scbill Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Bill - Thanks, but you didn't tell them to use a drift to get it out the last little bit when the bearing hits the screwdriver. As for the impact, I'll give that a try. Now, for a few questions for y'all. The factory shop manual (Driveline/Axles and Differentials and tabs Front Axles then Instructions) says "Install a new seal with the seal lip directed away from the spindle." The pic on the left shows the bearing installed and the seal laying out, and then the pic on the right has the seal installed. Is that "away from the spindle"? In other words, is that correct? Next up, u-joints. I installed one of the u-joints and reached for the snap ring, only to find they are the outside style, as shown on the right, below. As you can see below, I installed one of the inside style, shown on the left, just to get it in. But, these u-joints obviously have the grooves for the inside style. What am I missing? Also, how many demerits do I get for not painting nor powder coating the u-joints and caps? This is getting crazy, and to be able to paint them they'd have to be degreased, which is quite a task. But powder coating would be a lot more work. Where do I draw the line? Next, the u-joint for the center joint, as shown below. I think I can do it with a large c-clamp, but is there a better way? Last, I actually did get something done today. The front diff is fully torqued in, including the ID tag. This edge should be facing the lubricant, as for the U-joints hit em with a little brake cleaner and flat or satin black rust-olium....Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford F834 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Ok, here's a pic of one of the lock-outs. I pulled the tape while the powder was still hot, so maybe that explains the tape marks. I'll leave the other one to cool and see what it looks like. So how did the other one turn out? Did the colors separate any cleaner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 Ok, here's a pic of one of the lock-outs. I pulled the tape while the powder was still hot, so maybe that explains the tape marks. I'll leave the other one to cool and see what it looks like. So how did the other one turn out? Did the colors separate any cleaner? Bill - That makes sense, but it seems contrary to what the FSM says. Unless I am reading it incorrectly. So, let me ask - which way do you think it means when it says "Install a new seal with the seal lip directed away from the spindle." What is "away from the spindle"? As for painting the u-joints, I don't know that I want to bother. As Jonathan pointed out, they don't tend to rust. And the synthetic grease I'm using doesn't come off easily. Jonathan - The second one came out about the same. They are acceptable, but to me the problem isn't the parting line but the uneven surface that the tape created on the black. I've not seen that before, so don't really know what happened. Perhaps it was because the black was actually in the oven three times, although the 2nd and 3rd times were at a lower temp and for less time. All - No comments about the snap rings? How 'bout a better way to install that center u-joint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scbill Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Bill - That makes sense, but it seems contrary to what the FSM says. Unless I am reading it incorrectly. So, let me ask - which way do you think it means when it says "Install a new seal with the seal lip directed away from the spindle." What is "away from the spindle"? As for painting the u-joints, I don't know that I want to bother. As Jonathan pointed out, they don't tend to rust. And the synthetic grease I'm using doesn't come off easily. Jonathan - The second one came out about the same. They are acceptable, but to me the problem isn't the parting line but the uneven surface that the tape created on the black. I've not seen that before, so don't really know what happened. Perhaps it was because the black was actually in the oven three times, although the 2nd and 3rd times were at a lower temp and for less time. All - No comments about the snap rings? How 'bout a better way to install that center u-joint? That appears to be the inside of the hub, if so the lip would be pointed to the outside of the vehicle and toward the bearing/lubricant which would be away from the spindle. If the lip is installed toward the inside of the vehicle, the lubricant will sling out of the bearing area...."whew" bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 .... All - No comments about the snap rings? How 'bout a better way to install that center u-joint? Gary, both of the retaining rings you show are "outside types" in that they both go over the outside of the piece with the groove that holds them. (edit to add: ... inside the yoke) The U-joints in the front axle of my '97 F-250 have "inside type" retaining rings that go in grooves inside the yokes (outboard of the bearing caps). The retaining ring on the right in your picture is often called a full circle retaining ring (at least when people are talking about U-joints). It's considered a more secure way to retain them, but the yokes need to be machined to accept them (and they need to be installed differently obviously). Some aftermarket axles will be able to accept them, and some people modify axle to use them. But most people just use the "C" clip like you show on the left. As to a better way to install the center U-joint, you're not going to like what I have to say. When I had to replace the U-joints in my front axle I removed the diff so I could do it on the work bench. So I'd suggest doing that U-joint before you install the diff. Since I'm too late with that suggestion I've heard of people using a balljoint press, but you see what space you have to work with... edit to add: To be complete, with the front diff removed I then also pulled the right inner stub out of it so I was just working with the shafts when removing and installing the U-joint. But that part's trivial, it's getting the diff out that's a job. And here's a picture of one of the U-joints I got out of my F-250 front axle (you can see that it was overdue). I was not able to get a lot of the "inside type" retaining rings out due to rust, so I had to cut the cross and then drive the caps inward. After that I could get the retaining rings loose. And the red "drawing" on the rag to the right of the U-joint shows the shape of an "inside type" retaining ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 .... All - No comments about the snap rings? How 'bout a better way to install that center u-joint? Gary, both of the retaining rings you show are "outside types" in that they both go over the outside of the piece with the groove that holds them. (edit to add: ... inside the yoke) The U-joints in the front axle of my '97 F-250 have "inside type" retaining rings that go in grooves inside the yokes (outboard of the bearing caps). The retaining ring on the right in your picture is often called a full circle retaining ring (at least when people are talking about U-joints). It's considered a more secure way to retain them, but the yokes need to be machined to accept them (and they need to be installed differently obviously). Some aftermarket axles will be able to accept them, and some people modify axle to use them. But most people just use the "C" clip like you show on the left. As to a better way to install the center U-joint, you're not going to like what I have to say. When I had to replace the U-joints in my front axle I removed the diff so I could do it on the work bench. So I'd suggest doing that U-joint before you install the diff. Since I'm too late with that suggestion I've heard of people using a balljoint press, but you see what space you have to work with... edit to add: To be complete, with the front diff removed I then also pulled the right inner stub out of it so I was just working with the shafts when removing and installing the U-joint. But that part's trivial, it's getting the diff out that's a job. And here's a picture of one of the U-joints I got out of my F-250 front axle (you can see that it was overdue). I was not able to get a lot of the "inside type" retaining rings out due to rust, so I had to cut the cross and then drive the caps inward. After that I could get the retaining rings loose. And the red "drawing" on the rag to the right of the U-joint shows the shape of an "inside type" retaining ring. On the seal, I think I understand. As for the retaining rings, my bad on the terminology. Ok, "c-clips" are what this is set up for. I'll have to find some. And, that is one rusty u-joint. YUK! That seems to be reason enough to paint these. Ok, back to the drawing board. And I do NOT like the idea that I'll have to pull that diff to get the u-joints in. I'm going to do my best to get them in with it still in the truck. It was way too much of an ordeal to get it in to even think about doing it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 .... And, that is one rusty u-joint. YUK! That seems to be reason enough to paint these. Ok, back to the drawing board. That U-joint was likely the original, and the truck was 19 year old, with about 190K miles, and about half of that in the rust belt (Indiana before Minnesota, but New Mexico for the first half of its life). So it takes awhile to get that bad, but they will rust! Even the caps on that one were pretty ugly. So I think with the effort you are putting into the rest of the "ugly" parts of the truck that you're going to want to do something with them. (I just slathered the new caps and retaining rings with anti-seize. I'm not so worried about them being pretty,but I don't want to have to cut them out in another 19 years.) And I do NOT like the idea that I'll have to pull that diff to get the u-joints in. I'm going to do my best to get them in with it still in the truck. It was way too much of an ordeal to get it in to even think about doing it again. Yeah, I don't blame you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 .... And, that is one rusty u-joint. YUK! That seems to be reason enough to paint these. Ok, back to the drawing board. That U-joint was likely the original, and the truck was 19 year old, with about 190K miles, and about half of that in the rust belt (Indiana before Minnesota, but New Mexico for the first half of its life). So it takes awhile to get that bad, but they will rust! Even the caps on that one were pretty ugly. So I think with the effort you are putting into the rest of the "ugly" parts of the truck that you're going to want to do something with them. (I just slathered the new caps and retaining rings with anti-seize. I'm not so worried about them being pretty,but I don't want to have to cut them out in another 19 years.) And I do NOT like the idea that I'll have to pull that diff to get the u-joints in. I'm going to do my best to get them in with it still in the truck. It was way too much of an ordeal to get it in to even think about doing it again. Yeah, I don't blame you there. The coffee has run out and it is time to quit procrastinating and get started. But, taking the diff out is the LAST thing I want to do. I had bruises on my thighs for days from sitting that thing in my lap before I could get it hoisted up and into place. If I have to do it again I'll see if I can devise some way to lift it with the tranny jack. So, I'll update y'all after a bit on the efforts....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 The coffee has run out and it is time to quit procrastinating and get started. But, taking the diff out is the LAST thing I want to do. I had bruises on my thighs for days from sitting that thing in my lap before I could get it hoisted up and into place. If I have to do it again I'll see if I can devise some way to lift it with the tranny jack. So, I'll update y'all after a bit on the efforts....... I don't think it's possible to install the middle U-joint when the stub shaft is in the diff & between the axle beams. And I wouldn't try. The E-ring can be removed through the fill hole using long picks. Then the R-side stub shaft can come out like the L. If you build a snap ring to go on the R inner stub so it just pops into & out of the diff (like a common CV axle), it can be installed/removed much more easily than fighting that E-ring from now on. https://supermotors.net/getfile/764876/thumbnail/17ering.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/766014/thumbnail/22snapring.jpg If the front diff has to come out again...Then you can drop the L axle beam assembly, and lift the truck away. Then it's really easy to pop the diff off, re-seal & re-install it on the beam. But if you're only installing a U-joint in the R assembly, the diff doesn't need to come down just for that. However... This is another good mod if it does come down: https://supermotors.net/getfile/766016/thumbnail/24beamhole.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/766018/thumbnail/26tap.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/766020/thumbnail/27plug.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/766092/thumbnail/30drain.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Special Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I don't think it's possible to install the middle U-joint when the stub shaft is in the diff & between the axle beams. And I wouldn't try. The E-ring can be removed through the fill hole using long picks. Then the R-side stub shaft can come out like the L. If you build a snap ring to go on the R inner stub so it just pops into & out of the diff (like a common CV axle), it can be installed/removed much more easily than fighting that E-ring from now on. https://supermotors.net/getfile/764876/thumbnail/17ering.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/766014/thumbnail/22snapring.jpg If the front diff has to come out again...Then you can drop the L axle beam assembly, and lift the truck away. Then it's really easy to pop the diff off, re-seal & re-install it on the beam. But if you're only installing a U-joint in the R assembly, the diff doesn't need to come down just for that. However... This is another good mod if it does come down: https://supermotors.net/getfile/766016/thumbnail/24beamhole.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/766018/thumbnail/26tap.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/766020/thumbnail/27plug.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/766092/thumbnail/30drain.jpg Another option, either if you have the diff out or if you are able to remove the ring through the fill hole (but you probably can't get it all the way out through the fill hole...) is to leave the retaining ring out when you reassemble it. Then you can slide the shaft in and out freely without fighting with the ring or the case. If you do that you need to come up with another way to keep the shaft from sliding out. When I put a LockRight in the front diff of my '95 F-150 I wasn't able to reinstall that retaining ring. So LockRight tells you to put a spring in the slip joint. That pushes the outer part of the axle out against the spindle and pushes the inner part in so it doesn't slide out. I can't say how well that holds up because I only had the LockRight in for 1 year. But that's the method they suggest, so apparently they think it's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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