302 Alternator Mounting Brackets?

[Rembrant]

Hi Folks,

I am removing all of the smog equipment from my 1984 F150 (302) and it hadn't occurred to me until disassembly time, that I was going to have this big ugly chunk of iron for an alternator mount. (Big and ugly because it was also the mount for the air pump).

Is there a simple/cheap solution for re-mounting the alternator? I took a look on Ebay, and there must be hundreds of SBF alternator brackets on there, but they are mostly individual pieces...all of which require other misc individual parts and pieces to work properly.

Any suggestions from the BTDT crowd? Thanks!

[Gary Lewis]

I worked the bracket for a 351M/400 over like shown below. It works well.

You start with a perfectly good chunk of fairly soft cast iron that looks like this, and cut on the red lines. And then cut some more. And then grind a bunch. But, it isn't that easy to tell the truth. This thing is all angles and protrusions and is even hard to secure in the vise. But, it can be done. Whack the spacer off that's at the top of the picture and then make a few more cuts to get as much of the excess off that you can. Then cut the rest of the goal posts off where the red line shows at the bottom of the picture.

Then turn the piece that mounts to the water pump over and cut more on the red line shown below to get the angle shown. And grind on it to clean it all up.

Next up is the spacer. I did mine in the lathe, but that really isn't necessary. And, it takes a long time even with a lathe since the thing doesn't start out very round at all so you have to be really careful and take lots of cuts. Without a lathe I would put a bolt through it and go to the bench grinder, which is what I did at the start to take some of the lobes off.

And here's what my finished product looks like mounted. This is the 2nd one I've done.

[Rembrant]

I worked the bracket for a 351M/400 over like shown below. It works well.

You start with a perfectly good chunk of fairly soft cast iron that looks like this, and cut on the red lines. And then cut some more. And then grind a bunch. But, it isn't that easy to tell the truth. This thing is all angles and protrusions and is even hard to secure in the vise. But, it can be done. Whack the spacer off that's at the top of the picture and then make a few more cuts to get as much of the excess off that you can. Then cut the rest of the goal posts off where the red line shows at the bottom of the picture.

Then turn the piece that mounts to the water pump over and cut more on the red line shown below to get the angle shown. And grind on it to clean it all up.

Next up is the spacer. I did mine in the lathe, but that really isn't necessary. And, it takes a long time even with a lathe since the thing doesn't start out very round at all so you have to be really careful and take lots of cuts. Without a lathe I would put a bolt through it and go to the bench grinder, which is what I did at the start to take some of the lobes off.

And here's what my finished product looks like mounted. This is the 2nd one I've done.

Gary,

What you did looks great! Mine is a heavier and thicker cast bracket that is mounted on the front of the head (rather than on the water pump like yours). Where yours has one bolt in the end of the head, and two in the water pump, mine has all three bolts going into the head.

I can cut mine if I have to, but it's not going to clean up as nicely because it is curved like a saddle under the missing air pump, and it wouldn't look very nice.

What I'd like to do is buy a set-up like yours...seems ford used a stamped steel triangular plate on the water pump, and a cast aluminum mount on the front of the cylinder head. Trouble is, seems like everybody selling these parts are selling each individual item rather than all of the parts together.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary,

What you did looks great! Mine is a heavier and thicker cast bracket that is mounted on the front of the head (rather than on the water pump like yours). Where yours has one bolt in the end of the head, and two in the water pump, mine has all three bolts going into the head.

I can cut mine if I have to, but it's not going to clean up as nicely because it is curved like a saddle under the missing air pump, and it wouldn't look very nice.

What I'd like to do is buy a set-up like yours...seems ford used a stamped steel triangular plate on the water pump, and a cast aluminum mount on the front of the cylinder head. Trouble is, seems like everybody selling these parts are selling each individual item rather than all of the parts together.

I see what you mean. This is what the catalog has for yours:

What about this one from a 1985/85 5.0L? I'm not sure it will work as the deck height for a 302 is shorter than for a 351W. But, the catalog shows the same EFI/serpentine bracket working for both, so maybe?

[Rembrant]

I see what you mean. This is what the catalog has for yours:

What about this one from a 1985/85 5.0L? I'm not sure it will work as the deck height for a 302 is shorter than for a 351W. But, the catalog shows the same EFI/serpentine bracket working for both, so maybe?

Yes, that upper diagram is exactly what I have now, and the one on the bottom is what I'd like to have.

I didn't realize however that these parts were available into the mid-1980's...I thought these parts were all mid-1970's or so. Very interesting.

Problem is that many if not all of them are likely obsolete?...

Do you have the page that shows the full parts numbers so I can check with the dealer on price and availability?

I'm seeing many of these items on Ebay individually, but they're usually listed for early 1970's SBF engines, and I wasn't sure if they'd fit my 1984....the water pump, alternators, and cylinder heads would all have to be the same.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, that upper diagram is exactly what I have now, and the one on the bottom is what I'd like to have.

I didn't realize however that these parts were available into the mid-1980's...I thought these parts were all mid-1970's or so. Very interesting.

Problem is that many if not all of them are likely obsolete?...

Do you have the page that shows the full parts numbers so I can check with the dealer on price and availability?

I'm seeing many of these items on Ebay individually, but they're usually listed for early 1970's SBF engines, and I wasn't sure if they'd fit my 1984....the water pump, alternators, and cylinder heads would all have to be the same.

Again, I'm not sure that it'll work given the block height difference. But, I will see if I can add a new page to the website, on which this forum resides, this afternoon and show the illustrations as well as the part numbers.

If it were me I'd head to a salvage and see if I could find a nice setup on a 351W in a passenger car or another truck. I think the W came out in about 1969, but I don't remember when the AIR pump came out. However, I don't think it had in the early 70's so brackets from one of those should fit. And, the heads, block, pump didn't change, at least as far as the bolt holes are concerned, so any 351W bracket should work on another 351W - as long as it isn't EFI.

The 5.0L was EFI'd in '85 I think, and for the 85-86 years it appears to not have gone serpentine. That's why those two years are different. Looks like in '87 it went serp and the brackets changed dramatically.

But, you could change to serp and since the AIR pump was down low on those you probably wouldn't see it wasn't there.

[Rembrant]

Again, I'm not sure that it'll work given the block height difference. But, I will see if I can add a new page to the website, on which this forum resides, this afternoon and show the illustrations as well as the part numbers.

If it were me I'd head to a salvage and see if I could find a nice setup on a 351W in a passenger car or another truck. I think the W came out in about 1969, but I don't remember when the AIR pump came out. However, I don't think it had in the early 70's so brackets from one of those should fit. And, the heads, block, pump didn't change, at least as far as the bolt holes are concerned, so any 351W bracket should work on another 351W - as long as it isn't EFI.

The 5.0L was EFI'd in '85 I think, and for the 85-86 years it appears to not have gone serpentine. That's why those two years are different. Looks like in '87 it went serp and the brackets changed dramatically.

But, you could change to serp and since the AIR pump was down low on those you probably wouldn't see it wasn't there.

Thanks for the reply Gary,

I'm slightly confused about the 351 though...my truck is 302. I would want brackets from a 302 wouldn't I?

I was thinking today that I should go and check some of the local junk yards. I didn't think there was much around in the way of old V8 cars and trucks, but then again I haven't really looked either.

[85lebaront2]

Thanks for the reply Gary,

I'm slightly confused about the 351 though...my truck is 302. I would want brackets from a 302 wouldn't I?

I was thinking today that I should go and check some of the local junk yards. I didn't think there was much around in the way of old V8 cars and trucks, but then again I haven't really looked either.

Let me chime in on this one. For a number of Years Ford built accessory mounting brackets for the Windsor engines (211-351W) with dual bolt patterns to allow them to fit either the 302 or 351W application. One of the ways this was done was with a cast aluminum oval shaped bracket that the long alternator pivot bolt screwed into. It was asymmetric and was installed with the hole for the alternator bolt up for a 302 and down for a 351. This kept the relationship of the alternator to crank and water pump pulleys constant and required one standard stamped front mount for both engines. Same was done for the power steering pump, and at one point the A/C compressor lower mount had a dual set of holes. Piece 10A336 is one of those "bisexual" brackets.

With the exception of the A/C compressor mount the brackets were cast aluminum and fairly small. I would surmise that the need for air pumps required the redesign of these and cast iron, while heavy and somewhat brittle is strong and easy to machine. If you have any doubt, look at the alternator/air pump mount on Big Blue vs the one on the huck.

[Gary Lewis]

Let me chime in on this one. For a number of Years Ford built accessory mounting brackets for the Windsor engines (211-351W) with dual bolt patterns to allow them to fit either the 302 or 351W application. One of the ways this was done was with a cast aluminum oval shaped bracket that the long alternator pivot bolt screwed into. It was asymmetric and was installed with the hole for the alternator bolt up for a 302 and down for a 351. This kept the relationship of the alternator to crank and water pump pulleys constant and required one standard stamped front mount for both engines. Same was done for the power steering pump, and at one point the A/C compressor lower mount had a dual set of holes. Piece 10A336 is one of those "bisexual" brackets.

With the exception of the A/C compressor mount the brackets were cast aluminum and fairly small. I would surmise that the need for air pumps required the redesign of these and cast iron, while heavy and somewhat brittle is strong and easy to machine. If you have any doubt, look at the alternator/air pump mount on Big Blue vs the one on the huck.

Rembrant - Sorry. For some reason I thought you have a 351W. My mistake.

Bill - Thanks for the explanation.

[Gary Lewis]

Rembrant - Sorry. For some reason I thought you have a 351W. My mistake.

Bill - Thanks for the explanation.

See if this answers the questions: Electrical/Alternators.