85lebaront2 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Bill - I'm confused. Your link takes me to the think on the left, and Steve's takes me to the one on the right. What am I missing? Gary, my link was assuming you don't have lock motors or they are bad and need everything. It also shows a 4 door system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Thanks for this Gary/Steve! Made me break out the Viper 211HV I picked up on ebay awhile back. Hope it's ok to add all this in one thread despite different brands as it all relates. On that train of thought - would it be worth adding a subsection with a thread for each model (aftermarket or from another vehicle like Bill's) users go to install? May not be that many differences though... The viper pinout is: -- All circuits in these trucks are positive, correct? Like horn and dome light. -- The viper has a switched ignition source that states: "Connect this wire to an ignition source. This input must show (+) 12V with the key in run position and during cranking. Make sure that this wire cannot be shorted to the chassis at any point. This wire will trigger the system if the ignition is turned on before the unit is disarmed (doors unlocked with the remote). It will also honk the vehicle's horn and flash the parking lights (if connected)." For the 86 7.5 it looks like connector 325 (hot fuel 'hot in start or run' - page 105 EVTM) is a good location for this. What about other truck years/motors? Can this wire be connected directly or should it use a relay? I assume the draw is minimal but I don't see anything beyond that description. --- Dome lights H1/4 Black/White (from Primary Harness Wire Connection Guide) "Connect this wire directly to the domelight circuit in the vehicle. The on-board relay will drive circuits up to 30 amps. The polarity of this output is determined by the connection of the input wire H1/3 in the Relay Harness" So no external relay needed but then in the features section it has: IGNITION CONTROLLED DOMELIGHT "If turned on [the feature], the system will turn on the domelight for 30 seconds when the ignition is turned off. The domelight supervision output H1/4 wire must be connected to an optional relay as described in the Primary Harness Wire Connection Guide." Why does it need an optional relay if it has the on-board one? What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 Thanks for this Gary/Steve! Made me break out the Viper 211HV I picked up on ebay awhile back. Hope it's ok to add all this in one thread despite different brands as it all relates. On that train of thought - would it be worth adding a subsection with a thread for each model (aftermarket or from another vehicle like Bill's) users go to install? May not be that many differences though... The viper pinout is: -- All circuits in these trucks are positive, correct? Like horn and dome light. -- The viper has a switched ignition source that states: "Connect this wire to an ignition source. This input must show (+) 12V with the key in run position and during cranking. Make sure that this wire cannot be shorted to the chassis at any point. This wire will trigger the system if the ignition is turned on before the unit is disarmed (doors unlocked with the remote). It will also honk the vehicle's horn and flash the parking lights (if connected)." For the 86 7.5 it looks like connector 325 (hot fuel 'hot in start or run' - page 105 EVTM) is a good location for this. What about other truck years/motors? Can this wire be connected directly or should it use a relay? I assume the draw is minimal but I don't see anything beyond that description. --- Dome lights H1/4 Black/White (from Primary Harness Wire Connection Guide) "Connect this wire directly to the domelight circuit in the vehicle. The on-board relay will drive circuits up to 30 amps. The polarity of this output is determined by the connection of the input wire H1/3 in the Relay Harness" So no external relay needed but then in the features section it has: IGNITION CONTROLLED DOMELIGHT "If turned on [the feature], the system will turn on the domelight for 30 seconds when the ignition is turned off. The domelight supervision output H1/4 wire must be connected to an optional relay as described in the Primary Harness Wire Connection Guide." Why does it need an optional relay if it has the on-board one? What am I missing here? Scott - You buried those questions pretty well. Hopefully I found them all: Thread: Yes, it is great to put info about other brands in this thread. Sub-section: Jein. I think we need a webpage for security systems, remote locking, and/or windows. That page could have info on all of the different systems we figure out how to use. Or, we might just give the basics and then let people figure out how to tie their system into the basics. And by basics I mean: Door Locks: We've figured out how to interface the system Steve bought. And maybe it is enough to show how to use the normally-open and normally-closed contacts, along with the central one, or "30" if you will. However, your system not only says "normally closed" it also says "87A", which is the terminal on a Bosch relay. So we need to add that to the documentation. Windows: Some of the security systems allow you to open or close the windows, so at some point we'll have address this. Security: We will need to figure out what the typical options are in security systems and document how to use each one. For instance, I think the Ground When Armed output on yours should pull in a relay that takes the tach wire to ground. There's no a chance that the engine is going to run in that case, regardless of the jumpering someone does. And we'd also need to figure out what Horn Honk goes to. And Switched Ignition Input. And...... Speaking of Switched Ignition, I think I'd use the red/light green on the right side of the schematic below. It will be 12v in both Start and Run, and it is the same for all gasoline engines. That way we don't have to figure out what engine and what fuel system they have. And, it could be connected to directly. All circuits are positive? I'm not sure I understand, but typically the power comes in at the top of a page and ground is at the bottom. Dome Lights: I suspect, but don't know, that it will work fine w/o a relay. Set H1/3 up so the relay supplies 12v to the dome lights, and then hook H1/4 to the black/light blue wire for the dome lights, which is probably accessible in the kick panels. But, note that the Ford door switches are not the typical ones that ground a circuit when the door opens. Instead they have 12v on one side and the lights on the other, which will be at ground when the doors are shut. So you need to take that into account in the setup. Does this make sense? Did I get them all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny G Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Scott - You buried those questions pretty well. Hopefully I found them all: Thread: Yes, it is great to put info about other brands in this thread. Sub-section: Jein. I think we need a webpage for security systems, remote locking, and/or windows. That page could have info on all of the different systems we figure out how to use. Or, we might just give the basics and then let people figure out how to tie their system into the basics. And by basics I mean: Door Locks: We've figured out how to interface the system Steve bought. And maybe it is enough to show how to use the normally-open and normally-closed contacts, along with the central one, or "30" if you will. However, your system not only says "normally closed" it also says "87A", which is the terminal on a Bosch relay. So we need to add that to the documentation. Windows: Some of the security systems allow you to open or close the windows, so at some point we'll have address this. Security: We will need to figure out what the typical options are in security systems and document how to use each one. For instance, I think the Ground When Armed output on yours should pull in a relay that takes the tach wire to ground. There's no a chance that the engine is going to run in that case, regardless of the jumpering someone does. And we'd also need to figure out what Horn Honk goes to. And Switched Ignition Input. And...... Speaking of Switched Ignition, I think I'd use the red/light green on the right side of the schematic below. It will be 12v in both Start and Run, and it is the same for all gasoline engines. That way we don't have to figure out what engine and what fuel system they have. And, it could be connected to directly. All circuits are positive? I'm not sure I understand, but typically the power comes in at the top of a page and ground is at the bottom. Dome Lights: I suspect, but don't know, that it will work fine w/o a relay. Set H1/3 up so the relay supplies 12v to the dome lights, and then hook H1/4 to the black/light blue wire for the dome lights, which is probably accessible in the kick panels. But, note that the Ford door switches are not the typical ones that ground a circuit when the door opens. Instead they have 12v on one side and the lights on the other, which will be at ground when the doors are shut. So you need to take that into account in the setup. Does this make sense? Did I get them all? Remote start, and locks are on my agenda for sure. I have hand crank windows, there are adapters that let you keep the hand cranks, but also use a switch to run them electrically. It would seem if there is no remote for that you simply would need a transmitter capable of supplying the same inputs just tied into the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Scott - You buried those questions pretty well. Hopefully I found them all: Thread: Yes, it is great to put info about other brands in this thread. Sub-section: Jein. I think we need a webpage for security systems, remote locking, and/or windows. That page could have info on all of the different systems we figure out how to use. Or, we might just give the basics and then let people figure out how to tie their system into the basics. And by basics I mean: Door Locks: We've figured out how to interface the system Steve bought. And maybe it is enough to show how to use the normally-open and normally-closed contacts, along with the central one, or "30" if you will. However, your system not only says "normally closed" it also says "87A", which is the terminal on a Bosch relay. So we need to add that to the documentation. Windows: Some of the security systems allow you to open or close the windows, so at some point we'll have address this. Security: We will need to figure out what the typical options are in security systems and document how to use each one. For instance, I think the Ground When Armed output on yours should pull in a relay that takes the tach wire to ground. There's no a chance that the engine is going to run in that case, regardless of the jumpering someone does. And we'd also need to figure out what Horn Honk goes to. And Switched Ignition Input. And...... Speaking of Switched Ignition, I think I'd use the red/light green on the right side of the schematic below. It will be 12v in both Start and Run, and it is the same for all gasoline engines. That way we don't have to figure out what engine and what fuel system they have. And, it could be connected to directly. All circuits are positive? I'm not sure I understand, but typically the power comes in at the top of a page and ground is at the bottom. Dome Lights: I suspect, but don't know, that it will work fine w/o a relay. Set H1/3 up so the relay supplies 12v to the dome lights, and then hook H1/4 to the black/light blue wire for the dome lights, which is probably accessible in the kick panels. But, note that the Ford door switches are not the typical ones that ground a circuit when the door opens. Instead they have 12v on one side and the lights on the other, which will be at ground when the doors are shut. So you need to take that into account in the setup. Does this make sense? Did I get them all? Haha I think you got them all That wire does look like a good choice and is also at C325 (guess there are two start/run wires for certain truck configs there). Does this sound right for the Horn Honk? User supplied relay (ground trigger) mounted in engine bay: 85 - H1/12 (-200mA from Viper box) 86 - fused +12v (20amp) 87a - Y/LG from truck horn switch (aka steering wheel) 87 - fuse + 12v (20amp) - jumper from 86 30 - Y/LG to truck horn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Remote start, and locks are on my agenda for sure. I have hand crank windows, there are adapters that let you keep the hand cranks, but also use a switch to run them electrically. It would seem if there is no remote for that you simply would need a transmitter capable of supplying the same inputs just tied into the system. Remote start would be nice. I know it can be done with carbs but I'd have a hard time trusting it. Camano came with manual windows but a PO had put one of those kits in. I pulled it out to replace with the factory setup but it did seem to work just fine. The handle covers looked a little out of place even though they were painted to match. DEI (Viper) 529T or 530T look to be popular window modules that take a - or + trigger from a keyless entry module. I haven't found yet if they contain a built in relay or if they require an external one. Edit: Looks like 530T at least doesn't need an external relay AND provides one-touch up and down which would be really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 Does this sound right for the Horn Honk? User supplied relay (ground trigger) mounted in engine bay: 85 - H1/12 (-200mA from Viper box) 86 - fused +12v (20amp) 87a - Y/LG from truck horn switch (aka steering wheel) 87 - fuse + 12v (20amp) - jumper from 86 30 - Y/LG to truck horn Jein. (You are going to understand German soon.) There are two scenarios, as shown below. With speed control, which I assume you have, there is yellow/light green after the relay. But on the trucks w/o speed control the wire after the horn switch is dark blue. Further, C305(A/B) is on the steering column and the relay is under the hood. So why not say you'll tap into the dark blue wire under the hood? That'll work for both scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Does this sound right for the Horn Honk? User supplied relay (ground trigger) mounted in engine bay: 85 - H1/12 (-200mA from Viper box) 86 - fused +12v (20amp) 87a - Y/LG from truck horn switch (aka steering wheel) 87 - fuse + 12v (20amp) - jumper from 86 30 - Y/LG to truck horn Jein. (You are going to understand German soon.) There are two scenarios, as shown below. With speed control, which I assume you have, there is yellow/light green after the relay. But on the trucks w/o speed control the wire after the horn switch is dark blue. Further, C305(A/B) is on the steering column and the relay is under the hood. So why not say you'll tap into the dark blue wire under the hood? That'll work for both scenarios. I did mean to but forgot to add the caveat that the Y/LG was for Cruise trucks so glad you mentioned it. I would definitely agree with tapping in under the hood. I was thinking the Y/LG was under the hood though (was messing with wiring today)... Just ran out and checked and it looks like both are under the hood but not the same Y/LG in the diagram. This Y/LG is after the DB and connects to the horns (plural). Might be a PO mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 Ah! I was trying to figure out what DB stood for - I rationalized it as dB I did mean to but forgot to add the caveat that the Y/LG was for Cruise trucks so glad you mentioned it. I would definitely agree with tapping in under the hood. I was thinking the Y/LG was under the hood though (was messing with wiring today)... Just ran out and checked and it looks like both are under the hood but not the same Y/LG in the diagram. This Y/LG is after the DB and connects to the horns (plural). Might be a PO mod? Something in the back of my mind says there was a y/lg jumper that connected the two horns. I think one end had a female 1/4" connector with a male tap, and the other end was just female 1/4". Put that on the two horns and the DB went on the male connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Something in the back of my mind says there was a y/lg jumper that connected the two horns. I think one end had a female 1/4" connector with a male tap, and the other end was just female 1/4". Put that on the two horns and the DB went on the male connector. That sounds like what I saw out there. So one could make a jumper between the DB and Y/LG that they then cut. That way they can revert to stock if wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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