Dad's Truck Build

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I REALLY wish you were not so far. I would absolutely love to come help you and your brother get that engine in. Not that you need the help necessarily, but I would selfishly enjoy being there for it!

Or, he could wait until September and there would be many hands to assist!

Thanks, guys! Yes, September would be a good time to do it. But, I have a goal of having it in the show, replete with engine, tranny, t-case, driveshafts, wheels, etc. And I doubt the night before would be enough time to lay the engine/tranny in, measure for the crossmember, spot and drill the holes, touch up the bare metal, and then bolt the crossmember in.

Plus, my bro wants to be part of it, so that we shall do! It was his dad's truck as well, so he has an interest.

Speaking of the crossmember, I've been worried that it wouldn't fit right, but with some fairly-precise measuring it looks like it will fit perfectly - although I'm not about to drill holes until the engine/tranny are in and we know exactly. (Yes, I know it should fit as the later trucks had essentially the same frame and came with the E4OD, but still....)

Also, I've been scoping out how to lay the engine and tranny in. Looks like I can come in from the driver's side - through the door into the other room, for those that have been in the shop. That way I don't have to worry about the legs of the shop crane hitting the front swing arms. But, I'll need to do some more measuring to ensure that will work.

And, I'm thinking about installing the engine, supporting the rear of it on a jack stand, and then laying the tranny in behind it. That would mean I don't have to figure out how to marry the engine and tranny "in the air". I only have one shop crane, so would have to pick the tranny up off the engine stand it is on, lay it on something like the tool cart but with padding so it doesn't get scratched, then pick the engine up, swing it around to meet up with the tranny, bolt them together, and then use a ratchet strap around the back of the tranny to level the combo up.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Steve83]

That’s a HEAVY Bronco! Why so much?

Bumpers, 12K winch, other stuff stored inside the bumpers, extra battery, OBA, extra wiring, all the options I've added...

re the console, that’s the curse of living in the UV belt.

I'm not sure I can buy that - the consoles I have might have been exposed to slightly less UV than at latitudes where the sun gets farther under the roof, but not by THAT much.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, guys! Yes, September would be a good time to do it. But, I have a goal of having it in the show, replete with engine, tranny, t-case, driveshafts, wheels, etc. And I doubt the night before would be enough time to lay the engine/tranny in, measure for the crossmember, spot and drill the holes, touch up the bare metal, and then bolt the crossmember in.

Plus, my bro wants to be part of it, so that we shall do! It was his dad's truck as well, so he has an interest.

Speaking of the crossmember, I've been worried that it wouldn't fit right, but with some fairly-precise measuring it looks like it will fit perfectly - although I'm not about to drill holes until the engine/tranny are in and we know exactly. (Yes, I know it should fit as the later trucks had essentially the same frame and came with the E4OD, but still....)

Also, I've been scoping out how to lay the engine and tranny in. Looks like I can come in from the driver's side - through the door into the other room, for those that have been in the shop. That way I don't have to worry about the legs of the shop crane hitting the front swing arms. But, I'll need to do some more measuring to ensure that will work.

And, I'm thinking about installing the engine, supporting the rear of it on a jack stand, and then laying the tranny in behind it. That would mean I don't have to figure out how to marry the engine and tranny "in the air". I only have one shop crane, so would have to pick the tranny up off the engine stand it is on, lay it on something like the tool cart but with padding so it doesn't get scratched, then pick the engine up, swing it around to meet up with the tranny, bolt them together, and then use a ratchet strap around the back of the tranny to level the combo up.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Didn't get a lot done today, but some:

• Prep'd the sway bar and tie rods for POR15'ing. But, since you need to top-coat POR15 w/in 6 hours of applying it I'll wait until tomorrow to do that.

• Checked the transmission crossmember for fitment, as previously discussed. It looks like it'll fit nicely.

• Ordered new engine "isolators", aka mounts. I pulled the old ones out and cleaned them up, but realized that they've seen better days. So I went to our parts list on the 351M/400 engines and found that I need E1TZ 6038-A and -B. Googled that and Amazon said they have them but they don't fit my truck. And, they want something like $50/ea for them. However, Rock Auto says they have them, they do fit, and they want $5/ea. Guess where I bought them?

• Got the shop crane out and did some checking. Doesn't look like coming in from the side is a good option. The problem is that the front axle limits where the legs of the shop crane go. And where I think I'd like to put the left leg, when coming in from the driver's side, is exactly where the axle is.

  So it looks like coming in from the front is the way to go. The legs on the crane will go below the D44 if I raise things up about 2" from "ground height". So, I think I'll put jack stands under the outboard ends of the TTB's where the radius arms attach. That way I'll have plenty of clearance for the legs. And, doing it that way the truck isn't going to be moving, like it might as the weight of the engine and tranny hit the supsension and the tires move. And I sure don't want it to move as the cab needs to come right back where it was originally - without hitting the bed. (The rear wheels will be chocked.)

So, with that said I'm back to the question of whether I put the engine and tranny in as a unit, or put the engine in and then the tranny. I'm leaning to the latter since I don't have to set the tranny on the shop cart, a spare tire, or somesuch in order to align it with the engine. With my brother here we can set the engine in place, prop the rear of it up with a jack stand, and then come back with the tranny and ease it in place and bolt it down. Prop the rear of the tranny up with the jack stand and position the crossmember, mark the holes and drill them, and bolt it all down. Then we can add the transfer case. Sounds like a good day's work if all the bits an pieces are ready. Yes?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Concerns?

[grumpin]

They need to flip that Bronco, it's done on top!

Why is that heavy? My 1992 label says 6300 lbs. Front 2800, rear 3770.

I answered my own question after looking further in to your post...doh!

[Steve83]

...the question of whether I put the engine and tranny in as a unit, or put the engine in and then the tranny.

Why did you exclude the option of putting the trans in, then the engine? That worked very smoothly for me, but the body out of the way. Read this & the NEXT several captions:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/1066261/thumbnail/07in1.jpg

[Gary Lewis]

...the question of whether I put the engine and tranny in as a unit, or put the engine in and then the tranny.

Why did you exclude the option of putting the trans in, then the engine? That worked very smoothly for me, but the body out of the way. Read this & the NEXT several captions:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/1066261/thumbnail/07in1.jpg

That would work if the transmission crossmember were in place - or if I already had holes in the frame for it. But I don't exactly know where it goes since the E4OD is several inches longer. than both the C6 and Zf5, for which I already have holes. So I need the engine in place, and then the tranny, in order to know where to place the crossmember.

[Ford F834]

That would work if the transmission crossmember were in place - or if I already had holes in the frame for it. But I don't exactly know where it goes since the E4OD is several inches longer. than both the C6 and Zf5, for which I already have holes. So I need the engine in place, and then the tranny, in order to know where to place the crossmember.

Gary, I don’t know that there is an obviously better or worse way to do this... but my preference would be to mate them and drop it in as a single unit. The reason I would choose that is because transmissions generally don’t have many good ways to get hold of them and manipulate them to line them up. If you are really trying to mate and install them with zero finish damage I think you would have the best luck putting the transmission in some kind of a padded cradle, and manipulating the engine on the hoist to line them up and bolt them together. If the engine is mounted, and you are raising the transmission on a jack, you are pretty much limited to up and down, and maybe some for and aft tilt by lifting the engine. Side to side tilt or rotation is always the difficult part with the transmission on a jack. This will be all that much more difficult if you are worried about scratching things. A dedicated true transmission jack would help, but nothing beats the control you have with the hoist. Granted the two together will be heavier and more awkward, but with two of you it should be a gentle and exact operation. Like I said I don’t think there is a wrong way, but that’s what I would lean towards if it were me.

[Gary Lewis]

That would work if the transmission crossmember were in place - or if I already had holes in the frame for it. But I don't exactly know where it goes since the E4OD is several inches longer. than both the C6 and Zf5, for which I already have holes. So I need the engine in place, and then the tranny, in order to know where to place the crossmember.

Only got a little bit done today:

Found two flywheels/flexplates. Not sure why I have two, but they appear to be the right ones for a 335 Series engine as they bolt up to the crank on Dad's engine. So far I've not found any #'s on them, but I can confirm they are the right ones as they have a 180-tooth ring gear just like the 460, but have a smaller hub, so can't be interchanged. Anyway, one of them has really good teeth on the ring gear, so that's the one I'll use.

And, I pulled out one "Plate Assy. (Engine Rear)", and I'm sure it is for the 335 Series engines. I compared it to the one on the 460 out of Huck, which had an E4OD behind it, and it looks identical with the exception of 3 small screw holes to attach an inspection cover - the 335 one has them and the 385 one doesn't. I guess I'll pull Huck's engine off the stand and get that plate off, just to make sure.

Bill - do you have an inspection cover for the torque converter on Darth?

I also pulled the adapter I made to space the flywheel on a 335 back to where it should be on a 385. I'll use it and be able to use a 460's starter as it registers on the transmission, which is a 460's transmission.

And, I found the place bolts for the flywheel, the mount/isolator bolts, the tranny/engine bolts, and the t-case/tranny bolts. I'll have to blast and PC those to be ready to install the engine, tranny, and t-case.

But, now for the lament. Did I ever tell you that I don't like to paint? Well, I put on two coats of POR15 Rust Preventive Coating in gray on the tie rods and front sway bar. Heretofore I've used their gloss black, and have always complained that it is hard to tell where the quasi-cured base coat is when you put their chassis back top coat on as it goes on shiny and you can't tell the difference. So, I thought gray would be just the ticket as you can easily tell what's what. Yep, sure can. But, covering the gray isn't all that easy. I got two coats of chassis black on and will have to hit it again tomorrow.

In future I might go to a chassis black spray paint to cover the POR15. Apparently if you put it on while the POR is still sticky it'll bond, and it sure would be easier and smoother.

[85lebaront2]

Only got a little bit done today:

Found two flywheels/flexplates. Not sure why I have two, but they appear to be the right ones for a 335 Series engine as they bolt up to the crank on Dad's engine. So far I've not found any #'s on them, but I can confirm they are the right ones as they have a 180-tooth ring gear just like the 460, but have a smaller hub, so can't be interchanged. Anyway, one of them has really good teeth on the ring gear, so that's the one I'll use.

And, I pulled out one "Plate Assy. (Engine Rear)", and I'm sure it is for the 335 Series engines. I compared it to the one on the 460 out of Huck, which had an E4OD behind it, and it looks identical with the exception of 3 small screw holes to attach an inspection cover - the 335 one has them and the 385 one doesn't. I guess I'll pull Huck's engine off the stand and get that plate off, just to make sure.

Bill - do you have an inspection cover for the torque converter on Darth?

I also pulled the adapter I made to space the flywheel on a 335 back to where it should be on a 385. I'll use it and be able to use a 460's starter as it registers on the transmission, which is a 460's transmission.

And, I found the place bolts for the flywheel, the mount/isolator bolts, the tranny/engine bolts, and the t-case/tranny bolts. I'll have to blast and PC those to be ready to install the engine, tranny, and t-case.

But, now for the lament. Did I ever tell you that I don't like to paint? Well, I put on two coats of POR15 Rust Preventive Coating in gray on the tie rods and front sway bar. Heretofore I've used their gloss black, and have always complained that it is hard to tell where the quasi-cured base coat is when you put their chassis back top coat on as it goes on shiny and you can't tell the difference. So, I thought gray would be just the ticket as you can easily tell what's what. Yep, sure can. But, covering the gray isn't all that easy. I got two coats of chassis black on and will have to hit it again tomorrow.

In future I might go to a chassis black spray paint to cover the POR15. Apparently if you put it on while the POR is still sticky it'll bond, and it sure would be easier and smoother.

Yes, there is a two bolt "inspection" plate on Darth, that's how you access the torque converter nuts, E4OD converter drain is on the outer diameter of the converter and is accessed through the round hole with plastic plug on the bottom of the converter housing.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I don’t know that there is an obviously better or worse way to do this... but my preference would be to mate them and drop it in as a single unit. The reason I would choose that is because transmissions generally don’t have many good ways to get hold of them and manipulate them to line them up. If you are really trying to mate and install them with zero finish damage I think you would have the best luck putting the transmission in some kind of a padded cradle, and manipulating the engine on the hoist to line them up and bolt them together. If the engine is mounted, and you are raising the transmission on a jack, you are pretty much limited to up and down, and maybe some for and aft tilt by lifting the engine. Side to side tilt or rotation is always the difficult part with the transmission on a jack. This will be all that much more difficult if you are worried about scratching things. A dedicated true transmission jack would help, but nothing beats the control you have with the hoist. Granted the two together will be heavier and more awkward, but with two of you it should be a gentle and exact operation. Like I said I don’t think there is a wrong way, but that’s what I would lean towards if it were me.

Bill - Thanks. Yes, I have the plastic plug. But I wonder if under all the crud on the 460's engine plate there are holes. I'll pull that thing off and clean it up to find out. It is gross!

Jonathan - I'll have to look at the tranny tomorrow, but I can come under the front and the rear with large ratchet straps, as shown below when I took that monster out of Huck, thereby missing the pan. The straps won't hurt the paint, although I might pad them. And, I have a load balancer like the one below that will let me tilt the tranny to line up with the engine.

Plus, I don't have to use the tranny jack as I can lay the tranny in from the top with the shop crane. So if I can place the engine and prop the rear of it up with a jack stand or floor jack (remember, the truck will be down at almost ground level) then I can add the torque converter afterwards. The TQ is HEAVY on an E4OD, and especially so since I went with one that is extra stout. And then add the transmission.