Fuel Injection upgrade

[Rusty_S85]

Yippee! Glad you got the pin out.

Yep, Im glad I dont have to find another cam cause this cam I think is going to be great for my flareside truck.

Now I just have to catch the engine builder when I go back to work before he goes home at the end of the day today cause I need to pick his brain on a few things.

Need to ask him if there is a tool for installing the oil filter adapter piece into the block. The one I have being delivered today is the NOS one for our trucks and not the revised one with the allen/torx in the mouth for tightening. This one is also not like the one from the early 70s that had the hex head at the base. This is all round with no way to grab it without grabbing the oil filter threads end. Im thinking if there is no special tool for it I might just look up the FL1A thread specs and buy two nuts in that size and back them up to one another so I can tighten it up.

I also need to ask him about the cam bearings, part of me is worried that I scuffed the forward most cam bearing. My brain says it should be fine as there is no gouge or scratch or groove just a discoloration. Can slide finger and fingernail over them and you dont feel anything its all smooth. But my gut says I need to ask just to make sure.

I also need to ask him about the cam pin cause I may be pulling the cam out again and bringing it to him and having him install the pin if the NOS pins coming in between Thursday and Monday are still oversized for the hole in the cam.

I probably will have a few more questions later on for him but for now that is all I need to get moving along on my build.

I need to try and locate my harborfreight digital caliper so I can measure my piston to deck clearance cause I suspect its a lot closer than 0.010" I think its going to be around 0.005" or so cause the piston is almost flush with the deck.

I also got a little refund on the cam pins as I bought a pack of 10 from ebay but he only had 7 so he credited me the difference. I dont even need seven but hey if I have to use one of these and cut it down to size I will gladly do it if it fits right. I also should be getting my block dowels for the transmission today or tomorrow if the tracking is right.

[Rusty_S85]

Yep, Im glad I dont have to find another cam cause this cam I think is going to be great for my flareside truck.

Now I just have to catch the engine builder when I go back to work before he goes home at the end of the day today cause I need to pick his brain on a few things.

Need to ask him if there is a tool for installing the oil filter adapter piece into the block. The one I have being delivered today is the NOS one for our trucks and not the revised one with the allen/torx in the mouth for tightening. This one is also not like the one from the early 70s that had the hex head at the base. This is all round with no way to grab it without grabbing the oil filter threads end. Im thinking if there is no special tool for it I might just look up the FL1A thread specs and buy two nuts in that size and back them up to one another so I can tighten it up.

I also need to ask him about the cam bearings, part of me is worried that I scuffed the forward most cam bearing. My brain says it should be fine as there is no gouge or scratch or groove just a discoloration. Can slide finger and fingernail over them and you dont feel anything its all smooth. But my gut says I need to ask just to make sure.

I also need to ask him about the cam pin cause I may be pulling the cam out again and bringing it to him and having him install the pin if the NOS pins coming in between Thursday and Monday are still oversized for the hole in the cam.

I probably will have a few more questions later on for him but for now that is all I need to get moving along on my build.

I need to try and locate my harborfreight digital caliper so I can measure my piston to deck clearance cause I suspect its a lot closer than 0.010" I think its going to be around 0.005" or so cause the piston is almost flush with the deck.

I also got a little refund on the cam pins as I bought a pack of 10 from ebay but he only had 7 so he credited me the difference. I dont even need seven but hey if I have to use one of these and cut it down to size I will gladly do it if it fits right. I also should be getting my block dowels for the transmission today or tomorrow if the tracking is right.

Ok, talked with the engine builder I know today after work. He informed me some of those pins can be tight but they shouldnt be so tight you have to press them in. They should go in fairly easy. So I will have to see what I am looking at when the NOS pins come in. On ebay it looks like they are scheduled to be delivered Thursday.

On the oil filter adapter he said to get an allen wrench/socket that just barely fits in the opening of the fitting and take a hammer and tap it in and use that to install the adapter piece. I need to check the adapter piece tomorrow cause it looks awfully smaller than the opening in the block but maybe that is just me. I did look up the part number in the ford parts and illustration guide which shows it was revised in the early 90s so they should all be the same.

Still trying to locate my digital caliper I know I had it not long ago cause I bought batteries for it and installed a new button battery. If I cant locate it before I go to bed tonight I will just swing my harbor freight and buy another one for $20. These are accurate to 0.001" which is all I need for measuring the dowels the opening in the cam as well as measuring the piston to deck clearance so I can accurately calculate compression ratio.

[Rusty_S85]

Ok, talked with the engine builder I know today after work. He informed me some of those pins can be tight but they shouldnt be so tight you have to press them in. They should go in fairly easy. So I will have to see what I am looking at when the NOS pins come in. On ebay it looks like they are scheduled to be delivered Thursday.

On the oil filter adapter he said to get an allen wrench/socket that just barely fits in the opening of the fitting and take a hammer and tap it in and use that to install the adapter piece. I need to check the adapter piece tomorrow cause it looks awfully smaller than the opening in the block but maybe that is just me. I did look up the part number in the ford parts and illustration guide which shows it was revised in the early 90s so they should all be the same.

Still trying to locate my digital caliper I know I had it not long ago cause I bought batteries for it and installed a new button battery. If I cant locate it before I go to bed tonight I will just swing my harbor freight and buy another one for $20. These are accurate to 0.001" which is all I need for measuring the dowels the opening in the cam as well as measuring the piston to deck clearance so I can accurately calculate compression ratio.

Another week wasted and shot. I got the pins in and measured them the difference between the hole in the cam and the pin is 0.0135" for the Crane supplied pin and 0.005" for the OE ford pin. I took and chucked the OE pin in my drill and used fine grade sand paper to polish and slightly thin the pin out to fit more with a gentle push than a hammer but that was of no use. I thought I had it so proceeded to tap the pin in and it got to the same point and seized up again. I didnt use a metal hammer this time I stopped and pulled the cam out and bagged it to take it to the engine builder I know and will let him install it the rest of the way. Im not fighting this anymore.

In the process of pulling the cam I decided to try out my new cam installation/removal tool and tried my 3/8" cam bolt only to find out the cam is not 3/8" but is the larger 7/16" bolt and I cant find a single listing from ARP`s website under small block ford 302 so I will have to email them to see if they know what I need cause I wont be installing a hardware store grade bolt for something as critical as this.

I did get my oil filter adapter installed using vise grips at the smooth shoulder since I didnt have an allen key large enough to tap into the fitting.

I tried using my crowsfoot 3/8" on an extension to torque the 3/8" bolt for my oil pump to 45 ft lbs and couldnt do it, the crowsfoot started to expand and would have rounded the bolt off. So I guess I will have to let it ride and hope the wrench I used got close to 45 ft lbs.

So as of now I made almost no progress due to lack of information from Crane on how to install these pins as well as lack of information on Crane about the bolt size. I dont know why they would make a 5.0L camshaft and then not use the OE 3/8" bolt.

[Gary Lewis]

Another week wasted and shot. I got the pins in and measured them the difference between the hole in the cam and the pin is 0.0135" for the Crane supplied pin and 0.005" for the OE ford pin. I took and chucked the OE pin in my drill and used fine grade sand paper to polish and slightly thin the pin out to fit more with a gentle push than a hammer but that was of no use. I thought I had it so proceeded to tap the pin in and it got to the same point and seized up again. I didnt use a metal hammer this time I stopped and pulled the cam out and bagged it to take it to the engine builder I know and will let him install it the rest of the way. Im not fighting this anymore.

In the process of pulling the cam I decided to try out my new cam installation/removal tool and tried my 3/8" cam bolt only to find out the cam is not 3/8" but is the larger 7/16" bolt and I cant find a single listing from ARP`s website under small block ford 302 so I will have to email them to see if they know what I need cause I wont be installing a hardware store grade bolt for something as critical as this.

I did get my oil filter adapter installed using vise grips at the smooth shoulder since I didnt have an allen key large enough to tap into the fitting.

I tried using my crowsfoot 3/8" on an extension to torque the 3/8" bolt for my oil pump to 45 ft lbs and couldnt do it, the crowsfoot started to expand and would have rounded the bolt off. So I guess I will have to let it ride and hope the wrench I used got close to 45 ft lbs.

So as of now I made almost no progress due to lack of information from Crane on how to install these pins as well as lack of information on Crane about the bolt size. I dont know why they would make a 5.0L camshaft and then not use the OE 3/8" bolt.

Sorry for your problems. That's a bummer! Hopefully your engine builder can fix it.

[Rusty_S85]

Sorry for your problems. That's a bummer! Hopefully your engine builder can fix it.

Im sure he can. I think he will probably put it in his press and seat it that way. But I am taking a spare OE Ford pin just incase of this pin does something weird.

As far as the bolt goes, I had to buy a 5 pack of generic bolts and I bought a single ARP special purpose washer in almost the same dimensions as the washer that came with the ARP cam bolt I got.

Bolt set I got was ARPs 753-1500 with a 1.500" under head length (3/8" cambolt is 1.49"). I also opted for the hex head as I prefer 6 point as I can use 6 point or 12 point sockets where as with 12 point bolts you have to have a 12 point socket.

The washer I got was ARPs 200-8708 which is a 7/16" ID x 0.995" OD x 0.120" thickness. The supplied washer with the 3/8" bolt is 1.20" OD x 0.120" thickness. Since I will be retaining the two piece fuel pump eccentric which I will have to drill the hole from 3/8" to 7/16" to fit the larger bolt, the smaller OD washer should be fine as the inner piece of the fuel pump eccentric will still be acting as a washer in of itself spreading the load out more.

Only thing I am wary of is ARP recommends 7/16" bolts be torqued to 70 ft-lbs. not sure how I feel about the cam bolt being torqued to 70 ft-lbs but it seems others have done it with no issues so surely the threads in my steel cam should be strong enough to handle it.

If I can get the engine builder I know to seat the pin in fully for me I think I will put the cam back in tonight and do some work on the engine. I been avoiding working on it after work cause I am usually tired but Ive had the engine 3 weeks this up coming Wed and all I really have to show for assembly is the oil pump, oil pump pickup, and the oil filter adapter.

I need to get some work done on it and now that I placed my order from summit which should be here some time this week I can hop back onto my word pad document and calculate compression and quench cause I am looking at 0.003" to 0.005" deck clearance right now (I measured clearance at top of piston and at bottom of piston and then found the difference between the two since all pistons will rock some). I can use this time to see if I want to stick with the AFR recommended headgaskets for my heads or if I want to go with a thinner one. Ones I got are 0.041" compressed thickness and with 0.005" that will put me at 0.046" quench which is at the border line. Ideal I think I read was 0.025" but long as its under 0.050" I am fine as quench doesnt exist above 0.050"

[Rusty_S85]

Sorry for your problems. That's a bummer! Hopefully your engine builder can fix it.

Im sure he can. I think he will probably put it in his press and seat it that way. But I am taking a spare OE Ford pin just incase of this pin does something weird.

As far as the bolt goes, I had to buy a 5 pack of generic bolts and I bought a single ARP special purpose washer in almost the same dimensions as the washer that came with the ARP cam bolt I got.

Bolt set I got was ARPs 753-1500 with a 1.500" under head length (3/8" cambolt is 1.49"). I also opted for the hex head as I prefer 6 point as I can use 6 point or 12 point sockets where as with 12 point bolts you have to have a 12 point socket.

The washer I got was ARPs 200-8708 which is a 7/16" ID x 0.995" OD x 0.120" thickness. The supplied washer with the 3/8" bolt is 1.20" OD x 0.120" thickness. Since I will be retaining the two piece fuel pump eccentric which I will have to drill the hole from 3/8" to 7/16" to fit the larger bolt, the smaller OD washer should be fine as the inner piece of the fuel pump eccentric will still be acting as a washer in of itself spreading the load out more.

Only thing I am wary of is ARP recommends 7/16" bolts be torqued to 70 ft-lbs. not sure how I feel about the cam bolt being torqued to 70 ft-lbs but it seems others have done it with no issues so surely the threads in my steel cam should be strong enough to handle it.

If I can get the engine builder I know to seat the pin in fully for me I think I will put the cam back in tonight and do some work on the engine. I been avoiding working on it after work cause I am usually tired but Ive had the engine 3 weeks this up coming Wed and all I really have to show for assembly is the oil pump, oil pump pickup, and the oil filter adapter.

I need to get some work done on it and now that I placed my order from summit which should be here some time this week I can hop back onto my word pad document and calculate compression and quench cause I am looking at 0.003" to 0.005" deck clearance right now (I measured clearance at top of piston and at bottom of piston and then found the difference between the two since all pistons will rock some). I can use this time to see if I want to stick with the AFR recommended headgaskets for my heads or if I want to go with a thinner one. Ones I got are 0.041" compressed thickness and with 0.005" that will put me at 0.046" quench which is at the border line. Ideal I think I read was 0.025" but long as its under 0.050" I am fine as quench doesnt exist above 0.050"

Engine builder I know was able to get the pin installed a bit further than I did.

He also strongly recommended I take a cut off wheel on my airgrinder and cut a small piece off the pin to clear the two piece fuel pump eccentric tang. I am in agreeance with him that the pin is in far enough to not come out especially with the two piece fuel pump eccentric holding the pin captured.

He also strongly recommended against torquing the 7/16-20 fine thread ARP bolt I got for my cam bolt to 70ft lbs. He said torque it to 45-50 ft-lbs and see how it feel and only go up in 5 ft-lb increments long as the threads dont feel like they are trying to pull out of the cam. I think I will forego the arp bolt lube on the threads just apply it to the hex head between the washer and the head of the bolt and then apply some red loctite to the threads to lock it in place to prevent it from loosening up by not having it torqued fully to the 70ft lbs recommended by ARP. I really dont want to damage the threads in the cam snout so I will go a little cautious on this.

He also informed me the Comp Magnum #2138 double roller timing set is not a true double roller. He pointed out to me the seam on the pins indicating that they are not true rollers like I thought. Stated true rollers are oversized at 0.250" pins.

So since I am wanting to run a true roller set I am looking at a couple Cloyes true roller timing sets for use with 2 piece fuel pump eccentrics. Cloyes #9-1138 Street True Roller is priced less than the Comp Mangum set at $41.99 (Comps timing set cost me $54.99). This one clearly states it is double row type with over sized 0.250" rollers. The other Cloyes is the #9-3138 Original Race True Roller priced at more than the Comp Magnum set at $106.99. This set clearly sates its a true roller with 0.250" rollers but also states that it is hand-matched to qualify the correct center distance and minimize runout. This is for the standard 4.804" distance center to center for crank and cam.

I am personally leaning towards the #9-3138 as I believe the chain will be a lot snugger fit which will help stabilize the valve train. How ever I really want to place my order now but I do not know if my block will handle the 4.804" standard distance. I would have to install the cam and then measure but not sure how I can get to 0.001" accuracy.

[Gary Lewis]

Engine builder I know was able to get the pin installed a bit further than I did.

He also strongly recommended I take a cut off wheel on my airgrinder and cut a small piece off the pin to clear the two piece fuel pump eccentric tang. I am in agreeance with him that the pin is in far enough to not come out especially with the two piece fuel pump eccentric holding the pin captured.

He also strongly recommended against torquing the 7/16-20 fine thread ARP bolt I got for my cam bolt to 70ft lbs. He said torque it to 45-50 ft-lbs and see how it feel and only go up in 5 ft-lb increments long as the threads dont feel like they are trying to pull out of the cam. I think I will forego the arp bolt lube on the threads just apply it to the hex head between the washer and the head of the bolt and then apply some red loctite to the threads to lock it in place to prevent it from loosening up by not having it torqued fully to the 70ft lbs recommended by ARP. I really dont want to damage the threads in the cam snout so I will go a little cautious on this.

He also informed me the Comp Magnum #2138 double roller timing set is not a true double roller. He pointed out to me the seam on the pins indicating that they are not true rollers like I thought. Stated true rollers are oversized at 0.250" pins.

So since I am wanting to run a true roller set I am looking at a couple Cloyes true roller timing sets for use with 2 piece fuel pump eccentrics. Cloyes #9-1138 Street True Roller is priced less than the Comp Mangum set at $41.99 (Comps timing set cost me $54.99). This one clearly states it is double row type with over sized 0.250" rollers. The other Cloyes is the #9-3138 Original Race True Roller priced at more than the Comp Magnum set at $106.99. This set clearly sates its a true roller with 0.250" rollers but also states that it is hand-matched to qualify the correct center distance and minimize runout. This is for the standard 4.804" distance center to center for crank and cam.

I am personally leaning towards the #9-3138 as I believe the chain will be a lot snugger fit which will help stabilize the valve train. How ever I really want to place my order now but I do not know if my block will handle the 4.804" standard distance. I would have to install the cam and then measure but not sure how I can get to 0.001" accuracy.

I think I like the idea of cutting the pin off since you'll have the eccentric holding it in.

But I don't think I'd use red Loctite on the cam bolt. You aren't going to get that out w/o heating things and you may destroy the cam doing so. I would use blue or, if I'm really wanting to ensure it doesn't move, use the new orange.

On the timing chain, if you've had them align-bore the main bearings the distance from there to the cam might be different than stock. But measuring that accurately wouldn't be easy. You'd have to measure from the crank to the center of the cam and then subtract 1/2 the diameter of the crank. But can you accurately measure to the center of the cam?

[Rusty_S85]

I think I like the idea of cutting the pin off since you'll have the eccentric holding it in.

But I don't think I'd use red Loctite on the cam bolt. You aren't going to get that out w/o heating things and you may destroy the cam doing so. I would use blue or, if I'm really wanting to ensure it doesn't move, use the new orange.

On the timing chain, if you've had them align-bore the main bearings the distance from there to the cam might be different than stock. But measuring that accurately wouldn't be easy. You'd have to measure from the crank to the center of the cam and then subtract 1/2 the diameter of the crank. But can you accurately measure to the center of the cam?

I have blue as well as red thread locker I thought about using blue but then started second guessing if it would be strong enough to hold the bolt from backing out under the conditions the cam is exposed to, for me I would rather be more cautious than not cause Ive been lucky before just tightening the cam bolt on previous engines as tight as I could till the engine started spinning and didnt have any problem. But with how much money I have in this build I dont know if I want to skimp on that detail.

Well part of the rebuild process is having the crank aligned honed which I dont think changed the distance but part of me would still line to double check it considering the price difference in timing sets is $50 for one and $110 for the other. I guess I could just take a chance on it, worse case is if there is a difference the chain would be super loose and I could always send it back saying its not right and get a refund on it.

[Gary Lewis]

I think I like the idea of cutting the pin off since you'll have the eccentric holding it in.

But I don't think I'd use red Loctite on the cam bolt. You aren't going to get that out w/o heating things and you may destroy the cam doing so. I would use blue or, if I'm really wanting to ensure it doesn't move, use the new orange.

On the timing chain, if you've had them align-bore the main bearings the distance from there to the cam might be different than stock. But measuring that accurately wouldn't be easy. You'd have to measure from the crank to the center of the cam and then subtract 1/2 the diameter of the crank. But can you accurately measure to the center of the cam?

I have blue as well as red thread locker I thought about using blue but then started second guessing if it would be strong enough to hold the bolt from backing out under the conditions the cam is exposed to, for me I would rather be more cautious than not cause Ive been lucky before just tightening the cam bolt on previous engines as tight as I could till the engine started spinning and didnt have any problem. But with how much money I have in this build I dont know if I want to skimp on that detail.

Well part of the rebuild process is having the crank aligned honed which I dont think changed the distance but part of me would still line to double check it considering the price difference in timing sets is $50 for one and $110 for the other. I guess I could just take a chance on it, worse case is if there is a difference the chain would be super loose and I could always send it back saying its not right and get a refund on it.

If you haven't you should try the new Permatex® High Strength Removable Threadlocker ORANGE:

Permatex High Strength Removable ORANGE is a hybrid formula that combines the strength of a Permatex Threadlocker RED with the removability of a Permatex Threadlocker BLUE. Permatex Threadlocker ORANGE provides high strength for heavy-duty applications, but unlike Threadlocker RED, it can removed with hand tools and does not require heating to achieve removal. Ideal for high vibration applications such as power sports, heavy equipment, automotive, and industrial applications. With 3X the strength of Threadlocker BLUE, Permatex Threadlocker ORANGE ensures that pieces will not loosen or back out over time.

[Rusty_S85]

If you haven't you should try the new Permatex® High Strength Removable Threadlocker ORANGE:

Permatex High Strength Removable ORANGE is a hybrid formula that combines the strength of a Permatex Threadlocker RED with the removability of a Permatex Threadlocker BLUE. Permatex Threadlocker ORANGE provides high strength for heavy-duty applications, but unlike Threadlocker RED, it can removed with hand tools and does not require heating to achieve removal. Ideal for high vibration applications such as power sports, heavy equipment, automotive, and industrial applications. With 3X the strength of Threadlocker BLUE, Permatex Threadlocker ORANGE ensures that pieces will not loosen or back out over time.

Thanks, I never heard of the Orange till now. Then again I mainly stick to LocTite brand over permatex but they all in the end are the same. I actually placed an order for a small bottle of the orange from amazon should be here thursday. I hope not to be too tired tomorrow after work so I can put my cam back in and throw the new timing set I bought off Amazon that is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. I can at least mock it up and get it ready to degree the cam this weekend. I ended up getting the cheaper $41 Cloyes #9-1138 as I didnt think I needed the hand matched gears for a daily driver truck. Its still a large .250" pin on a true double roller set up so I should still be fine.

I was reading the information on LocTite`s website and it mentions larger threads require higher strength but they mean diameter as under thread size it states Medium 243 Blue is for fasteners up to thread size M18. M18 is pertaining to the diameter of the fastener not the thread pitch. So I might be able to get away with the blue but I figure for $10 I can get a small bottle of the orange and that should be enough for what I am needing it for such as the cam thrust plate and the cam gear .