Ecoboost 101, and Bullnose Swapping

[Ray Cecil]

Okay Gary....im sold on the ecoboost 4 banger. The 2019 mustang ecoboost is a lot of fun. So light and nimble. Ill drive the 6 cylinder eco f150 soon. I figured I would start a thread centered around ecoboost education, and swapping into a bullnose.

Lets start this thread by gathering all the engineering data, and specifications we can.

I'm considering doing a swap in Little Blue 82, and renaming it ECO-Blue 82.

Ive got a lot of stuff on my plate, and doing a swap right now is not likely, but if I can spend some time gathering data and thoughts and opinions, I will be prepared when the timing is right.

What are your first thoughts about an ECO boost swap into a bullnose?

 

[Gary Lewis]

I think an Ecoboost swap into a Bullnose would be stellar. It would RUN.

But be aware that there are at least two 3.5L EB's. My 2015 is the early version and sometime in 2016ish they changed it somewhat. I'm not sure what all the changes were, but the power specs are a bit different.

Also, they changed out the tranny in the same time frame. Mine has the 6-speed, but in 2016 or 17 they started phasing in the 10-speed. Personally, I think the 6-speed is fine, especially for a pickup you'll use. The real advantage of the 10-speed is that it has several overdrive ratios and it can keep the R's low regardless of the situation, which increases MPG.

But I didn't buy Blue for MPG. I spec'd him with the Max Tow package, which gives him 3.55 gears instead of 3.23's. That obviously hurt MPG as I get 18ish where 20 isn't unusual with trucks with the 3.23's. However, the later trucks with the new 3.5L EB and 10-speed get int the low 20's.

As for power, it is AMAZING! As I've said, towing with it is so easy, and I'd rather tow with it than with Big Blue. Perhaps the new engine in BB will make a difference, as will the ZF5 'cause the T-19 had a 3rd-to-4th jump that wasn't fun.

[swampedout]

I think an Ecoboost swap into a Bullnose would be stellar. It would RUN.

But be aware that there are at least two 3.5L EB's. My 2015 is the early version and sometime in 2016ish they changed it somewhat. I'm not sure what all the changes were, but the power specs are a bit different.

Also, they changed out the tranny in the same time frame. Mine has the 6-speed, but in 2016 or 17 they started phasing in the 10-speed. Personally, I think the 6-speed is fine, especially for a pickup you'll use. The real advantage of the 10-speed is that it has several overdrive ratios and it can keep the R's low regardless of the situation, which increases MPG.

But I didn't buy Blue for MPG. I spec'd him with the Max Tow package, which gives him 3.55 gears instead of 3.23's. That obviously hurt MPG as I get 18ish where 20 isn't unusual with trucks with the 3.23's. However, the later trucks with the new 3.5L EB and 10-speed get int the low 20's.

As for power, it is AMAZING! As I've said, towing with it is so easy, and I'd rather tow with it than with Big Blue. Perhaps the new engine in BB will make a difference, as will the ZF5 'cause the T-19 had a 3rd-to-4th jump that wasn't fun.

Do it!!!

How much info abt this swap is there? Has it been done yet?

[Ray Cecil]

Do it!!!

How much info abt this swap is there? Has it been done yet?

I was on copart this morning looking for 4x4 3.5L wrecks.

A quick google search, and one guy mentions it is much easier to do a body swap, because how the computer controls everything.

I found another mention of Ford offering stand alone controllers for swaps, dont know if its true, or what the cost would be.

[Gary Lewis]

I was on copart this morning looking for 4x4 3.5L wrecks.

A quick google search, and one guy mentions it is much easier to do a body swap, because how the computer controls everything.

I found another mention of Ford offering stand alone controllers for swaps, dont know if its true, or what the cost would be.

There's probably a lot of merit to doing the body swap. The computers, probably plural, control everything.

And, be aware that there were two different 4wd systems. My Platinum also has a 4A setting in addition to the 2Hi, 4Hi, and 4Lo. In 4A it is basically AWD but the computer controls how much power is put to which axle. You can drive it on dry pavement according to the manual, but on slippery pavement you can watch a display on the dash of what percentage of the power is being put to which axle, and it is FAST! In the rain you can enter a puddle with 100% to the rear and watch it move to the front and then back to the rear as you pass through the puddle.

[grumpin]

There's probably a lot of merit to doing the body swap. The computers, probably plural, control everything.

And, be aware that there were two different 4wd systems. My Platinum also has a 4A setting in addition to the 2Hi, 4Hi, and 4Lo. In 4A it is basically AWD but the computer controls how much power is put to which axle. You can drive it on dry pavement according to the manual, but on slippery pavement you can watch a display on the dash of what percentage of the power is being put to which axle, and it is FAST! In the rain you can enter a puddle with 100% to the rear and watch it move to the front and then back to the rear as you pass through the puddle.

That was my first thought, so much information going to computer(s). How would you hook all that up.

[Angelo Voltura]

That was my first thought, so much information going to computer(s). How would you hook all that up.

If you're going to do it, go with the 6R80 trans. That 10 speed is garbage! We cannot keep them out of the shop.

By the way, the 3.5 EB trucks are controlled by a whopping 47 different computers/modules. Something to think about. The main one you are going to need are the obvious PCM, but you're going to need the fuel pump driver module, it's fuel system, and a bunch of others. Best thing you can do is buy a complete donor truck. I think you can get away without the BCM, but not 100% sure. Most of these computers are for all the interior electrical so you should be ok.

You will have to figure out a way to use the gas pedal assembly and module for the drive by wire system since there is no throttle cable. This probably won't be too hard, there are a few guys doing LS and Coyote swaps on Facebook right now, I would look around there and see if you can find them to ask them about how to set up that system.

The 4wd system still uses an, although revised, IWE system controlled by vacuum to engage the front end. However depending on the year of the truck this is all module controlled as well.

There is going to be a LOT of fabrication. The motor mounts will be the easy part, but getting the oil pan to clear may prove tough with our crossmembers. The pans are fairly shallow, and depending on the motor you may end up with a plastic oil pan which will be nearly impossible to modify. The trans will fit in the tunnel without modification, both the 6R80 and the 10 speed. However you will need to fabricate a crossmember, none of ours will work. Driveshafts will need to be custom built since the new ones are aluminum. If you are lucky you can find an EB truck with a 8.8 still, but most of them are 9.75 rear ends. The driveshafts are mostly aluminum but there are still steel ones out there. The front pumpkin is an 8.8 so you will need a completely custom shaft for a bullnose.

I do believe they make standalone TCM's for the 6R80 now. However your best best is to grab one with the truck as it's already mated to that PCM and you won't have to mess around with it.

Don't rule out the 2.7 either, that thing is a hot little motor!

All in all I don't think it would be anymore difficult to swap in than a Coyote would be. I would be checking those builds for references. The EB and the Coyote use the same bellhousing pattern. There are companies than make adapter plates now to mate Coyote's to C6 and C4 transmissions, so I would think they would work with an AOD or even an E4OD if that was the case. I would check that out. That may save you a lot of headache using an older trans. Then, you can retain a mechanical transfer case if you wanted. This will also allow you to retain the use of the factory speedometer, since the new ones are all digital (even the analog gauge is actually digital) and controlled by the ABS system at each wheel.

Ford does sell standalone EB controllers but for what it's going to cost you you are better off finding a wrecked truck, and they are kind of hard to get ahold of.

[Ray Cecil]

If you're going to do it, go with the 6R80 trans. That 10 speed is garbage! We cannot keep them out of the shop.

By the way, the 3.5 EB trucks are controlled by a whopping 47 different computers/modules. Something to think about. The main one you are going to need are the obvious PCM, but you're going to need the fuel pump driver module, it's fuel system, and a bunch of others. Best thing you can do is buy a complete donor truck. I think you can get away without the BCM, but not 100% sure. Most of these computers are for all the interior electrical so you should be ok.

You will have to figure out a way to use the gas pedal assembly and module for the drive by wire system since there is no throttle cable. This probably won't be too hard, there are a few guys doing LS and Coyote swaps on Facebook right now, I would look around there and see if you can find them to ask them about how to set up that system.

The 4wd system still uses an, although revised, IWE system controlled by vacuum to engage the front end. However depending on the year of the truck this is all module controlled as well.

There is going to be a LOT of fabrication. The motor mounts will be the easy part, but getting the oil pan to clear may prove tough with our crossmembers. The pans are fairly shallow, and depending on the motor you may end up with a plastic oil pan which will be nearly impossible to modify. The trans will fit in the tunnel without modification, both the 6R80 and the 10 speed. However you will need to fabricate a crossmember, none of ours will work. Driveshafts will need to be custom built since the new ones are aluminum. If you are lucky you can find an EB truck with a 8.8 still, but most of them are 9.75 rear ends. The driveshafts are mostly aluminum but there are still steel ones out there. The front pumpkin is an 8.8 so you will need a completely custom shaft for a bullnose.

I do believe they make standalone TCM's for the 6R80 now. However your best best is to grab one with the truck as it's already mated to that PCM and you won't have to mess around with it.

Don't rule out the 2.7 either, that thing is a hot little motor!

All in all I don't think it would be anymore difficult to swap in than a Coyote would be. I would be checking those builds for references. The EB and the Coyote use the same bellhousing pattern. There are companies than make adapter plates now to mate Coyote's to C6 and C4 transmissions, so I would think they would work with an AOD or even an E4OD if that was the case. I would check that out. That may save you a lot of headache using an older trans. Then, you can retain a mechanical transfer case if you wanted. This will also allow you to retain the use of the factory speedometer, since the new ones are all digital (even the analog gauge is actually digital) and controlled by the ABS system at each wheel.

Ford does sell standalone EB controllers but for what it's going to cost you you are better off finding a wrecked truck, and they are kind of hard to get ahold of.

Angelo, wealth of info there! Thank you. Yeah, copart.com has a few 4x4 3.5s. Not sure if I would need the 4x4. I dont plan to use the truck in winter or in mud if I do an eco swap. A 2wd 3.5 donor would suffice. Id keep the trucks stance, and keep large tires on it to appear as a 4x4, but underneath, it would be setup for drag racing.

I think I know a few guys who would love to get their hands on my flareside 4x4 chassis. Cory....

[Angelo Voltura]

Angelo, wealth of info there! Thank you. Yeah, copart.com has a few 4x4 3.5s. Not sure if I would need the 4x4. I dont plan to use the truck in winter or in mud if I do an eco swap. A 2wd 3.5 donor would suffice. Id keep the trucks stance, and keep large tires on it to appear as a 4x4, but underneath, it would be setup for drag racing.

I think I know a few guys who would love to get their hands on my flareside 4x4 chassis. Cory....

I don't think it will be all that bad to do, it wouldn't be any worse than someone putting a Coyote in some 1950s hot rod as far as what parts need to be used.

I have seen a few Coyotes in these trucks. They are WIDE, wider than a 460. There was a few issues with the steering shaft clearing, but with an EB I think you can avoid this, especially with a 2.7 over a 3.5. That being said, it wouldn't be as prevelant on an NA 3.5 but with the EB you need to accommodate the space for the turbos so steering shaft clearance may still present itself as an issue. The Coyote needs massive cutting out of the cradle/crossmember so I think with the smaller engine it will not be as detrimental.

I think your biggest issue you are going to run into with a swap like this is dealing with the PATs (passive anti theft) system that Ford has that will pretty much lock you out of the entire system if any kind of tampering goes on. I have not done the swap though so I am not sure how badly it will be affected, it may not do anything. The PATs sytem is removable.

I can tell you off hand that Coyote standalone controllers are upwards of $6000, they have come down a little though. I would expect an EB to be in a similar price bracket.

From what I gather, the 3.5 is almost a direct swap in a 65-79 pickup, so I can't imagine ours would be any harder.

[Ray Cecil]

I don't think it will be all that bad to do, it wouldn't be any worse than someone putting a Coyote in some 1950s hot rod as far as what parts need to be used.

I have seen a few Coyotes in these trucks. They are WIDE, wider than a 460. There was a few issues with the steering shaft clearing, but with an EB I think you can avoid this, especially with a 2.7 over a 3.5. That being said, it wouldn't be as prevelant on an NA 3.5 but with the EB you need to accommodate the space for the turbos so steering shaft clearance may still present itself as an issue. The Coyote needs massive cutting out of the cradle/crossmember so I think with the smaller engine it will not be as detrimental.

I think your biggest issue you are going to run into with a swap like this is dealing with the PATs (passive anti theft) system that Ford has that will pretty much lock you out of the entire system if any kind of tampering goes on. I have not done the swap though so I am not sure how badly it will be affected, it may not do anything. The PATs sytem is removable.

I can tell you off hand that Coyote standalone controllers are upwards of $6000, they have come down a little though. I would expect an EB to be in a similar price bracket.

From what I gather, the 3.5 is almost a direct swap in a 65-79 pickup, so I can't imagine ours would be any harder.

I wonder if you could "old school" an ecotec. Strip it down to its basic mechanical pieces and hot rod it. Install a distributor of some fashion, lock it out, and use a modern aftermarket fuel injection setup that would control fuel mapping and timing.

If that were possible, the next big problem would be....fitting a transmission.