F250 springs on F150 question

[Angelo Voltura]

Question I just thought of. Did you have to change to a taller shock when you went to the new cc824 springs? Or were you able to get away with the stock shocks?

No I did not have to change the shocks, the shocks are all the same no matter what spring you use. The CC824 spring is just a heavy factory spring, in fact I think the CC824 springs are what the 4x4 F150s have stock.

[Frank Wyatt]

.... Plus driving with a load that squats your truck can get dangerous, front end gets squirrely....

There's no reason that the rear end squatting should make the front end squirrely. The only effect in the front end is a little more caster, and that shouldn't be enough to be significant.

That said, too much weight in the rear can make the front end squirrely. But stiffer springs in the rear won't help that. You just need to balance the load better.

And overloaded soft springs in the rear end can cause the truck to wallow a lot. Stiffer rear springs will help that. But it from the rear swaying, not the front being squirrely.

I guess my only point is that if you're having handling problems with the front end with a heavy load, you need to do more than put stiffer springs in the rear to take care of it.

Also tires can affect how much of a load that you can safely carry. Tires that are not rated for the load being carried or under inflated can impact the truck's handling.

[Jacob84]

Rear spring rates are difficult to figure out. So if Rock Auto has a good way to do it, more power to them.

But, here are the pages we have on the subject:

• Spring Codes: Here you can convert the code on the certification label to the part number of the springs. But that doesn't give you the spring rates.

• Rear Springs: Here you can find the capacity of the various part numbers.

Doubt that will help though, but there 'tis.

Thanks Gary, I'll check those out, I appreciate it!

 

[Jacob84]

.... Plus driving with a load that squats your truck can get dangerous, front end gets squirrely....

There's no reason that the rear end squatting should make the front end squirrely. The only effect in the front end is a little more caster, and that shouldn't be enough to be significant.

That said, too much weight in the rear can make the front end squirrely. But stiffer springs in the rear won't help that. You just need to balance the load better.

And overloaded soft springs in the rear end can cause the truck to wallow a lot. Stiffer rear springs will help that. But it from the rear swaying, not the front being squirrely.

I guess my only point is that if you're having handling problems with the front end with a heavy load, you need to do more than put stiffer springs in the rear to take care of it.

I see what you're saying. The front end of the truck has been replaced with all Moog parts minus the bushings and coil springs. I need to replace those bushings (radius arm and axle pivot), that's probably not helping. And I don't doubt the rear is wallowing because the springs are slap wore out. That may have been what I was feeling. Only feels squirrely when I got a good amount of payload.

If it were your truck what would do to improve towing safety and drivability? I tow and haul on a regular basis but it's still just a half ton and I keep that in mind. If I need to tow something real heavy I'll call one of my buddy's with a bigger truck. The most I'll ever tow is another half ton truck or an open race trailer. Other than that its just brush, boat, lawn trailer, and the occasional load of compost or rock.

[Jacob84]

No I did not have to change the shocks, the shocks are all the same no matter what spring you use. The CC824 spring is just a heavy factory spring, in fact I think the CC824 springs are what the 4x4 F150s have stock.

Sweet, good to know:nabble_smiley_good:

[Jacob84]

Also tires can affect how much of a load that you can safely carry. Tires that are not rated for the load being carried or under inflated can impact the truck's handling.

I 100% agree. I keep a pretty good eye on the tire pressure and always have good tires. The tires I have are the same load rating as stock but next time I'll get a set with a higher capacity just to make me feel better.

[Nothing Special]

.... If it were your truck what would do to improve towing safety and drivability? I tow and haul on a regular basis but it's still just a half ton and I keep that in mind. If I need to tow something real heavy I'll call one of my buddy's with a bigger truck. The most I'll ever tow is another half ton truck or an open race trailer. Other than that its just brush, boat, lawn trailer, and the occasional load of compost or rock.

I had a '95 F-150 SCSB with about a 2.5" lift. After I bought it my family decided that we should have a camper that could tow our '75 CJ5. A motorhome wasn't in the budget so I got a lightweight slide-in camper. Lightweight, but still pretty heavy for an F-150. I figured I was about at my GVWR with the empty camper in the truck. Add people and pack for a week and I was overweight (at least the Jeep was on a tow bar so I wasn't adding tongue weight).

First of all. I DON"T RECOMMEND DOING THIS. Weight ratings are there for a reason. Exceeding them at least eats into safety factors.

That said, the truck wallowed with that camper in the bed. It was dangerous to drive. So I added air bag helper springs. Much like your thought of adding stiffer rear springs but with the ability to deflate them most of the time when I wasn't carrying the camper. I'd measure the height of the truck before setting the camper on it and then inflate the bags to bring it back to the same height. It would squat down about 4" with the camper and it took around 50 psi to bring it back to normal.

That made it a completely different truck. I wouldn't say that the handling was crisp, but it was very similar to my later F-250 hauling that same camper. Again, I know I was eating into my safety margins, but it didn't feel unsafe (I still had a lot more peace of mind carrying that camper when I eventually got a heavier truck).

So I'm not saying your plan to add stiffer springs is bad. And maybe it was just your choice of words. But any time I've had what I'd describe as a squirrely front end I had WAY too much weight WAY too far back. I've actually only ever done that in a 3/4 ton truck and it isn't the rear end squat that messes it up, it's having the load cg behind the rear axle taking weight off the front end. My camper was heavy (for an F-150) and the weight was high which certainly hurt. But the cg was in front of the axle, I packed all of the heavy stuff right behind the cab and the weight of the people was in the cab, so I was pretty well balanced like that.

[swampedout]

Also, sorry if anyone answered this but what is the payload difference 150 vs 250?

[Gary Lewis]

Also, sorry if anyone answered this but what is the payload difference 150 vs 250?

That is tough to answer, so I'll just post this from the 1985 brochure:

[Jacob84]

.... If it were your truck what would do to improve towing safety and drivability? I tow and haul on a regular basis but it's still just a half ton and I keep that in mind. If I need to tow something real heavy I'll call one of my buddy's with a bigger truck. The most I'll ever tow is another half ton truck or an open race trailer. Other than that its just brush, boat, lawn trailer, and the occasional load of compost or rock.

I had a '95 F-150 SCSB with about a 2.5" lift. After I bought it my family decided that we should have a camper that could tow our '75 CJ5. A motorhome wasn't in the budget so I got a lightweight slide-in camper. Lightweight, but still pretty heavy for an F-150. I figured I was about at my GVWR with the empty camper in the truck. Add people and pack for a week and I was overweight (at least the Jeep was on a tow bar so I wasn't adding tongue weight).

First of all. I DON"T RECOMMEND DOING THIS. Weight ratings are there for a reason. Exceeding them at least eats into safety factors.

That said, the truck wallowed with that camper in the bed. It was dangerous to drive. So I added air bag helper springs. Much like your thought of adding stiffer rear springs but with the ability to deflate them most of the time when I wasn't carrying the camper. I'd measure the height of the truck before setting the camper on it and then inflate the bags to bring it back to the same height. It would squat down about 4" with the camper and it took around 50 psi to bring it back to normal.

That made it a completely different truck. I wouldn't say that the handling was crisp, but it was very similar to my later F-250 hauling that same camper. Again, I know I was eating into my safety margins, but it didn't feel unsafe (I still had a lot more peace of mind carrying that camper when I eventually got a heavier truck).

So I'm not saying your plan to add stiffer springs is bad. And maybe it was just your choice of words. But any time I've had what I'd describe as a squirrely front end I had WAY too much weight WAY too far back. I've actually only ever done that in a 3/4 ton truck and it isn't the rear end squat that messes it up, it's having the load cg behind the rear axle taking weight off the front end. My camper was heavy (for an F-150) and the weight was high which certainly hurt. But the cg was in front of the axle, I packed all of the heavy stuff right behind the cab and the weight of the people was in the cab, so I was pretty well balanced like that.

Gotcha, that makes sense. Keeping the load center of gravity in the right spot is most important rather than the level of the truck bed. Next time I’m hauling a bunch of weight I’ll keep that in mind. I appreciate your thorough response, learned something new:nabble_smiley_good: