Dad's Truck Build

[Steve83]

Are you saying that I can easily un-bolt the cup yoke from the re-built 1356 and bolt on a slip yoke from Huck's 1356?

"Easy" depends on how the yoke nut was torqued, but that's all there is to it. Try to wet that seal by tilting the t-case before disassembly, and wet it again before reinstalling the yoke you want.

...is the 1356's yoke in a different spot than where a 208's yoke would have been, assuming the same transmission?

Not enough to matter.

...someone makes custom driveshafts for $300. But I can probably get Dad's "new" one cut down for that price.

If you're spending the same money, why end up with fewer driveshafts? Let Tom Woods build a new one to fit.

Or, I can get a t-case rebuilt for that.

I wouldn't spend half that; either for another JY t-case, or the kit to rebuild it. And I wouldn't pay a dime for someone else to do the labor - it's too easy. The t-case isn't 1/2 as complex or delicate as an auto trans.

...drop the truck down on the ground for some measurements.

Yes, and this describes those measurements & calculations:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/816251/thumbnail/drivelineanglesguide.jpg

It also clarifies some common mythconceptions about driveshaft alignment.

[Ford F834]

Steve - The cab is going to be so far up it won't be an issue, so I'm not worried about that aspect of it. (And believe me, I'm very careful around the cab.)

But, your idea of laying the tranny in ahead of the engine has merit. It is one more step, but wouldn't be that much more work. I'll cogitate on that. Thanks.

Jonathan - I hadn't thought about the different snout lengths for the 10.25 vs 9". Yipes! So it isn't likely that I'll find a driveshaft with the right configuration and length to fit. Which means I may have to have a driveshaft made. Perhaps they can cut down the essentially new one I have for Dad's C6/208/9" combo.

Now for the other bits. The rebuilt 1356 was reconfigured to have the right yokes to match Dad's truck, which means the small cup yoke front and rear. The thought was that I could then re-use the original driveshaft.

But the rear driveshaft off Huck uses a a slip yoke, so that's not going to work. Are you saying that I can easily un-bolt the cup yoke from the re-built 1356 and bolt on a slip yoke from Huck's 1356?

As for the front shaft, is the 1356's yoke in a different spot than where a 208's yoke would have been, assuming the same transmission? If so, then Huck's front driveshaft should work, assuming that the u-joints are the right size.

And yes, at one point I was considering installing the rebuilt 1356 in Big Blue when I put the EFI on and the ZF5 in, and then having his 1345 rebuilt to use in Dad's truck. And, as I think about it, that may still be an option. If Huck's rear shaft would, by some miracle, work if the 1345 had a slip yoke, then I could go that way and find the slip yoke.

Bottom Line: I think the decision on what t-case and driveshaft to use needs to wait until I can do some measuring. I remember seeing that someone makes custom driveshafts for $300. But I can probably get Dad's "new" one cut down for that price. Or, I can get a t-case rebuilt for that. So, I need to wait until I get the engine and tranny in, steering in, and drop the truck down on the ground for some measurements.

Thoughts?

Gary, am I understanding right that your rebuild 1356 has has a slip yoke eliminator kit put in, and is now a fixed rear yoke?I did a quick tape measure check on my trucks. From the center of the axle tube to the bottom of the yoke cup is 15” on the sterling and 11” on the Ford 9”... so a 4” difference. If your 1356 is now a fixed yoke, your easiest route is probably to use Dad’s driveshaft and have it shortened to accommodate the E4OD. That is just a cut and weld of the fixed end which should be cheaper than lengthening Huck’s driveshaft to reach the 9” yoke (even if you did re-buy the slip yoke 1356).

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, am I understanding right that your rebuild 1356 has has a slip yoke eliminator kit put in, and is now a fixed rear yoke?

I did a quick tape measure check on my trucks. From the center of the axle tube to the bottom of the yoke cup is 15” on the sterling and 11” on the Ford 9”... so a 4” difference. If your 1356 is now a fixed yoke, your easiest route is probably to use Dad’s driveshaft and have it shortened to accommodate the E4OD. That is just a cut and weld of the fixed end which should be cheaper than lengthening Huck’s driveshaft to reach the 9” yoke (even if you did re-buy the slip yoke 1356).

Steve - I'll reply to your post after while. Right now I'm sitting in the waiting room at the hospital and it has been 2 hours since they took Janey back - on a 1 1/2 hour surgery. My head is splitting and it is hard to concentrate. But, I do see the measuring directions, and those will come in very handy. Thanks.

Jonathan - You are right, the 1356 I had built has a fixed rear yoke, which may be a slip yoke eliminator? I found someone in town with those parts and had the t-case built that way. Is that unusual in a 1356? Is that good or bad?

And, thanks for all the measurements. I think I can get my head around them, and I agree - cutting Dad's new driveshaft down should be easy and cheap. I'll use Steve's measuring directions when I can and figure out how long it needs to be, exactly, and take it in someplace to have it shortened.

Thanks, guys.

[Ford F834]

Steve - I'll reply to your post after while. Right now I'm sitting in the waiting room at the hospital and it has been 2 hours since they took Janey back - on a 1 1/2 hour surgery. My head is splitting and it is hard to concentrate. But, I do see the measuring directions, and those will come in very handy. Thanks.

Jonathan - You are right, the 1356 I had built has a fixed rear yoke, which may be a slip yoke eliminator? I found someone in town with those parts and had the t-case built that way. Is that unusual in a 1356? Is that good or bad?

And, thanks for all the measurements. I think I can get my head around them, and I agree - cutting Dad's new driveshaft down should be easy and cheap. I'll use Steve's measuring directions when I can and figure out how long it needs to be, exactly, and take it in someplace to have it shortened.

Thanks, guys.

Gary, prayers for Janey at this moment. Please let us know when you hear something.

Fixed rear yoke 1356 was evidently standard on the later Broncos, but is also sold as an expensive kit to get rid of it on the pickup versions. It is stronger. I’m guessing it is cheaper or simpler than having it in the driveshaft, but won’t work with the Bronco’s short wheelbase and double cardan. The slip has to be at the axle end. I personally would consider it a “good” thing.

[Gary Lewis]

Are you saying that I can easily un-bolt the cup yoke from the re-built 1356 and bolt on a slip yoke from Huck's 1356?

"Easy" depends on how the yoke nut was torqued, but that's all there is to it. Try to wet that seal by tilting the t-case before disassembly, and wet it again before reinstalling the yoke you want.

...is the 1356's yoke in a different spot than where a 208's yoke would have been, assuming the same transmission?

Not enough to matter.

...someone makes custom driveshafts for $300. But I can probably get Dad's "new" one cut down for that price.

If you're spending the same money, why end up with fewer driveshafts? Let Tom Woods build a new one to fit.

Or, I can get a t-case rebuilt for that.

I wouldn't spend half that; either for another JY t-case, or the kit to rebuild it. And I wouldn't pay a dime for someone else to do the labor - it's too easy. The t-case isn't 1/2 as complex or delicate as an auto trans.

...drop the truck down on the ground for some measurements.

Yes, and this describes those measurements & calculations:https://supermotors.net/getfile/816251/thumbnail/drivelineanglesguide.jpgIt also clarifies some common mythconceptions about driveshaft alignment.

Ok folks, I talked to the doctor and the surgery was a success. Janey and I are home, she's had lunch, we've had a nap, and I've had another cup of coffee. So things are starting to be less confusing.

Steve - Good to know I can put the slip yoke on the t-case, but given what Jonathan found I don't think that will be necessary as I should be able to have the new rear driveshaft shortened by roughly 2".

As for the question of the front yoke's position, that was a poorly thought out question. Huck had a D44/E4OD/1345 combo. Dad's truck will have a D44/E4OD/1356 combo. So if F150's and F250's have the front axle in the same place, then Huck's front driveshaft should be perfect. But I'll spend some time perusing the new Driveshaft page to see if I can figure out the answer to that question. Unless y'all know.

But, the mythology info doesn't really answer my questions. First, I doubt that I'll have angle problems by shortening a long-bed's driveshaft ~2", although I will check the angles. Instead, what I need to know is how to measure for a driveshaft. And, I think it is:

1. Set the truck on the ground with a reasonable load on the suspension so the rear springs position correctly. But, Dad's truck won't have a spare, gas tank, rear bumper, etc. So, how much blast media do I need to load in the bed?
2. Measure from the center of the front u-joint to the center of the rear u-joint. (Or measure from cup to cup and subract 1 cap's width.)
3. Subtract 1/2 the spline length to put the spline engagement right in the middle. But, is that correct?

Perhaps on #3 I need to measure Dad's driveshaft and then see what the Driveshaft page says it should be. And, I could do the same on Big Blue. That would tell me where they position the splines for measurement. Right?

[Ford F834]

Ok folks, I talked to the doctor and the surgery was a success. Janey and I are home, she's had lunch, we've had a nap, and I've had another cup of coffee. So things are starting to be less confusing.

Steve - Good to know I can put the slip yoke on the t-case, but given what Jonathan found I don't think that will be necessary as I should be able to have the new rear driveshaft shortened by roughly 2".

As for the question of the front yoke's position, that was a poorly thought out question. Huck had a D44/E4OD/1345 combo. Dad's truck will have a D44/E4OD/1356 combo. So if F150's and F250's have the front axle in the same place, then Huck's front driveshaft should be perfect. But I'll spend some time perusing the new Driveshaft page to see if I can figure out the answer to that question. Unless y'all know.

But, the mythology info doesn't really answer my questions. First, I doubt that I'll have angle problems by shortening a long-bed's driveshaft ~2", although I will check the angles. Instead, what I need to know is how to measure for a driveshaft. And, I think it is:

1. Set the truck on the ground with a reasonable load on the suspension so the rear springs position correctly. But, Dad's truck won't have a spare, gas tank, rear bumper, etc. So, how much blast media do I need to load in the bed?
2. Measure from the center of the front u-joint to the center of the rear u-joint. (Or measure from cup to cup and subract 1 cap's width.)
3. Subtract 1/2 the spline length to put the spline engagement right in the middle. But, is that correct?

Perhaps on #3 I need to measure Dad's driveshaft and then see what the Driveshaft page says it should be. And, I could do the same on Big Blue. That would tell me where they position the splines for measurement. Right?

Gary, I am relieved to hear that the surgery went well, and I hope Janey has a swift recovery. From what I have experienced with the front axles, Huck’s front shaft should be exactly right. My front shaft was bad (from the F150 donor) and my replacement came from a leaf spring F250 and was identical. Of course both were D44’s if I remember right. Huck wasn’t a D50 was it? That might be the only reason if the snout length was different... I thought I remembered measuring and even the D50 trucks were the same but it’s been a while.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, I am relieved to hear that the surgery went well, and I hope Janey has a swift recovery.

From what I have experienced with the front axles, Huck’s front shaft should be exactly right. My front shaft was bad (from the F150 donor) and my replacement came from a leaf spring F250 and was identical. Of course both were D44’s if I remember right. Huck wasn’t a D50 was it? That might be the only reason if the snout length was different... I thought I remembered measuring and even the D50 trucks were the same but it’s been a while.

Thanks, Jonathan. I was SO relieved when the doctor finally came to tell me how the surgery had gone. It was supposed to be 1 1/2 hours and it was 2 3/4 hours.

Anyway, she's home and doing fairly well.

As for the front driveshaft, Huck had a D44 so the shaft should be perfect for Dad's truck.

[Nothing Special]

.... I remember seeing that someone makes custom driveshafts for $300. But I can probably get Dad's "new" one cut down for that price.... Thoughts?

I've had 2 driveshafts cut down for $250 a few years ago. I think you ought to be able to do a lot better than $300 to cut down one.

 

[Gary Lewis]

.... I remember seeing that someone makes custom driveshafts for $300. But I can probably get Dad's "new" one cut down for that price.... Thoughts?

I've had 2 driveshafts cut down for $250 a few years ago. I think you ought to be able to do a lot better than $300 to cut down one.

I agree. I had one totally rebuilt for that price.

Just perused the Driveshaft page and they don't seem to have used the E4OD in F150 4wd trucks in '89. The F250 4wd's did get them. But I was hoping to compare front driveshaft lengths just to see if they were different. No can do.

But, in '88 they used the same front driveshaft (E8TZ 4A376-B) for many trucks, including all F150's & F250's with a C6, regardless of engine. So, there should be no worries about the front driveshaft.

Given that, I think we are just about "there" with the plan: Use the BW1356 I had built for the truck and get the "new" rear driveshaft cut down about 2".

Thanks, guys! This has really helped.

 

[Ford F834]

I agree. I had one totally rebuilt for that price.

Just perused the Driveshaft page and they don't seem to have used the E4OD in F150 4wd trucks in '89. The F250 4wd's did get them. But I was hoping to compare front driveshaft lengths just to see if they were different. No can do.

But, in '88 they used the same front driveshaft (E8TZ 4A376-B) for many trucks, including all F150's & F250's with a C6, regardless of engine. So, there should be no worries about the front driveshaft.

Given that, I think we are just about "there" with the plan: Use the BW1356 I had built for the truck and get the "new" rear driveshaft cut down about 2".

Thanks, guys! This has really helped.

Maybe hit Trent up for that ‘87 shift linkage... even if you have to stretch the one arm a bit?