Gary Lewis Posted April 9, 2020 Author Share Posted April 9, 2020 Yes I received it the other day. Summit Racing did me right and next day aired me a fresh cam and box of lifters to replace the one I was missing without even questioning it. I threw the idea around with 4v heads, I've thrown boost around etc. Route I'm going here is just a nice street motor. It ran good before, so I'm just bringing it back to where it should be, although upgrading weak links that weren't the first time such as the valve springs. The cam I chose uses an operating range of 1800-5200rpm which as far as I'm concerned matches perfectly with the 2V heads and RPM limitations of the engine by inherent design (9.5" pushrods are stupid long). I am still using a stock stall torque converter and the cam card requires a 2000 stall minimum so I will probabaly be upgrading that as well this summer. Not only that, but the truck is heavy and needs some lower RPM torque. If it was a Cleveland in a car that I wouldn't be scared of turning to 7500rpm I would run 4V heads all day long. But I'll never see those kind of RPMs to make them usable. I am running an Edelbrock 1406 with the electric choke removed. This may change in the future, I always felt it was a bit small at 600cfm. Eventually, when all is said and done, it'll have a stroker big block, but for now I just want to drive it and smoke some tires. She didn't have a problem doing that before ;) I would recommend the Eddy 1405, not the 1406. A few years ago Brandon and I played with a 1405 vs a 1406 on his really healthy 351W. Both were stock, off the shelf carbs, but regardless of what we did and how we jetted it the 1406 didn't come close to the 1405 on top end. We pulled them down and found differences internally that explained it. And they are parts that you can't buy from Edelbrock - we tried. But while you are at this point why not swap in a 400 crank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted April 9, 2020 Author Share Posted April 9, 2020 If I went with the 130A variant it would allow me to upgrade by adding more lights down the road. Currently im at 35.96A with my high beam on, driving lights on, cb and cb amp on. not including other circuits such as whats on the truck to start with or the fuel injection I will be installing. If I add four more auxiliary lights in the form of daylighters that would be 400 watts which would put my total auxiliary circuit at 67.20A which is quite a bit. Would also require I run a larger than 10ga wire to my auxiliary fuse box which I don't think is possible. But 130A would give me more wiggle room. The 95A would be cutting it close but I was thinking I could go with LED based lights from KC on my roll bar if I even run one. just probably wont be as bright as the 100w halogen versions. Ill look at lincolns online, I was looking at a 97 F250 7.5L 95A alternator I think that is the 8 1/4" ear spacing that I need for my '82 with a V belt. Then I found out from rock auto that 92-95 Aerostar is the same. Rock auto has a '92 aerostar alternator by power select without a pulley for $101.95 brand new. I might go with that one if its the same 8 1/4" ear spacing. Photo shows a grey colored regulator so I doubt it is the delayed regulator. it is aftermarket with no markings and it seems they all are grey now. If I knew 150% without a doubt with the 10 second delay regulator would eliminate belt squeal I would gladly run a 130A alternator. Would mean it will last way longer for me with the limited draw my truck has currently. Even with four more 100w auxiliary lights wouldn't put my whole truck over 80A. I don't think you are going to be able to generate 130 amps with a single v-belt w/o squeal, regardless of how slow the regulator comes in. The old RJM site had links to other sites that supported his statement that 90ish amps is all one v-belt will support. The RJM site is gone, unless we can find it on the way-back machine, but I think Jim will agree with my memory of that statement. So if you want to run a 130 amp alternator I'd suggest you go with a 2-belt pulley arrangement. I'm doing that on Dad's truck, and had to make the alternator pulley. If found the right crank pulley, which isn't easy as you have to have two sheaves the same diameter and taking the same size belt. But I couldn't find a 2-sheave pulley for the alternator. So I made one by turning one down on the lathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I don't think you are going to be able to generate 130 amps with a single v-belt w/o squeal, regardless of how slow the regulator comes in. The old RJM site had links to other sites that supported his statement that 90ish amps is all one v-belt will support. The RJM site is gone, unless we can find it on the way-back machine, but I think Jim will agree with my memory of that statement. So if you want to run a 130 amp alternator I'd suggest you go with a 2-belt pulley arrangement. I'm doing that on Dad's truck, and had to make the alternator pulley. If found the right crank pulley, which isn't easy as you have to have two sheaves the same diameter and taking the same size belt. But I couldn't find a 2-sheave pulley for the alternator. So I made one by turning one down on the lathe. Which I cant do which is why I was looking at the 95A version with the slow regulator. I just will have to avoid adding too much more on my truck electrically. At least don't add another four auxiliary lights in the form of the 100w daylighters. I could go with their LED versions but I don't believe the LED versions give off the same light as the halogen variants do. On the two belt setup I would do it but I have dealer AC so I cant do that. My AC is a bolt on pulley and if I get a crank pulley with an extra sheave then I would lose my AC. Not going to lose my AC just to run a second belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Voltura Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I would recommend the Eddy 1405, not the 1406. A few years ago Brandon and I played with a 1405 vs a 1406 on his really healthy 351W. Both were stock, off the shelf carbs, but regardless of what we did and how we jetted it the 1406 didn't come close to the 1405 on top end. We pulled them down and found differences internally that explained it. And they are parts that you can't buy from Edelbrock - we tried. But while you are at this point why not swap in a 400 crank? Gary going back to a 1405 would probably be the wise thing to do. As you stated it felt like it had more top end...that's where I'm noticing the lack of. The cam is advertised for very strong low to midrange and it definitely has all of that. But it always seemed like the carb was under-performing. Granted it ran great just a little lackluster. She was all of 300 horsepower, which I thought was respectable for how mild it was. I'm basically just throwing this thing together so I have something to drive while my other truck is down and so I can build my 429 I bought to replace this engine. It just doesn't make sense to tear this engine down further. The block will need to be bored again, and it's just money I'm not willing to spend on an M engine right now, especially when the big block that inevitably replaces it will generate far more horsepower. If I have a grand tied up into this top end I'll be alright. By the time the big block goes in, I'll have long since converted to fuel injection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Yes I received it the other day. Summit Racing did me right and next day aired me a fresh cam and box of lifters to replace the one I was missing without even questioning it. I threw the idea around with 4v heads, I've thrown boost around etc. Route I'm going here is just a nice street motor. It ran good before, so I'm just bringing it back to where it should be, although upgrading weak links that weren't the first time such as the valve springs. The cam I chose uses an operating range of 1800-5200rpm which as far as I'm concerned matches perfectly with the 2V heads and RPM limitations of the engine by inherent design (9.5" pushrods are stupid long). I am still using a stock stall torque converter and the cam card requires a 2000 stall minimum so I will probabaly be upgrading that as well this summer. Not only that, but the truck is heavy and needs some lower RPM torque. If it was a Cleveland in a car that I wouldn't be scared of turning to 7500rpm I would run 4V heads all day long. But I'll never see those kind of RPMs to make them usable. I am running an Edelbrock 1406 with the electric choke removed. This may change in the future, I always felt it was a bit small at 600cfm. Eventually, when all is said and done, it'll have a stroker big block, but for now I just want to drive it and smoke some tires. She didn't have a problem doing that before ;) 1,800 - 5,200 rpm? What kind of cam is that? The roller Crane cam I got is 1,400 - 5,400 rpm. As far as induction system goes, I looked at these for my '82 but decided against them. This is the EZ-EFI 2.0 dual side draft fuel injection setup, bolts to square bolt intake. Then there is the EZ-EFI 2.0 8 stack fuel injection setup. Both of which are quite pricy and I just don't think they would go with my truck. Maybe if I got the GT-500 style hood I could build a box to sit down over the stacks for fresh ram air. But still both of those setups are $4,000+. I think I will stick with the sniper Stealth I am looking at, can do a whole fuel injection install for under $2,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Voltura Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1,800 - 5,200 rpm? What kind of cam is that? The roller Crane cam I got is 1,400 - 5,400 rpm. As far as induction system goes, I looked at these for my '82 but decided against them. This is the EZ-EFI 2.0 dual side draft fuel injection setup, bolts to square bolt intake. Then there is the EZ-EFI 2.0 8 stack fuel injection setup. Both of which are quite pricy and I just don't think they would go with my truck. Maybe if I got the GT-500 style hood I could build a box to sit down over the stacks for fresh ram air. But still both of those setups are $4,000+. I think I will stick with the sniper Stealth I am looking at, can do a whole fuel injection install for under $2,000. The cam is originally an old '80s Elgin CL1225 (I believe that was the number) grind, hydraulic flat tappet, but Summit Racing has since taken them over and grinds the old numbers now. If you go on Summit the cam number is 5201, and it's the hottest Summit brand cam you can get for a Cleveland/Modified engine. The specs are as follows: Lift: .509/.509 Duration @ .050": 218/228 Duration (adv): 280/292 LSA: 114 Intake Centerline: 109 Summit advertises it as a fair idle (BIG LOL), 1800-5200 operating range, 2000 stall, headers and gears required. That is the cam I'm putting in it as it is the EXACT same cam I pulled out. Rather than run into surprises I just bought the same thing, just new. I have yet to put a vacuum gauge on it, but it runs power brakes fine. I don't think it pulls much wide open though, but I have yet to verify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 The cam is originally an old '80s Elgin CL1225 (I believe that was the number) grind, hydraulic flat tappet, but Summit Racing has since taken them over and grinds the old numbers now. If you go on Summit the cam number is 5201, and it's the hottest Summit brand cam you can get for a Cleveland/Modified engine. The specs are as follows: Lift: .509/.509 Duration @ .050": 218/228 Duration (adv): 280/292 LSA: 114 Intake Centerline: 109 Summit advertises it as a fair idle (BIG LOL), 1800-5200 operating range, 2000 stall, headers and gears required. That is the cam I'm putting in it as it is the EXACT same cam I pulled out. Rather than run into surprises I just bought the same thing, just new. I have yet to put a vacuum gauge on it, but it runs power brakes fine. I don't think it pulls much wide open though, but I have yet to verify that. Nice. Cam I got for my 306 build is Cranes old Energy brand roller cam since renamed to TruckMax Specs are as follows : Lift : 0.520"/0.542" Duration @ 0.050" : 216*/224* LSA : 112* Intake Center Line : 107* Exhaust Center Line : 117* My cam card says this in the description for mine Good low end torque and HP, good idle, daily usage, performance and fuel efficiency, off road, towing, 2,400 - 3,000 rpm cruise, 8.75:1 to 10.0:1 compression ratio advised. 6,000 rpm redline Recommended RPM range with matching components Min : 1400 Max : 5400 Valve float : 6000 Based off the overlap calculator I use, it is showing not a whole lot of valve overlap on this cam. I had to update this part, I didn't notice it I needed to set the valve timing 5* advance as the cam is ground on a 5* advance position when installed straight up. This put the intake and exhaust center line right where they needed to be. This is also the smallest cam crane made for trucks in a roller. I didn't want big for my daily driver, I wanted something with as smooth an idle as possible that felt stock basically. I don't mind a little exhaust note as I have hedman shorty street headers that will be running through OE spec exhaust but the muffler instead of oe will be a magnaflow 6" round XL 3 chamber muffler in OE case length and OE 2 1/4" size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Voltura Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Nice. Cam I got for my 306 build is Cranes old Energy brand roller cam since renamed to TruckMax Specs are as follows : Lift : 0.520"/0.542" Duration @ 0.050" : 216*/224* LSA : 112* Intake Center Line : 107* Exhaust Center Line : 117* My cam card says this in the description for mine Good low end torque and HP, good idle, daily usage, performance and fuel efficiency, off road, towing, 2,400 - 3,000 rpm cruise, 8.75:1 to 10.0:1 compression ratio advised. 6,000 rpm redline Recommended RPM range with matching components Min : 1400 Max : 5400 Valve float : 6000 Based off the overlap calculator I use, it is showing not a whole lot of valve overlap on this cam. I had to update this part, I didn't notice it I needed to set the valve timing 5* advance as the cam is ground on a 5* advance position when installed straight up. This put the intake and exhaust center line right where they needed to be. This is also the smallest cam crane made for trucks in a roller. I didn't want big for my daily driver, I wanted something with as smooth an idle as possible that felt stock basically. I don't mind a little exhaust note as I have hedman shorty street headers that will be running through OE spec exhaust but the muffler instead of oe will be a magnaflow 6" round XL 3 chamber muffler in OE case length and OE 2 1/4" size. That's an interesting website. I inputted mine. While it does smooth out a little once warmed up when it's cold it is CHOPPY. I wonder why. I wouosnt think with a 114 LSA it would idle that rough but with a 109 centerline that might be why. Cold start... Warmed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_S85 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 That's an interesting website. I inputted mine. While it does smooth out a little once warmed up when it's cold it is CHOPPY. I wonder why. I wouosnt think with a 114 LSA it would idle that rough but with a 109 centerline that might be why. Cold start... Warmed up Might be your carb, might be struggling to run when cold. From what I understand on the intake center line it determines how snappy the engine will be. Engine builder I know told me my cam being cut on a 107* intake center line will make the engine pull hard and fast. The lobe separation is what determines idle quality a 114* should be dead smooth with mine being a 112 it should be smooth but not as smooth as stock. Its why I am going EFI on my setup cause every engine ive put this sniper on at work that had a roughness to the idle, it was way smoother running with the fuel injection. The snappiness of the throttle when reving was also improved as well with the sniper over the carb. On yours, the exhaust note sounds good. I don't know how mine will sound. I never heard back from this guy but this guy has a fuel injected 91 302 with magnaflow exhaust running the same cam I am running so I figured mine should sound very similar to this. I don't know what mufflers he has on his, but it sounds pretty damn quiet till the throttle is nailed so I hope mine is the same way that was my goal to have a fairly stock sounding truck to be as a sleeper. I don't want the whole world knowing my 302 is actually a 306 with a few goodies thrown in such as the roller cam, the AFR Renegade 165cc heads I have for my build with a goal of 9.5:1 compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Voltura Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Might be your carb, might be struggling to run when cold. From what I understand on the intake center line it determines how snappy the engine will be. Engine builder I know told me my cam being cut on a 107* intake center line will make the engine pull hard and fast. The lobe separation is what determines idle quality a 114* should be dead smooth with mine being a 112 it should be smooth but not as smooth as stock. Its why I am going EFI on my setup cause every engine ive put this sniper on at work that had a roughness to the idle, it was way smoother running with the fuel injection. The snappiness of the throttle when reving was also improved as well with the sniper over the carb. On yours, the exhaust note sounds good. I don't know how mine will sound. I never heard back from this guy but this guy has a fuel injected 91 302 with magnaflow exhaust running the same cam I am running so I figured mine should sound very similar to this. I don't know what mufflers he has on his, but it sounds pretty damn quiet till the throttle is nailed so I hope mine is the same way that was my goal to have a fairly stock sounding truck to be as a sleeper. I don't want the whole world knowing my 302 is actually a 306 with a few goodies thrown in such as the roller cam, the AFR Renegade 165cc heads I have for my build with a goal of 9.5:1 compression. That engine in mine is very snappy. It definitely has a fair idle when warmed up. It is not smooth but not super choppy either I guess. Just hoping it runs/sounds the same when the new one goes back in. I'm a little nervous now but im.pretty sure my replacement cam is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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