welds, any rusted metal, etc. It doesn't have the advertising of POR . .but IMO, it is much better.

http://www.nomorerust.com/gallery/_data/i/upload/2018/02/06/20180206114309-4877762f-me.jpg

Jonathan - You and I have first dibbs on anything on the truck, and my name is in the hat for the t-case shifter.

Pete - When I run out of POR15, which will be a while, I'll give Master Series Silver a try. But how, or with what, do you top-coat? To me that is the big question.

As for adhesion to non-rusted metal, I've used POR15 many, many times that way and it has worked quite well - as long as the metal has been media-blasted and is clean and has "tooth". I'm not saying it is as good as MS, but it works extremely well. However, once the base coat is on the trouble begins, so I'm looking for a better approach to top-coating.

[Gary Lewis]

Jonathan - You and I have first dibbs on anything on the truck, and my name is in the hat for the t-case shifter.

Pete - When I run out of POR15, which will be a while, I'll give Master Series Silver a try. But how, or with what, do you top-coat? To me that is the big question.

As for adhesion to non-rusted metal, I've used POR15 many, many times that way and it has worked quite well - as long as the metal has been media-blasted and is clean and has "tooth". I'm not saying it is as good as MS, but it works extremely well. However, once the base coat is on the trouble begins, so I'm looking for a better approach to top-coating.

Talked to my brother today and we've agreed the plan to put the drivetrain in Dad's truck. Hopefully next week.

In the interim I have to get several things done:

• Rip 2x4's to fit between the rocker panel and the stiffening rib that's ~3" inside the rocker panel.

  I'll stack two ripped 2x4's on each side to provide clearance for the pads so they won't hit the rocker arm.

• Lift Huck's 460 off the engine stand, get the engine plate, run it through the parts washer and the blast cabinet, and then powder coat it.

• Round up the fasteners for the engine/tranny, t-case/tranny, mount/engine, and mount/perch, etc and clean, blast, and powder coat them

• Buy another pair of jack stands and prop the rear end up with the tires off the ground ~2" to match the front. That will ensure that the rear suspension is out of the equation and, therefore, things can't move when the engine & tranny are laid in. And that's important so the cab will come right back down from whence it came.

• Blast and paint the soon-to-be-delivered new engine mounts. This will be the first test of my plan to use POR15 as the base coat and Rustoleum Satin Black as the top coat.

• Figure out which way the input shaft goes into an E4OD.

And, when all of that is done I'll install the sway bar and tie rods.

[Ford F834]

Talked to my brother today and we've agreed the plan to put the drivetrain in Dad's truck. Hopefully next week.

In the interim I have to get several things done:

• Rip 2x4's to fit between the rocker panel and the stiffening rib that's ~3" inside the rocker panel.

  I'll stack two ripped 2x4's on each side to provide clearance for the pads so they won't hit the rocker arm.

• Lift Huck's 460 off the engine stand, get the engine plate, run it through the parts washer and the blast cabinet, and then powder coat it.

• Round up the fasteners for the engine/tranny, t-case/tranny, mount/engine, and mount/perch, etc and clean, blast, and powder coat them

• Buy another pair of jack stands and prop the rear end up with the tires off the ground ~2" to match the front. That will ensure that the rear suspension is out of the equation and, therefore, things can't move when the engine & tranny are laid in. And that's important so the cab will come right back down from whence it came.

• Blast and paint the soon-to-be-delivered new engine mounts. This will be the first test of my plan to use POR15 as the base coat and Rustoleum Satin Black as the top coat.

• Figure out which way the input shaft goes into an E4OD.

And, when all of that is done I'll install the sway bar and tie rods.

That’s an impressive list for the week and a solid plan! Exciting stuff... I’m glad your brother is coming to help with the big stuff. Two people definitely helps 🙂

Go ahead and ask Trent about the shifter. Maybe there might be a longer linkage arm from Huck that would work with no fabricated or modified parts? That’s kind of what I was hoping you might find for Dad’s (“as Ford would have done it”).

[PetesPonies]

Jonathan - You and I have first dibbs on anything on the truck, and my name is in the hat for the t-case shifter.

Pete - When I run out of POR15, which will be a while, I'll give Master Series Silver a try. But how, or with what, do you top-coat? To me that is the big question.

As for adhesion to non-rusted metal, I've used POR15 many, many times that way and it has worked quite well - as long as the metal has been media-blasted and is clean and has "tooth". I'm not saying it is as good as MS, but it works extremely well. However, once the base coat is on the trouble begins, so I'm looking for a better approach to top-coating.

Master Series can be top coated with anything. You can use your POR, seriously. The Master Series line included a product that is just like POR. Light sensitive etc, just like POR, but they don't recommend using it as the base. They recommend the silver. The silver primer is what the POR line does not have. Now Master Series does have a UV resistant coating as well, which is not light sensitive. So anything that was going to be exposed, your guard rails at your hose, etc . would best be coated with it . . of course on top of the Master Seriers Silver :) Note: I've seen POR peel. It's a very hard surface for sure. But I have witnessed the adhesion properties being a problem. And the fact that it can't be use don new clean metal says something right there.

[Gary Lewis]

Master Series can be top coated with anything. You can use your POR, seriously. The Master Series line included a product that is just like POR. Light sensitive etc, just like POR, but they don't recommend using it as the base. They recommend the silver. The silver primer is what the POR line does not have. Now Master Series does have a UV resistant coating as well, which is not light sensitive. So anything that was going to be exposed, your guard rails at your hose, etc . would best be coated with it . . of course on top of the Master Seriers Silver :) Note: I've seen POR peel. It's a very hard surface for sure. But I have witnessed the adhesion properties being a problem. And the fact that it can't be use don new clean metal says something right there.

Jonathan - I like lists. They motivate me. They give me something to shoot for by the end of the time period. But the biggest deal in that list is getting the engine plate and refinishing it. And I'm pretty sure I can do that in a day and refinish all the other parts the same day - with the exception of the engine mounts.

Yes, these are exciting times. However, Janey thinks that the week after next may be better for my brother to come down. That's because my SiL will come with him and take Janey somewhere fun, like shopping, and she doesn't think she will be ready for that next week. But, we shall see.

Pete - Speaking of the mounts, I will POR them and topcoat them with the satin black. As said, I've used POR on lots and lots of things, most of which have been either "new" metal or media-blasted metal, meaning none of it had any rust when painted. And none of the parts has ever peeled. My shop crane was new metal and only has the base POR on it. It's been on for at least 15 years and I've used the goody out of the crane, with no chipping or peeling of the paint.

Again, I'm not saying that POR is as good as Master Series. I'm just saying that it works quite well for me. And, as with everything, I think the preparation is the key. For instance, when the new engine mounts get in I'll rinse them with brake cleaner to get as much oil off as I can, and then media blast them down to bare metal with an etch. And I believe it is the etch that gives the "tooth" the paint sticks to.

And once the POR has cured to the point there is "finger drag" as the instructions say, I'll top-coat it with the spray satin black. That appears to let the POR set up sufficiently to know it'll cure, but it is still soft enough for the top coat to bond.

[Gary Lewis]

Jonathan - I like lists. They motivate me. They give me something to shoot for by the end of the time period. But the biggest deal in that list is getting the engine plate and refinishing it. And I'm pretty sure I can do that in a day and refinish all the other parts the same day - with the exception of the engine mounts.

Yes, these are exciting times. However, Janey thinks that the week after next may be better for my brother to come down. That's because my SiL will come with him and take Janey somewhere fun, like shopping, and she doesn't think she will be ready for that next week. But, we shall see.

Pete - Speaking of the mounts, I will POR them and topcoat them with the satin black. As said, I've used POR on lots and lots of things, most of which have been either "new" metal or media-blasted metal, meaning none of it had any rust when painted. And none of the parts has ever peeled. My shop crane was new metal and only has the base POR on it. It's been on for at least 15 years and I've used the goody out of the crane, with no chipping or peeling of the paint.

Again, I'm not saying that POR is as good as Master Series. I'm just saying that it works quite well for me. And, as with everything, I think the preparation is the key. For instance, when the new engine mounts get in I'll rinse them with brake cleaner to get as much oil off as I can, and then media blast them down to bare metal with an etch. And I believe it is the etch that gives the "tooth" the paint sticks to.

And once the POR has cured to the point there is "finger drag" as the instructions say, I'll top-coat it with the spray satin black. That appears to let the POR set up sufficiently to know it'll cure, but it is still soft enough for the top coat to bond.

Got a little done today. First, here are the tie rods and the sway bar. (Trust me, the sway bar was swaying, but at 1/60 of a second it doesn't appear to be. )

Then, I rounded up all the fasteners needed for the installation, I hope. Here's what I have:

- Torque converter to flexplate

- Flexplate through adapter to crankshaft

- Engine mounts to block

- Engine mounts to frame/perches

- Transfer case to transmission

- Transmission to engine

What am I missing?

Speaking of the tranny/engine bolts, here's what I found: 10 bolts 2 1/8" long, and 3 bolts 1 1/4" long. And for the E4OD/M-block combo the 1 1/4's are just right. So I suspect that some of those long bolts will shrink a bit as I want to use original-style bolts.

Also, I mentioned the adapter. It is shown below, but to help the reader understand, a 460's flywheel sits .300" further aft from the rear face of the block than that of the M-block's flywheel. So when you install a 460's transmission on an M-block the input shaft on the tranny doesn't fully engage the splines on the pressure plate or torque converter, whichever you have. And, the starter doesn't hit the flywheel properly as it registers on the transmission.

So a few years ago, as I was installing a ZF5 in Dad's truck, I designed this spacer, which is now available from TMeyer. It moves the flywheel back the required distance and resolves the problem. It worked well on Dad's truck with the pilot bearing that's shown in the pics, but for an automatic you remove the pilot bearing. I did and test-fit the flexplate on the adapter and it fit nicely - the torque converter's pilot is 1.373" OD and the adapter is 1.375" ID, so it is a close fit.

Then I test-fit the adapter, flexplate, and torque converter on the engine, and it fit perfectly. But I had to find the right place bolts to go into the crank. I had three sets: 1.750" long; 1.040" long; .693" long. The longest ones where those I bought for the ZF5 installation. The short ones are for an automatic transmission w/o an adapter. But the middle bed, I mean bolt, is just right. And all of this is just for the record if anyone is trying to follow in my footsteps.

[1986F150Six]

But I had to find the right place bolts to go into the crank. I had three sets: 1.750" long; 1.040" long; .693" long. The longest ones where those I bought for the ZF5 installation. The short ones are for an automatic transmission w/o an adapter. But the middle bed, I mean bolt, is just right. And all of this is just for the record if anyone is trying to follow in my footsteps.

So, does that mean that some of the bolts might be a "bear" to install?

 

[Gary Lewis]

But I had to find the right place bolts to go into the crank. I had three sets: 1.750" long; 1.040" long; .693" long. The longest ones where those I bought for the ZF5 installation. The short ones are for an automatic transmission w/o an adapter. But the middle bed, I mean bolt, is just right. And all of this is just for the record if anyone is trying to follow in my footsteps.

So, does that mean that some of the bolts might be a "bear" to install?

Lol! Yes, under normal circumstances some of those bolts are a bear to get to.

But, fortunately, these bolts are easy to get to the way we are going to do it. All of the tranny/engine bolts will be easily accessible from above. And the torque converter nuts are a piece of cake - I have them on finger-tight right now and did it from above. So it'll be easy to do rather than a bear.

And now for a look ahead at today's activities. We just got back from Janey's 2nd checkup and she passed with flying colors. But we leave the house on these mornings a bit earlier than we normally get up and around, so we are now taking a break and drinking a cup of coffee/tea.

However, I've already turned the heater in the parts washer on as I plan to pull the engine plate off Huck's 460 and de-grunge it today. And, I plan to shorten four of the tranny/engine bolts. Then I'll wash all the fasteners in the parts washer as I'm washing the plate so everything is ready to media-blast and powder coat tomorrow.

But, in order to powder coat those parts the tie rods and sway bar have to come out of the paint/powder booth. So I may actually install them today instead of lay them down someplace.

[Gary Lewis]

Lol! Yes, under normal circumstances some of those bolts are a bear to get to.

But, fortunately, these bolts are easy to get to the way we are going to do it. All of the tranny/engine bolts will be easily accessible from above. And the torque converter nuts are a piece of cake - I have them on finger-tight right now and did it from above. So it'll be easy to do rather than a bear.

And now for a look ahead at today's activities. We just got back from Janey's 2nd checkup and she passed with flying colors. But we leave the house on these mornings a bit earlier than we normally get up and around, so we are now taking a break and drinking a cup of coffee/tea.

However, I've already turned the heater in the parts washer on as I plan to pull the engine plate off Huck's 460 and de-grunge it today. And, I plan to shorten four of the tranny/engine bolts. Then I'll wash all the fasteners in the parts washer as I'm washing the plate so everything is ready to media-blast and powder coat tomorrow.

But, in order to powder coat those parts the tie rods and sway bar have to come out of the paint/powder booth. So I may actually install them today instead of lay them down someplace.

Got quite a bit done today, but I also dodged a cannon ball.

You may remember a discussion about me finding two flexplates and not knowing from whence they came. And, that I counted teeth and was sure that they were 180-tooth flexplates, which means they are either for a 335 or 385-series engine. But, since a 385's flexplate won't bolt on a 335 crank and these bolted on they must be for a 335. Right?

Well, today I got to thinking more about it and realized I've only had three 335 engines, and only one of those had a flexplate. Further, that flexplate had to have been on Rusty when I sold him.

So, what do I have bolted onto Dad's engine? I pulled it off and counted - 164 teeth. A Windsor!

Given that, I turned to our handy dandy page on flywheels (Engines/Flywheels) and found the part number: D1AZ 6375-A. A quick search turned up several hits, but the cheapest was Rock Auto, again. So, it is on order for ~$28 + $10 shipping, and is supposed to be here on April 1st. (I wonder if that's a joke?)

In addition, I pulled Huck's 460 off the engine stand and got the engine plate off the back. And I was reminded of something I need to say every time I think of it: When you are designing a shop crane and an engine stand make SURE that the legs will play nicely with each other. I didn't, and am reminded of that each and every time I try to pick and engine off the stand. The legs hit each other and won't allow the engine stand to "nest" between the shop crane's legs.

Anyway, I got the engine plate off and put it in the parts washer, gunk and all. In fact, there was so much gunk that it clogged the 2nd-stage filter in the parts washer. But with the filter cleaned the hot Simple Green did its thing and the plate came out oil-free.

Then, realizing that if I had the parts media blasted today I could powder coat tomorrow and then install the sway bar and tie rods when the parts were baking, I decided to change my plans and blast today. So I took the engine plate and handful of fasteners as well as the new engine mounts to the blast cabinet. And here's what came out:

And, here's the engine plate. The one on the left is from a 335 Series engine, has a part number of D7TE 7007-A and is marked D7TE-A. That's the one that came on Dad's engine. The one on the right is from Huck and is marked E7TE 6A375-EA, which is probably part number E7TE 7007-A. However, the 1994 version of the master parts catalog only shows that as being used with a C6, not an E4OD. But, it doesn't show any engine plate for an E4OD and that is an error. So, I'm betting this is the right one. In any event, it is the one I'm going to use.