Dad's Truck Build

[85lebaront2]

I do have M-block and a 460 starter. And the 460 one came off Huck with an E4OD. But, is there a 460 auto and a 460 manual starter? I don't see that in the MPC, but maybe I'm missing something?

Do you think the block plate is stiff enough to hold the starter w/o the tranny?

Yes, the automatic and manual 460 starters are different, ask Jim with his issues discussed on FTE. I actually did post the drawings of the nose pieces on there for Matt. They are probably still there under Jim's starter problem, or issues, or woes. I don't remember the exact thread title.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, the automatic and manual 460 starters are different, ask Jim with his issues discussed on FTE. I actually did post the drawings of the nose pieces on there for Matt. They are probably still there under Jim's starter problem, or issues, or woes. I don't remember the exact thread title.

Ray - I can't wait to show it to you.

Bill - I'll go look on FTE for them. You posted them?

All - I got some measuring and CAD work done today, but then the call came to rescue a friend, as explained on WHYDTYTT, and I spent the rest of the day doing that. And now I'm exhausted.

But I can already see that the spacer I used for the ZF5 isn't going to work for the E4OD as it holds the torque converter too far rearward and that causes a bind as well as doesn't all it to mate properly with the flexplate.

So, after Janey's checkup tomorrow I'll get back to measuring and drawing. But I put the E4OD's flexplate back on the 460 on the engine stand, so instead of calculating dimensions I can now directly measure them - on both the 460 as well as the M-block. Like the position of the ring gear with respect to the rear of the block. Like the position of the part of the flexplate where the torque converter mates with respect to the block.

So that will simplify as well as make things more accurate.

[Steve83]

...I can now directly measure them - on both the 460 as well as the M-block. Like the position of the ring gear with respect to the rear of the block. Like the position of the part of the flexplate where the torque converter mates with respect to the block.

I'd think 4 measurements would be enough to get the "working" length of the spacer...

1) bellhousing face (block mounting surface) to TC stud base face (flexplate mounting surface) with the TC pushed all the way back into the trans pump;

2) block face (bellhousing mounting surface) to flexplate's TC hole surface (TC mounting surface); possibly measured using a straightedge spaced the same distance off the block at each end so that it passes across the flexplate;

3) length of the TC stud (tip to base face)

4) thickness of flexplate at TC hole

#1-#2-#3+#4+ 1/16" (or roughly 2 threads on the TC stud)

That should put the tips of the studs just far enough through the flexplate to start the nuts. Then the nuts will pull the TC out of the pump the remaining length of the studs, less the thickness of the flexplate. IME, that's how most Ford TCs fit.

If you want, I can take those 4 measurements from my spare 5.8L & its original E4OD tomorrow. If my math is right, it should come out to ~0 (since that's the thickness of the factory spacer).

[Ford F834]

Ray - I can't wait to show it to you.

Bill - I'll go look on FTE for them. You posted them?

All - I got some measuring and CAD work done today, but then the call came to rescue a friend, as explained on WHYDTYTT, and I spent the rest of the day doing that. And now I'm exhausted.

But I can already see that the spacer I used for the ZF5 isn't going to work for the E4OD as it holds the torque converter too far rearward and that causes a bind as well as doesn't all it to mate properly with the flexplate.

So, after Janey's checkup tomorrow I'll get back to measuring and drawing. But I put the E4OD's flexplate back on the 460 on the engine stand, so instead of calculating dimensions I can now directly measure them - on both the 460 as well as the M-block. Like the position of the ring gear with respect to the rear of the block. Like the position of the part of the flexplate where the torque converter mates with respect to the block.

So that will simplify as well as make things more accurate.

Gary, I almost hate to bother you with this (explaining it to me) but I’m trying to wrap my head around the spacer... in the matrix below, are all dimensions “positive” distance relative to the block/bellhousing mounting plane in the aft direction? When you say front of the flex plate are you referring to the front of the vehicle? Like I said, sorry to bother you with this... just trying to understand...From a logic standpoint, the 460 flexplate is the same for both the C6 and the E4OD... so if that same C6 fit the 400 one would think the E4OD would also fit? 🤷‍♂️

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I almost hate to bother you with this (explaining it to me) but I’m trying to wrap my head around the spacer... in the matrix below, are all dimensions “positive” distance relative to the block/bellhousing mounting plane in the aft direction? When you say front of the flex plate are you referring to the front of the vehicle? Like I said, sorry to bother you with this... just trying to understand...

From a logic standpoint, the 460 flexplate is the same for both the C6 and the E4OD... so if that same C6 fit the 400 one would think the E4OD would also fit? 🤷‍♂️

Guys - I'm back from Janey's checkup and it went well.

And, after trying to catch up on various things I'm now working the measuring/drawing thing, and have these responses:

Steve - Thanks. I think you've answered a question I've been wrestling with, which is how to measure the space between the TC and the flexplate on Dad's truck. There's a bulge on the flexplate just outside where the TC mates, and it makes in next to impossible to measure. But, your idea of measuring the studs is the key - subtract what's poking through from the full stud measurement and you have the space.

Jonathan - You have figured out my thinking. But, I'll have to be better with explanations in future. Better yet, the drawings should make it easier to understand.

[Gary Lewis]

Guys - I'm back from Janey's checkup and it went well.

And, after trying to catch up on various things I'm now working the measuring/drawing thing, and have these responses:

Steve - Thanks. I think you've answered a question I've been wrestling with, which is how to measure the space between the TC and the flexplate on Dad's truck. There's a bulge on the flexplate just outside where the TC mates, and it makes in next to impossible to measure. But, your idea of measuring the studs is the key - subtract what's poking through from the full stud measurement and you have the space.

Jonathan - You have figured out my thinking. But, I'll have to be better with explanations in future. Better yet, the drawings should make it easier to understand.

Well, where do I start? Will this suffice?

No? So, you want a slightly longer explanation? Well, on the left you have a block w/a 460's crank sticking out, the red bit, then a 460's flexplate (orange), and an E4OD's torque converter (green).

On the right you have the same with an M-Block's crank (blue) and flexplate (blue) added. Note that the ring gears and flexplates are in essentially the same exact position, with the M-Block's being .006" forward of the 460's. Big deal.

And, what you can't tell is that the pilot on the torque converter is engaging the M-Block's crank by .332", which is probably adequate. However, the pilot engages the 460's crank .862". (NB: These dimensions are after subtracting .100" for the engine plate's thickness.)

So, if that is the case then why not torque the flexplate down, slide the tranny forward and engage the flexplate, slip the nuts on the studs, torque them down, and then torque the tranny/engine bolts down? Done, and the engine turns over easily by hand.

Here's where I'm stopping for today so I can get cleaned up for church. But tomorrow I'll do the rear mount and crossmember. Then it'll be about time to put the cab back on.

[Ford F834]

Well, where do I start? Will this suffice?

No? So, you want a slightly longer explanation? Well, on the left you have a block w/a 460's crank sticking out, the red bit, then a 460's flexplate (orange), and an E4OD's torque converter (green).

On the right you have the same with an M-Block's crank (blue) and flexplate (blue) added. Note that the ring gears and flexplates are in essentially the same exact position, with the M-Block's being .006" forward of the 460's. Big deal.

And, what you can't tell is that the pilot on the torque converter is engaging the M-Block's crank by .332", which is probably adequate. However, the pilot engages the 460's crank .862". (NB: These dimensions are after subtracting .100" for the engine plate's thickness.)

So, if that is the case then why not torque the flexplate down, slide the tranny forward and engage the flexplate, slip the nuts on the studs, torque them down, and then torque the tranny/engine bolts down? Done, and the engine turns over easily by hand.

Here's where I'm stopping for today so I can get cleaned up for church. But tomorrow I'll do the rear mount and crossmember. Then it'll be about time to put the cab back on.

Fantastic Gary! Wow that looks good bolted together and set into place!

[Gary Lewis]

Fantastic Gary! Wow that looks good bolted together and set into place!

When I get the crossmember in I'll add the transfer case and it'll look like a mile-long drive train.

[Steve83]

...add the transfer case and it'll BE a mile-long drive train.

FIFY!

It appears that there's no chance of the Xmbr meeting the factory frame holes.

[Gary Lewis]

...add the transfer case and it'll BE a mile-long drive train.

FIFY!

It appears that there's no chance of the Xmbr meeting the factory frame holes.

No, not a chance. The crossmember will be ~6" aft of the factory holes. But I'll measure and report on exactly where they are as I do it.