Fuel Injection upgrade

[Rusty_S85]

The reason Gary and I both run dual O2 sensors, our EFI systems are sequential, meaning the injectors are individually fired in the firing order sequence. If O2 sensor 11 (standardized location designation) detects a lean mixture the EEC can increase the pulse width on that bank (1-4) and for rich decrease it. For a TBI or bank fired system, a single sensor at the confluence of the two banks is adequate. I have my wideband where the stock single sensor for a bank fired system would be.

Ford truck engines were all bank fired prior to 1994, 1994 302s with automatic trans and 1995 300 and 351s are the same. The sequential truck systems are easy to identify, they are all MAF systems. On the 460, only 1996/7 California models were sequential and they are EEC-V rather than EEC-IV systems and have misfire detectors and a pressure feedback EGR system along with a 3rd O2 sensor and a catalyst overheat sensor.

Ah ok, this is a group fire, all four injectors fire at the same time and the same rate. Thats why I dont know if I should install the O2 sensor in the Y portion as the magnaflow Y pipe I want to get has a precat with a O2 sensor bung there, or if I should do it like Holley states and put it with in 10 inches of the point the header pipes merge which would be the O2 port on the passengerside header collector which is about 2 to 3 inches after the pipes merge into the collector.

[Rusty_S85]

Ah ok, this is a group fire, all four injectors fire at the same time and the same rate. Thats why I dont know if I should install the O2 sensor in the Y portion as the magnaflow Y pipe I want to get has a precat with a O2 sensor bung there, or if I should do it like Holley states and put it with in 10 inches of the point the header pipes merge which would be the O2 port on the passengerside header collector which is about 2 to 3 inches after the pipes merge into the collector.

Well I heard something today from another user on the Sniper owners page and I have never heard it before.

He stressed to not use a factory snorkel air cleaner but to run a open element filter as the snorkel filters are like sucking through a straw and that he sees 40 to 60 hp loss on the dyno running a snorkel filter vs a open element filter.

Has anyone here ever heard of such bs like this?

Now this guy has me second guessing my plan to use my OE single snorkel air filter as I dont want to choke this engine down if it really is doing that. I just dont see how it could as I believe this aircleaner was the same aircleaner used from 255 through the 400 I know its a 302/351 aircleaner though.

Also has me rethinking if I should just source a 83-85 dual snorkel mustang aircleaner and then chop up the driverside snorkel to clear my dealer A/C system that is directly in the way.

I just know I dont want an open element filter. I want cold air not sucking hot air from under the hood. That is well known among speed magazines that hot air under the hood produces less power than pulling in cooler dense air from outside the engine bay.

[Gary Lewis]

Well I heard something today from another user on the Sniper owners page and I have never heard it before.

He stressed to not use a factory snorkel air cleaner but to run a open element filter as the snorkel filters are like sucking through a straw and that he sees 40 to 60 hp loss on the dyno running a snorkel filter vs a open element filter.

Has anyone here ever heard of such bs like this?

Now this guy has me second guessing my plan to use my OE single snorkel air filter as I dont want to choke this engine down if it really is doing that. I just dont see how it could as I believe this aircleaner was the same aircleaner used from 255 through the 400 I know its a 302/351 aircleaner though.

Also has me rethinking if I should just source a 83-85 dual snorkel mustang aircleaner and then chop up the driverside snorkel to clear my dealer A/C system that is directly in the way.

I just know I dont want an open element filter. I want cold air not sucking hot air from under the hood. That is well known among speed magazines that hot air under the hood produces less power than pulling in cooler dense air from outside the engine bay.

I don't know what the amount of loss is with snorkels, but there is a loss.

I think a factory air cleaner is needed with a carb, but not as much with EFI. The issue with a carb is that the air/fuel ratio with a carb varies by the temp of the air coming into the carb. So if your AFR is right at 72 degrees then it is wrong everywhere else. But an EFI system measures both the inlet air temp as well as the effective AFR, and adjusts for that, so having a constant inlet air temp is not a requirement for EFI like it is for a carb.

However, there's another issue - the amount of oxygen in each cubic foot of air coming in. That's the limiting factor in how much power you can make since that determines the amount of fuel you can have to get the right AFR. And hot air has far fewer oxygen molecules in it than cold air does.

So for EFI you still want the coldest air you can get, and an open air filter is the absolutely worst thing you can do if you want cold air. Given that, I'd say the best solution is a dual snorkel air cleaner plumbed to the radiator support to get the coldest air you can. Or, a cold air system that is plumbed to a source of cold air.

[Rusty_S85]

I don't know what the amount of loss is with snorkels, but there is a loss.

I think a factory air cleaner is needed with a carb, but not as much with EFI. The issue with a carb is that the air/fuel ratio with a carb varies by the temp of the air coming into the carb. So if your AFR is right at 72 degrees then it is wrong everywhere else. But an EFI system measures both the inlet air temp as well as the effective AFR, and adjusts for that, so having a constant inlet air temp is not a requirement for EFI like it is for a carb.

However, there's another issue - the amount of oxygen in each cubic foot of air coming in. That's the limiting factor in how much power you can make since that determines the amount of fuel you can have to get the right AFR. And hot air has far fewer oxygen molecules in it than cold air does.

So for EFI you still want the coldest air you can get, and an open air filter is the absolutely worst thing you can do if you want cold air. Given that, I'd say the best solution is a dual snorkel air cleaner plumbed to the radiator support to get the coldest air you can. Or, a cold air system that is plumbed to a source of cold air.

Correct, I would still hook up the emission hose to the header tube as I have the stuff to do it. But my main goal is I wanted cold air as that is what you want for making power. I figure there may or may not be some loss but I mean 40 to 60 hp. I mean jesus if my 306 makes 385 hp that means with the OE aircleaner I would only be making 325 - 345hp. Which I guess still exceeds my goal of 300hp and does double the OE 125hp rating of the smog 302. But still I just cant stand the thought of losing 40 to 60 hp on an aircleaner.

I just dont see that happening.

As far as dual snorkel goes, the more I think about it, the more I think I want to do it. My big problem is the driver side snorkel would be right where my AC is at.

This is a older photo but looking at it and photos of the dual snorkel install you worked on. I strongly believe the driverside snorkel will be right at my oil dipstick and A/C hoses and maybe if its angled forward enough the back of my york compressor.

Just trying to think of how I could do it and modify it to work but still retain my A/C system the way it currently is as well as the dipstick.

I did look at the spectre dual snorkel aircleaner they have a 180* opposed dual snorkel but the same guy said he tried the spectre snorkel aircleaner and saw a loss of 15hp compared to not even running an aircleaner.

[Rusty_S85]

Correct, I would still hook up the emission hose to the header tube as I have the stuff to do it. But my main goal is I wanted cold air as that is what you want for making power. I figure there may or may not be some loss but I mean 40 to 60 hp. I mean jesus if my 306 makes 385 hp that means with the OE aircleaner I would only be making 325 - 345hp. Which I guess still exceeds my goal of 300hp and does double the OE 125hp rating of the smog 302. But still I just cant stand the thought of losing 40 to 60 hp on an aircleaner.

I just dont see that happening.

As far as dual snorkel goes, the more I think about it, the more I think I want to do it. My big problem is the driver side snorkel would be right where my AC is at.

This is a older photo but looking at it and photos of the dual snorkel install you worked on. I strongly believe the driverside snorkel will be right at my oil dipstick and A/C hoses and maybe if its angled forward enough the back of my york compressor.

Just trying to think of how I could do it and modify it to work but still retain my A/C system the way it currently is as well as the dipstick.

I did look at the spectre dual snorkel aircleaner they have a 180* opposed dual snorkel but the same guy said he tried the spectre snorkel aircleaner and saw a loss of 15hp compared to not even running an aircleaner.

Reading ive been doing it looks like 351W and 460 equipped trucks had dual snorkel aircleaners but only if they didnt have A/C seems like with A/C you got down graded to the single snorkel aircleaner.

So I went through and found all the 351 aircleaners I could find part number wise but couldnt really find much about them.

From the stock photos of dual snorkel trucks it does appear they were all non A/C trucks. Doesnt help me though cause I dont know exactly how to make a dual snorkel work on my dealer equipped truck. Seems like it will be right where my oil dipstick and A/C hoses run which is a shame.

I did hear back from that same guy on the sniper group he claims he only ever seen a 10 degree difference between ambient and underhood temp while road racing his vehicle hard. Maybe that is, but how does that apply to a bullnose truck especially one being driven in a region where summer can be up to 110 degrees ambient. that means the air would be pushing 120 degrees ambient and then throw in headers which always add heat under the hood I dont know if I would ever want to try and run a open element aircleaner.

Aircleaners I found as potential options are as follows

E1TZ-9600-AH : 351W 81/86 F100/250 HD aircleaner

E1TZ-9600-AJ : 302/351W 81/85 Standard aircleaner

E1TZ-9600-AS : 351W 82/87 Standard aircleaner

E1TZ-9600-G : 351M/400 81/82 HD aircleaner

E1TZ-9600-A : 351M/400 81/82 Standard aircleaner

E2TZ-9600-U : 351 82 HD aircleaner

E4TZ-9600-K : 351 84/87 HD aircleaner

E4TZ-9600-P : 351-4/B 84/87

E5TZ-9600-E : 351-4/B 86/86 O/8500 lbs

E5TZ-9600-H r/b E7TZ-9600-J : 351-4/B 85/86 U/8500 lbs

Hopefully one of those part numbers will come back with a reasonably priced hit for one for sale. Not going to pay $300+ for a 83/85 mustang aircleaner to see what I can do to make work.

 

[85lebaront2]

Reading ive been doing it looks like 351W and 460 equipped trucks had dual snorkel aircleaners but only if they didnt have A/C seems like with A/C you got down graded to the single snorkel aircleaner.

So I went through and found all the 351 aircleaners I could find part number wise but couldnt really find much about them.

From the stock photos of dual snorkel trucks it does appear they were all non A/C trucks. Doesnt help me though cause I dont know exactly how to make a dual snorkel work on my dealer equipped truck. Seems like it will be right where my oil dipstick and A/C hoses run which is a shame.

I did hear back from that same guy on the sniper group he claims he only ever seen a 10 degree difference between ambient and underhood temp while road racing his vehicle hard. Maybe that is, but how does that apply to a bullnose truck especially one being driven in a region where summer can be up to 110 degrees ambient. that means the air would be pushing 120 degrees ambient and then throw in headers which always add heat under the hood I dont know if I would ever want to try and run a open element aircleaner.

Aircleaners I found as potential options are as follows

E1TZ-9600-AH : 351W 81/86 F100/250 HD aircleaner

E1TZ-9600-AJ : 302/351W 81/85 Standard aircleaner

E1TZ-9600-AS : 351W 82/87 Standard aircleaner

E1TZ-9600-G : 351M/400 81/82 HD aircleaner

E1TZ-9600-A : 351M/400 81/82 Standard aircleaner

E2TZ-9600-U : 351 82 HD aircleaner

E4TZ-9600-K : 351 84/87 HD aircleaner

E4TZ-9600-P : 351-4/B 84/87

E5TZ-9600-E : 351-4/B 86/86 O/8500 lbs

E5TZ-9600-H r/b E7TZ-9600-J : 351-4/B 85/86 U/8500 lbs

Hopefully one of those part numbers will come back with a reasonably priced hit for one for sale. Not going to pay $300+ for a 83/85 mustang aircleaner to see what I can do to make work.

The 460s had a single snorkel air cleaner with a vacuum actuated door on the back that was connected directly to manifold vacuum. That way when the manifold vacuum dropped it would open. The snorkel was connected by a short flex hose to an inlet elbow on the right side of the radiator where it, in theory, would get cooler air.

The later EFI trucks have the air filter on the left side inner fender area, behind the coolant and windshield washer reservoir assembly, it is a rectangular filter with a duct running to the side of the radiator and the inlet curved away from the radiator providing cooler air to the system.

I believe Gary Lewis had built one for his 351M/400 project before he and Tim Meyer decided on going EFI with it. He took a snorkel off an old air cleaner and mounted it to clear everything so he had dual snorkels.

Leaving Ford, GM and Chrysler had a number of dual snorkel air cleaners, one Olds 442 had big flex hoses down to two under bumper scoops., Chrysler also had a number that fit on the Holley and AVS size air horns.

[Rusty_S85]

The 460s had a single snorkel air cleaner with a vacuum actuated door on the back that was connected directly to manifold vacuum. That way when the manifold vacuum dropped it would open. The snorkel was connected by a short flex hose to an inlet elbow on the right side of the radiator where it, in theory, would get cooler air.

The later EFI trucks have the air filter on the left side inner fender area, behind the coolant and windshield washer reservoir assembly, it is a rectangular filter with a duct running to the side of the radiator and the inlet curved away from the radiator providing cooler air to the system.

I believe Gary Lewis had built one for his 351M/400 project before he and Tim Meyer decided on going EFI with it. He took a snorkel off an old air cleaner and mounted it to clear everything so he had dual snorkels.

Leaving Ford, GM and Chrysler had a number of dual snorkel air cleaners, one Olds 442 had big flex hoses down to two under bumper scoops., Chrysler also had a number that fit on the Holley and AVS size air horns.

Thats what I was even thinking of doing just grabbing a cheapie single snorkel truck aircleaner and making my own dual snorkel. I just dont want to get one like I have for my 302 cause that aluminum is flimsy and cracked all over so I wouldnt like the idea of doing that.

But my big thing is not so much the hook up for the duct work as I got a duplicate passengerside air duct from another '82 F150 I can cut up and make work. My thing is still the A/C I dont want to force my AC hoses down nor do I want to try and force them up to lay atop the snorkel. It really puts me in a spot where I am unsure. I would basically have to mock everything up on my truck as it is now and take into account the aircleaner might sit a little differently going from a OE 2v carb to the 4150 style 4v throttle body.

I found some GM aircleaners with dual snorkels that are reproductions but the snorkels are too close together.

I also looked at the spectre ones that I can also get they have angled and 180 degree snorkels but the hoses are horrible looking dryer vent hoses.

Plus the kit is $175 and the aircleaner itself without the hoses is $235. For those prices I might be more interested in spending the $200 - $300 on a 84/85 Mustang aircleaner or saving money getting a good single snorkel from a 351w and chopping it up to make a dual snorkel.

[Gary Lewis]

The 460s had a single snorkel air cleaner with a vacuum actuated door on the back that was connected directly to manifold vacuum. That way when the manifold vacuum dropped it would open. The snorkel was connected by a short flex hose to an inlet elbow on the right side of the radiator where it, in theory, would get cooler air.

The later EFI trucks have the air filter on the left side inner fender area, behind the coolant and windshield washer reservoir assembly, it is a rectangular filter with a duct running to the side of the radiator and the inlet curved away from the radiator providing cooler air to the system.

I believe Gary Lewis had built one for his 351M/400 project before he and Tim Meyer decided on going EFI with it. He took a snorkel off an old air cleaner and mounted it to clear everything so he had dual snorkels.

Leaving Ford, GM and Chrysler had a number of dual snorkel air cleaners, one Olds 442 had big flex hoses down to two under bumper scoops., Chrysler also had a number that fit on the Holley and AVS size air horns.

Yes, I built a dual-snorkel air cleaner for Dad's truck, and it is chronicled here on FTE: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1291332-dads-air-cleaner.html.

With the info there you can make one to clear your A/C compressor. You want to start with a 351HO air cleaner as it has a steel base, and then position the to-be hole where the snorkel hits. However, as explained in that thread, there are several snorkels with different droop and exit angles. So you will want to look for the right snorkel.

However, I think that thread also points out that you can drill the spot welds, reposition the bits of the snorkel, and either weld it or braze it back together to get the angle and droop you want.

[Rusty_S85]

Yes, I built a dual-snorkel air cleaner for Dad's truck, and it is chronicled here on FTE: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1291332-dads-air-cleaner.html.

With the info there you can make one to clear your A/C compressor. You want to start with a 351HO air cleaner as it has a steel base, and then position the to-be hole where the snorkel hits. However, as explained in that thread, there are several snorkels with different droop and exit angles. So you will want to look for the right snorkel.

However, I think that thread also points out that you can drill the spot welds, reposition the bits of the snorkel, and either weld it or braze it back together to get the angle and droop you want.

I might end up doing that at least I can customize it and mock it up to fit around my A/C components.

Ill keep an eye out for the 83-85 5.8L HO aircleaner. There is one on ebay now but its $75 for the filter then another $37 for the shipping but the cleaner is quite beat up the lid looks warped its so beat up. Think I will hold off for something a bit nicer.

On a side note are the 5.0L HO aircleaners the same steel base as the 5.8: HO aircleaner?

I have came across a few 5.0L HO ones but not sure if they are the same as the 5.8L

[Rusty_S85]

Yes, I built a dual-snorkel air cleaner for Dad's truck, and it is chronicled here on FTE: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1291332-dads-air-cleaner.html.

With the info there you can make one to clear your A/C compressor. You want to start with a 351HO air cleaner as it has a steel base, and then position the to-be hole where the snorkel hits. However, as explained in that thread, there are several snorkels with different droop and exit angles. So you will want to look for the right snorkel.

However, I think that thread also points out that you can drill the spot welds, reposition the bits of the snorkel, and either weld it or braze it back together to get the angle and droop you want.

Looking at your photos of your build I dont know if I can make it work with the valve covers I have and where the breathers are placed.

This is the photo from your build that has me thinking this right now.

And the valve covers that I have for clearing my Scorpion roller rockers.

And a couple photos with the valve covers installed with pcv and with breather. It appears the snorkel would be sitting right where the breather/pcv would have to go. Would have to rotate the aircleaner some to off set the passenger side snorkel then mount the driver side a bit further back to balance the angle out I think. Or relocate both snorkels.