Dad's Truck Build

[Steve83]

...in order to know where to place the crossmember.

I'm not saying this is the only or best way to do it; only that it's an option for you to consider. But you COULD set the trans in the frame (on a 2x4 at the front) bolted to the crossmember, whose ends are padded with cardboard. Then bring the engine in, bolt it to the bellhousing, then set it onto the frame perches, sliding the crossmember as needed. Then remove the pads, drill the holes (if necessary), and bolt the Xmbr in.

[Gary Lewis]

...in order to know where to place the crossmember.

I'm not saying this is the only or best way to do it; only that it's an option for you to consider. But you COULD set the trans in the frame (on a 2x4 at the front) bolted to the crossmember, whose ends are padded with cardboard. Then bring the engine in, bolt it to the bellhousing, then set it onto the frame perches, sliding the crossmember as needed. Then remove the pads, drill the holes (if necessary), and bolt the Xmbr in.

Steve & Jonathan - You both seem to think that I either need the tranny attached to the engine or need to get it in the truck first, before the engine. That seems to be telling me that you think I'll have problems getting the tranny in after the engine is in place. Right?

If so, then I need to do some serious measuring. Perhaps I can this afternoon after/before church and after getting another coat on the parts being painted.

For this exercise the cab will be way up on the lift, so we will have access from the front and the driver's side. But the crane has a limit of how far it can go towards the rear with the boom fully extended, so I'd better check that out to ensure I can get the tranny over the engine and then behind it.

Steve - I'd rather not slide the crossmember on the frame as it'll scratch both of them. But I could remove the mount and put a 2x4 at both the front and the rear, sufficiently padded, and that might not scratch things. But, if I can lay the engine in and come over it with the tranny and have plenty of clearance, then I won't have to slide anything.

Jonathan - One worry I have is that Tim has a lift plate screwed into the carb mount. It is obviously adequate for the engine as he's already lifted it that way. But I am leery of adding the weight of the transmission, flex plate, and torque converter to that.

I could use chains to the front and rear of the engine, but that risks scratching something. Or, I could use ratchet straps, both front and rear, to take the load of the tranny up to the load equalizer and keep the weight off the four little 1/4" bolts that go into an aluminum intake.

Guys - Thanks for helping me think through this. I really do appreciate it. Please keep those ideas coming.

[85lebaront2]

Steve & Jonathan - You both seem to think that I either need the tranny attached to the engine or need to get it in the truck first, before the engine. That seems to be telling me that you think I'll have problems getting the tranny in after the engine is in place. Right?

If so, then I need to do some serious measuring. Perhaps I can this afternoon after/before church and after getting another coat on the parts being painted.

For this exercise the cab will be way up on the lift, so we will have access from the front and the driver's side. But the crane has a limit of how far it can go towards the rear with the boom fully extended, so I'd better check that out to ensure I can get the tranny over the engine and then behind it.

Steve - I'd rather not slide the crossmember on the frame as it'll scratch both of them. But I could remove the mount and put a 2x4 at both the front and the rear, sufficiently padded, and that might not scratch things. But, if I can lay the engine in and come over it with the tranny and have plenty of clearance, then I won't have to slide anything.

Jonathan - One worry I have is that Tim has a lift plate screwed into the carb mount. It is obviously adequate for the engine as he's already lifted it that way. But I am leery of adding the weight of the transmission, flex plate, and torque converter to that.

I could use chains to the front and rear of the engine, but that risks scratching something. Or, I could use ratchet straps, both front and rear, to take the load of the tranny up to the load equalizer and keep the weight off the four little 1/4" bolts that go into an aluminum intake.

Guys - Thanks for helping me think through this. I really do appreciate it. Please keep those ideas coming.

I have this old Mac Tools relic.

[Gary Lewis]

I have this old Mac Tools relic.It can be attached to intake manifold bolts, accessory bracket holes in the heads for lifting points, I can use the Acme thread leveling screw and set pretty much any angle I need.

Bill - That looks longer than my HF one, which is only 22" long and has a off-set of 9". And, at first blush, I don't think that's enough to compensate for a 22" long engine and a 30" long tranny - from the front face to the rear mount.

But, I have worked out that I could pick the tranny up with the crane and suspend it from the powder coating cart using ratchet straps. Then pick up the engine/flywheel/torque converter combo, maybe using 7/16" bolts into the heads f/r and balance that with the load balancer. Then mate it to the tranny and use a couple of ratchet straps for safety to hook into the rear of the tranny where the t-case mounts and balance things using the straps and the load balancer.

Having said that, I've also worked out that I can lay the parts in piecemeal. In the pic below the crane's boom is all the way in, meaning to the left, and the hook is directly above the engine mounts, which are essentially at the mid-point of the engine. So I could lay the engine in easily with the crane in that position, prop it up, and then add the flywheel and torque converter.

And, I can extend the boom and/or roll the crane forward and the end of the boom could be up to 42" further to the rear - which puts it directly over where I think the transmission mount will go. And that's clearly well past the center of gravity for the transmission. In other words, there's plenty of "reach" to allow lowering the tranny behind the engine and then bringing it forward to mate with the engine.

I know some of you think I need to put the engine/flywheel/torque converter/tranny combo in as a unit. And while it looks like I can do that, I don't see the advantage of that versus placing things in a piece at a time. In fact, I see disadvantages as the heavier the load is the harder it is to precisely locate the crane.

But I'm very willing to listen if you see something I don't see. What am I missing?

[Nothing Special]

.... But I'm very willing to listen if you see something I don't see. What am I missing?

You might already see this, but if you extend the boom on that engine hoist far enough to reach the transmission past the engine you are likely to have the cg of the whole shootin' match past the wheels on the hoist, which would not be good for the finish! You can still do it, but you might want to pile some bags of sandblasting media on the other end.

 

[Gary Lewis]

.... But I'm very willing to listen if you see something I don't see. What am I missing?

You might already see this, but if you extend the boom on that engine hoist far enough to reach the transmission past the engine you are likely to have the cg of the whole shootin' match past the wheels on the hoist, which would not be good for the finish! You can still do it, but you might want to pile some bags of sandblasting media on the other end.

Bob - Good point. I've been known to use blast media as ballast. However, in this case it won't be needed. As you can see below, I have the front of the truck on jack stands, which gives ~2" of clearance between the bottom of the diff and the legs of the crane. So I can pull the legs out the whole way, which puts the front wheels past the hook on the boom.

 

And, on other aspects of this quest, I pulled the driveshafts out that came on Huck. Unfortunately the rear shaft uses a slip yoke and I had the BW1356 set up with a yoke for a u-joint, which is what Dad's NP208 has.

So, do I have the original NP208 rebuilt, which will require having the small crack welded up, convert the 1356 to slip yoke, or find another driveshaft that is the right length? Thoughts?

And, to finish the saga on painting the tie rods and front sway bar, I gave them another coat of the chassis black top coat today, which was well within the 72-hour window. But there were still lots of streaks, brush marks, etc. So I grabbed a can of Rustoleum Satin Black and sprayed them while the top coat was still tacky. Fixed the streak problem and appears to have helped with the brush marks. We shall see. But, I think that will be my approach in the future when using POR15 - use the base coat and then spray it while the base coat is tacky. Far, far easier.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - Good point. I've been known to use blast media as ballast. However, in this case it won't be needed. As you can see below, I have the front of the truck on jack stands, which gives ~2" of clearance between the bottom of the diff and the legs of the crane. So I can pull the legs out the whole way, which puts the front wheels past the hook on the boom.

 

And, on other aspects of this quest, I pulled the driveshafts out that came on Huck. Unfortunately the rear shaft uses a slip yoke and I had the BW1356 set up with a yoke for a u-joint, which is what Dad's NP208 has.

So, do I have the original NP208 rebuilt, which will require having the small crack welded up, convert the 1356 to slip yoke, or find another driveshaft that is the right length? Thoughts?

And, to finish the saga on painting the tie rods and front sway bar, I gave them another coat of the chassis black top coat today, which was well within the 72-hour window. But there were still lots of streaks, brush marks, etc. So I grabbed a can of Rustoleum Satin Black and sprayed them while the top coat was still tacky. Fixed the streak problem and appears to have helped with the brush marks. We shall see. But, I think that will be my approach in the future when using POR15 - use the base coat and then spray it while the base coat is tacky. Far, far easier.

Another thought - I gave a guy from church the 1356 that was on Huck. It obviously has the right outputs for the front and rear to take these driveshafts. I'm thinking about seeing if I can buy it back. Would want to have it gone through like the last one, but it sure simplifies the driveshaft situation.

Thoughts?

(Btw, what do you think of the color? )

[Steve83]

Another thought - I gave a guy from church the 1356 that was on Huck. It obviously has the right outputs for the front and rear to take these driveshafts. I'm thinking about seeing if I can buy it back. Would want to have it gone through like the last one, but it sure simplifies the driveshaft situation.

Thoughts?

(Btw, what do you think of the color? )

I don't like the idea of trying to stab the trans over the engine under the body into place. And I've pulled & stabbed a couple of engine/trans combos - it's not fun. I prefer setting the trans onto the chassis, and then mating the engine to it. If you don't want to slide the trans on the frame, you can reach over the engine & lift it again - the engine should balance easily on its mounts. So my vote is: put the trans (w/torque converter) on pads on the frame (~3" too far back - no measuring); bolt the engine (w/flexplate) down; mate the bellhousing to the block; bolt the crossmember down; hang the transfer case.I'd use a 1356 before any other. It's easy to mod the pump stay arm yourself - no need to pay someone to go through it.

[Ford F834]

Another thought - I gave a guy from church the 1356 that was on Huck. It obviously has the right outputs for the front and rear to take these driveshafts. I'm thinking about seeing if I can buy it back. Would want to have it gone through like the last one, but it sure simplifies the driveshaft situation.

Thoughts?

(Btw, what do you think of the color? )

Gary, regarding the engine & transmission install, I think your plan to install them separately makes good sense. Your situation of having the body off makes any route you choose pretty easy, and having the E4OD in a sling like that is probably as easy as it is going to get as far as joining them.As far as the transfer cases I’m not quite following. You have the original NP208 but it needs rebuilt and a crack welded... check. I take it Dad’s driveshafts won’t work anyway because of the E4OD length. That route sounds like you don’t have anything going for it. You have a rebuilt BW1356 but the yokes are wrong for the Huck driveshafts? That’s where I get lost. What yoke(s) does it have? They are different than the ones from what were on Huck’s 1356? Won’t you need a new rear shaft anyway because of the length difference between the 10.25” and 9” snout lengths? Or are they close? I guess if it were me I would lean toward running the rebuilt 1356 or buy back Huck’s 1356 just because at least the front shaft would be the right length, and yoke I assume. Then you only need the rear shaft, and the yoke if it needs changed just slides off in your hand. Regarding the 1345 vs 1356 discussion, was that entering Big Blue’s transfer case into the list of possibilities?

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, regarding the engine & transmission install, I think your plan to install them separately makes good sense. Your situation of having the body off makes any route you choose pretty easy, and having the E4OD in a sling like that is probably as easy as it is going to get as far as joining them.As far as the transfer cases I’m not quite following. You have the original NP208 but it needs rebuilt and a crack welded... check. I take it Dad’s driveshafts won’t work anyway because of the E4OD length. That route sounds like you don’t have anything going for it. You have a rebuilt BW1356 but the yokes are wrong for the Huck driveshafts? That’s where I get lost. What yoke(s) does it have? They are different than the ones from what were on Huck’s 1356? Won’t you need a new rear shaft anyway because of the length difference between the 10.25” and 9” snout lengths? Or are they close? I guess if it were me I would lean toward running the rebuilt 1356 or buy back Huck’s 1356 just because at least the front shaft would be the right length, and yoke I assume. Then you only need the rear shaft, and the yoke if it needs changed just slides off in your hand. Regarding the 1345 vs 1356 discussion, was that entering Big Blue’s transfer case into the list of possibilities?

Steve - The cab is going to be so far up it won't be an issue, so I'm not worried about that aspect of it. (And believe me, I'm very careful around the cab.)

But, your idea of laying the tranny in ahead of the engine has merit. It is one more step, but wouldn't be that much more work. I'll cogitate on that. Thanks.

Jonathan - I hadn't thought about the different snout lengths for the 10.25 vs 9". Yipes! So it isn't likely that I'll find a driveshaft with the right configuration and length to fit. Which means I may have to have a driveshaft made. Perhaps they can cut down the essentially new one I have for Dad's C6/208/9" combo.

Now for the other bits. The rebuilt 1356 was reconfigured to have the right yokes to match Dad's truck, which means the small cup yoke front and rear. The thought was that I could then re-use the original driveshaft.

But the rear driveshaft off Huck uses a a slip yoke, so that's not going to work. Are you saying that I can easily un-bolt the cup yoke from the re-built 1356 and bolt on a slip yoke from Huck's 1356?

As for the front shaft, is the 1356's yoke in a different spot than where a 208's yoke would have been, assuming the same transmission? If so, then Huck's front driveshaft should work, assuming that the u-joints are the right size.

And yes, at one point I was considering installing the rebuilt 1356 in Big Blue when I put the EFI on and the ZF5 in, and then having his 1345 rebuilt to use in Dad's truck. And, as I think about it, that may still be an option. If Huck's rear shaft would, by some miracle, work if the 1345 had a slip yoke, then I could go that way and find the slip yoke.

Bottom Line: I think the decision on what t-case and driveshaft to use needs to wait until I can do some measuring. I remember seeing that someone makes custom driveshafts for $300. But I can probably get Dad's "new" one cut down for that price. Or, I can get a t-case rebuilt for that. So, I need to wait until I get the engine and tranny in, steering in, and drop the truck down on the ground for some measurements.

Thoughts?