Dad's Truck Build

[grumpin]

Houston - We have a problem. The cab hits the transfer case.

In the pic below you can see that it hits at the red oval, and almost does at the orange oval. And this is with the body mounts just snugged down hand-tight.

 

 

 

The problem appears to be due to the extra length of the E4OD, which puts the transfer case back behind the bump-up in the floor that was apparently put there to clear the driveline.

Options that I've thought of are:

 

1. Smaller Transfer Case: This is the BW1356, so perhaps it is bigger than the original NP208 or the later BW1345? I have the 208 in the attic and the 1345 on Big Blue, so tomorrow I'll be measuring to see if there are any differences.

 

Shorter Tranny Mount: Perhaps I could use a shorter mount between the tranny and the crossmember?

 

Modify The Floor: I don't like this idea, but perhaps the floor can be raised further back. For instance, cut the floor and graft in part of another floor that moves the raised spot rearward.

 

Shims: As a last resort perhaps shims could be used under everything to get maybe 1/4" of clearance. But, they would have to be under everything as the cab's creases line up with those of the bed pretty well right now, so the bed, cab, and the front of the fenders would have to be raised.

But, what ideas do you have? Which of my ideas are good and which are bad.

I would try for options 1 and 2. Hopefully a transfer case that would give you the clearance.Can you lower the cross member?

[Gary Lewis]

I would try for options 1 and 2. Hopefully a transfer case that would give you the clearance.

Can you lower the cross member?

Yeah, options #1 and 2 are the best.

But lowering the crossmember would be similar to #2. However, it wouldn't be all that easy since the left side sits on the lower lip of the frame. So it would have to go under the frame, which means the weight is supported by the bolt instead of the whole end of the crossmember. And then you'd have to put spacers/washers between the gusset and the crossmember. Plus, I'd have to re-drill the holes on the passenger's side.

Also, if the 208 or 1345 is smaller then I may raise the cab again to pull the 1356. And I could temporarily install the 208 and lower the cab to find out if it fits for sure.

[Ford F834]

Yeah, options #1 and 2 are the best.

But lowering the crossmember would be similar to #2. However, it wouldn't be all that easy since the left side sits on the lower lip of the frame. So it would have to go under the frame, which means the weight is supported by the bolt instead of the whole end of the crossmember. And then you'd have to put spacers/washers between the gusset and the crossmember. Plus, I'd have to re-drill the holes on the passenger's side.

Also, if the 208 or 1345 is smaller then I may raise the cab again to pull the 1356. And I could temporarily install the 208 and lower the cab to find out if it fits for sure.

Bummer!

It looks like it’s hitting the square tab on top of the case, and the large bolt boss is almost hitting. The BW1435 does not have the square tab, and the bolt bosses look a little bit less pronounced, so there is a sporting chance at least. The NP 208 is a smaller transfer case, but mounting circle does not look any smaller, and it has tall bosses also. The Ford version has a vent hose in that area. It probably wouldn’t matter but you might need a 90* hose fitting to keep it from pinching. I think any case you put there is going to be tight.

BW1356

BW1345

NP208

I kind of like idea #2 just because you might be able to purchase a bit of actual clearance instead of just not hitting. As the cab mounts settle over time the problem may come back if it just barely clears. It would be nice to see a good inch if possible.

The shim idea is basically a tiny body lift. I think I would favor this over modifying the cab floor, but it wouldn’t be my first choice. This in conjunction with a different transfer case might get you “there” if the transmission mount cannot be lowered at all. Another point is that tab on the 1356... does it do anything? Or can it be trimmed off. There is s similar tab on the ZF5 that needs removed when installing a Banks Sidewinder on the IDI. It’s something to consider along with the other two transfer cases.

Last thought, you said the C channel height of the F150 was the same under the cab right? Just double checking that this dimension is the same as Huck’s and that a smaller “C” isn’t lifting the back end higher than it should be.

[Steve83]

The cab hits the transfer case.

...

The problem appears to be due to the extra length of the E4OD, which puts the transfer case back behind the bump-up in the floor that was apparently put there to clear the driveline.

Yep. That's one of the reasons Ford changed the floorpan in '89.

...I'll be measuring to see if there are any differences.

I doubt they'll be significant, if even large enough to measure by hand.

Perhaps I could use a shorter mount between the tranny and the crossmember?

There's only 1 other factory mount system that I know of (the type on my Bronco), but I don't think it's significantly shorter:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/72205/thumbnail/shafts-skid.jpg

https://supermotors.net/getfile/72206/thumbnail/tcase.jpg

Modify The Floor

That's probably my least-favorite, for MANY reasons. This being near the top:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/470220/thumbnail/tsb900612floorreinf2.jpg

Shims

A body lift is what I did on Frank's '75 Bronco, and it worked well. To test it, I just used scraps of 2x4. But eventually, they were replaced by actual plastic body lift pucks (cut down to minimize the lift). If your lift height does NOT approach the diameter of the body mounts, it will probably be cheap, easy, & safe.

As the cab mounts settle over time the problem may come back...

That's one more reason I prefer polyurethane mounts - they don't settle or allow as much movement as rubber. My t-case is VERY close (due to clocking), but it has never hit because the body & trans mounts are poly.

https://supermotors.net/getfile/936969/thumbnail/tclodd.jpg

The engine mounts will be, soon...

... the C channel height of the F150 was the same under the cab right?

Yes, for all '80-96/7 FS Ford trucks.

[Gary Lewis]

The cab hits the transfer case.

...

The problem appears to be due to the extra length of the E4OD, which puts the transfer case back behind the bump-up in the floor that was apparently put there to clear the driveline.

Yep. That's one of the reasons Ford changed the floorpan in '89.

...I'll be measuring to see if there are any differences.

I doubt they'll be significant, if even large enough to measure by hand.

Perhaps I could use a shorter mount between the tranny and the crossmember?

There's only 1 other factory mount system that I know of (the type on my Bronco), but I don't think it's significantly shorter:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/72205/thumbnail/shafts-skid.jpg

https://supermotors.net/getfile/72206/thumbnail/tcase.jpg

Modify The Floor

That's probably my least-favorite, for MANY reasons. This being near the top:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/470220/thumbnail/tsb900612floorreinf2.jpg

Shims

A body lift is what I did on Frank's '75 Bronco, and it worked well. To test it, I just used scraps of 2x4. But eventually, they were replaced by actual plastic body lift pucks (cut down to minimize the lift). If your lift height does NOT approach the diameter of the body mounts, it will probably be cheap, easy, & safe.

As the cab mounts settle over time the problem may come back...

That's one more reason I prefer polyurethane mounts - they don't settle or allow as much movement as rubber. My t-case is VERY close (due to clocking), but it has never hit because the body & trans mounts are poly.

https://supermotors.net/getfile/936969/thumbnail/tclodd.jpg

The engine mounts will be, soon...

... the C channel height of the F150 was the same under the cab right?

Yes, for all '80-96/7 FS Ford trucks.

Guys - Thanks for the responses, suggestions, pictures, etc. Apparently this is a bit disconcerting to me as I had to take a Tagamet before drinking coffee this morning.

As I think about how to check things out it appears to me that the cab has to come off. It only takes removing the four bottom mounts and placing the carpeted 2x4's to make that happen, so I think I will. Then if I want to raise the back of the tranny to explore a shorter mount I can, where as now it would lift the cab. And, that will facilitate measuring - if not installing the 208 to find out for sure.

And here are some responses to your suggestions/questions:

• Transfer Case: With the cab up I'm going to see if there is an easy, slam dunk way to measure the t-cases. If not I think I'll pull the 1356 and install the 208, and drop the cab back. Or, maybe measure the height of the 1356 off the floor and do the same with the 208. But, I'm not yet sure how to measure the in-place 1345 on Big Blue. We shall see.

• Tranny Mounts: The other day I pulled out all the different tranny crossmembers I have and compared them. Turns out they all put the tranny at essentially the same height. In fact, several of them use the same mount. So changing the crossmember isn't going to help. But, if there was a way to create a shorter mount then that might work.

• Modify The Floor: That's my least-favorite approach, especially now that I've read through that TSB.

  (Hadn't see it before, so thanks Steve.) So let's scratch that one.

• Body Lift: That's becoming my #2 option. However, since the cab isn't fully "down" I'm not quite sure how much lift I'd need. Perhaps I should use Steve's shim approach just to find out if the t-case swap doesn't pan out.

And, by the way, all of the body mounts are poly, so I don't think there will be any settling, and probably very little "give" as the bolts are tightened down.

[Gary Lewis]

Guys - Thanks for the responses, suggestions, pictures, etc. Apparently this is a bit disconcerting to me as I had to take a Tagamet before drinking coffee this morning.

As I think about how to check things out it appears to me that the cab has to come off. It only takes removing the four bottom mounts and placing the carpeted 2x4's to make that happen, so I think I will. Then if I want to raise the back of the tranny to explore a shorter mount I can, where as now it would lift the cab. And, that will facilitate measuring - if not installing the 208 to find out for sure.

And here are some responses to your suggestions/questions:

• Transfer Case: With the cab up I'm going to see if there is an easy, slam dunk way to measure the t-cases. If not I think I'll pull the 1356 and install the 208, and drop the cab back. Or, maybe measure the height of the 1356 off the floor and do the same with the 208. But, I'm not yet sure how to measure the in-place 1345 on Big Blue. We shall see.

• Tranny Mounts: The other day I pulled out all the different tranny crossmembers I have and compared them. Turns out they all put the tranny at essentially the same height. In fact, several of them use the same mount. So changing the crossmember isn't going to help. But, if there was a way to create a shorter mount then that might work.

• Modify The Floor: That's my least-favorite approach, especially now that I've read through that TSB.

  (Hadn't see it before, so thanks Steve.) So let's scratch that one.

• Body Lift: That's becoming my #2 option. However, since the cab isn't fully "down" I'm not quite sure how much lift I'd need. Perhaps I should use Steve's shim approach just to find out if the t-case swap doesn't pan out.

And, by the way, all of the body mounts are poly, so I don't think there will be any settling, and probably very little "give" as the bolts are tightened down.

Mid-day report:

I marked the bottom of the cab with a white pencil where the 1356 hits, and then figured out where that is inside - right at the back edge of the bump-up.

And here's a shot of the worst offender - a tab that could be cut off. But it would still leave the bolt bosses touching some, so something else is needed.

Then I lifted the cab, took pics of the protrusions on the t-case, and then pulled it and installed the 207. Dropped (read SLOWLY LOWERED) the cab, and the 208 hits about as badly. The issue is that the 208 has a bump in the casting dead center, and the cab has a bump down in the floor dead center.

Then I slid under Big Blue and looked the 1345 over. There's a REMOTE chance that it'll work. The bumps in the casting are splayed much like the 1356's, which keeps them away from the center bump down in the floor. So I'm considering pulling the 1345 out of Big Blue to see.

But, if I could drop the tranny a bit on the mount, which is close to 20" in front of the bumps on the t-cases, then we might get there.

Also, I called and talked to John, my paint/body man. He doesn't like the idea of cutting a section of the floor out of another cab and welding it into Dad's floor to move the bump-up back 2". Nor do I. But, it could be done.

And, while a body lift would work, he reminded me that then there are problems getting the bumpers to fit correctly.

More later.........

[1986F150Six]

Mid-day report:

I marked the bottom of the cab with a white pencil where the 1356 hits, and then figured out where that is inside - right at the back edge of the bump-up.

And here's a shot of the worst offender - a tab that could be cut off. But it would still leave the bolt bosses touching some, so something else is needed.

Then I lifted the cab, took pics of the protrusions on the t-case, and then pulled it and installed the 207. Dropped (read SLOWLY LOWERED) the cab, and the 208 hits about as badly. The issue is that the 208 has a bump in the casting dead center, and the cab has a bump down in the floor dead center.

Then I slid under Big Blue and looked the 1345 over. There's a REMOTE chance that it'll work. The bumps in the casting are splayed much like the 1356's, which keeps them away from the center bump down in the floor. So I'm considering pulling the 1345 out of Big Blue to see.

But, if I could drop the tranny a bit on the mount, which is close to 20" in front of the bumps on the t-cases, then we might get there.

Also, I called and talked to John, my paint/body man. He doesn't like the idea of cutting a section of the floor out of another cab and welding it into Dad's floor to move the bump-up back 2". Nor do I. But, it could be done.

And, while a body lift would work, he reminded me that then there are problems getting the bumpers to fit correctly.

More later.........

Layers of the onion?

[Gary Lewis]

Layers of the onion?

Maybe so 'cause I'm about to cry.

[Ray Cecil]

Maybe so 'cause I'm about to cry.

I would grind that tab off, snug down the body mounts and see how close it is after that. Put a little dimple in the floor maybe, if you have to.

[Ray Cecil]

I would grind that tab off, snug down the body mounts and see how close it is after that. Put a little dimple in the floor maybe, if you have to.

Gary, I think you might be taking this one a little too far pulling transfer cases out of other trucks. Lower the trans mount just a hair, grind that tab off. If that still ain't enough, dimple the floor. No one will ever see it.