Banning Members

[Gary Lewis]

Folks - The admin's have been working on criteria and a process by which we will ban users - if, perish the thought, we have to. And we would like your input on the following.

 

First, here's the criteria statement:

 

When considering banning a member we should use the guidelines in the New Members Start Here folder as well as the first post of the Family, Brotherhood, & Kindness thread.

 

Specifically, the guidelines say "We are a group of people who enjoy the 1980 - 86 Ford trucks and want to help each other use, maintain, repair, and upgrade them. It is family-oriented, which means we don't appreciate obscenities or provocative pictures, but we do appreciate each other, which means we don't yell at nor talk down to others."

 

And that is further refined in the Brotherhood post as:

 

• Dogmatic Approach: This is defined as "the expression of an opinion or belief as if it were a fact: positiveness in assertion of opinion especially when unwarranted or arrogant". Just because we remember it one way doesn't make it so. And just because it is in print or on the internet does not make it so.

 

• Opinions: I have many opinions, but my opinions aren't any more important than yours. So if I try to tell you that mine are more important than yours then I'm "talking down" to you from my perceived lofty perch.

 

• Argumentative: Continually pushing a view/opinion and having to have the last word. State your opinion, gently, and let it go.

 

So if a member's actions/words do not follow those guidelines/rules then they need to correct them.

 

And here's the draft process we've devised:

 

In general a member should have a warning. However, there may be some situations that require immediate action, so these are just guidelines. Here's an approach for a member who seems to have just gone awry for the first time:

 

1. Send Email #1, cc'ing the other admins, which reminds the member of the guidelines and points out what was said that doesn't comply. And, Email #1 asks that the wrong be righted w/in 24 hours and that we get an email back pledging not to do that again.

 

2. If the wrong is righted and the pledge is received w/in the 24 hour period then a one-year clock is started, and if no more instances are observed then the wrong is forgiven/forgotten.

 

3. If the wrong isn't righted or the pledge isn't received w/in the 24 hour period then the member is temporarily banned and Email #2 is sent. If subsequent to the banning and the email being sent the wrong is then righted and the pledge received w/in 24 hours then a one month clock is started.

 

4. If another offence occurs w/in the one-year or one-month timeframe then the user is permanently banned.

 

Emails #1 and #2 have not yet been drafted. But your thoughts and suggestions about the criteria and process would be appreciated.

[salans7]

I believe you may have it backwards.

If a wrong is immediately righted, it should be a lesser clock due to their quick attention to the matter. If the wrong is not immediately righted, and the user is banned, that should net a year long clock since it is a more serious offense. Repeat offenders may necessitate a permanent ban, if possible.

In my opinion 24 hours is a bit too close of a time frame for corrective action to be applied. Say I post something against the rules at 5pm today, and then log off of the forum for the night. Tomorrow I decide to work on my truck, and do not log onto the forum until 8pm, 27 hours later. That puts me out of the time frame and nets me a ban, even though I hadn't even viewed the forum since the initial incident. 48 hours may be a more reasonable time frame, since some of us aren't mobile users and only view the forum/emails at night.

[Gary Lewis]

I believe you may have it backwards.

If a wrong is immediately righted, it should be a lesser clock due to their quick attention to the matter. If the wrong is not immediately righted, and the user is banned, that should net a year long clock since it is a more serious offense. Repeat offenders may necessitate a permanent ban, if possible.

In my opinion 24 hours is a bit too close of a time frame for corrective action to be applied. Say I post something against the rules at 5pm today, and then log off of the forum for the night. Tomorrow I decide to work on my truck, and do not log onto the forum until 8pm, 27 hours later. That puts me out of the time frame and nets me a ban, even though I hadn't even viewed the forum since the initial incident. 48 hours may be a more reasonable time frame, since some of us aren't mobile users and only view the forum/emails at night.

Good thinking on the one month vs one year, Shaun.

And, I see what you are saying about 24 hours vs 48 hours. The issue is that in the 48 hours a lot of harm can be done. Why is why an email is sent. Do you check your email often enough to catch it?

[85lebaront2]

Good thinking on the one month vs one year, Shaun.

And, I see what you are saying about 24 hours vs 48 hours. The issue is that in the 48 hours a lot of harm can be done. Why is why an email is sent. Do you check your email often enough to catch it?

I don't know about Shaun, but I (a) do not go on forums etc. on my phone unless I have to look for something (b) do not use gmail on my phone unless I am expecting something I need to see © when I am in my garage it is a steel building and well grounded so with the doors closed I have little or no reception (d) when working on something I generally ignore my phone as getting my hands on it, unlocking it and hoping I have a good enough signal to actually answer it results in 10-15 mins or more of nothing getting done and being totally PO'd at what was probably a spam call.

[Gary Lewis]

I don't know about Shaun, but I (a) do not go on forums etc. on my phone unless I have to look for something (b) do not use gmail on my phone unless I am expecting something I need to see © when I am in my garage it is a steel building and well grounded so with the doors closed I have little or no reception (d) when working on something I generally ignore my phone as getting my hands on it, unlocking it and hoping I have a good enough signal to actually answer it results in 10-15 mins or more of nothing getting done and being totally PO'd at what was probably a spam call.

Bill - Are you advocating for more time than 24 hours? Or more time than 48 hours? Or?

 

[Ray Cecil]

After seeing it written out. Two thoughts.

1. I am 2nd guessing the chance given, and time (in hours) to correct the offending post. Shaun and Bill brought up a good point. Some folks could be off a computer for days. I suggest that ANY offending post be immediately swept by an admin if it breaks a guideline. No chance should be given for the user to correct.

2. No clocks. 1st email sent immediately after thread sweep, reminding user of guidelines. If the user cannot comply immediately, permanently ban them. If they comply, then all is good. 2nd offense anytime after 1st email, ban them, no warnings, no explainations.

This simplifies it. Also, who wants to keep tabs on how much time its been since joe schmo got a warning? Not I.

[salans7]

After seeing it written out. Two thoughts.

1. I am 2nd guessing the chance given, and time (in hours) to correct the offending post. Shaun and Bill brought up a good point. Some folks could be off a computer for days. I suggest that ANY offending post be immediately swept by an admin if it breaks a guideline. No chance should be given for the user to correct.

2. No clocks. 1st email sent immediately after thread sweep, reminding user of guidelines. If the user cannot comply immediately, permanently ban them. If they comply, then all is good. 2nd offense anytime after 1st email, ban them, no warnings, no explainations.

This simplifies it. Also, who wants to keep tabs on how much time its been since joe schmo got a warning? Not I.

I check my email maybe three times a week. Sometimes I can go a whole week without checking it unless I am expecting an email from somebody. So an email notice would go unnoticed by me otherwise.

[Gary Lewis]

I check my email maybe three times a week. Sometimes I can go a whole week without checking it unless I am expecting an email from somebody. So an email notice would go unnoticed by me otherwise.

Ok, so email notification isn't going to be a good avenue via which to contact the member in question. And leaving the offending post for however long it takes for the poster to correct it isn't a good approach.

So, maybe we need to immediately move the post to quarantine, which is good because when you move a post you also get the responses to it. But that requires the admins to be very involved.

Keep those thoughts coming, please.

[kramttocs]

Ok, so email notification isn't going to be a good avenue via which to contact the member in question. And leaving the offending post for however long it takes for the poster to correct it isn't a good approach.

So, maybe we need to immediately move the post to quarantine, which is good because when you move a post you also get the responses to it. But that requires the admins to be very involved.

Keep those thoughts coming, please.

I am responding only to Gary's last post but before it's ruled out completely I think email is the way to go. We all realize that not everyone is monitoring their emails 24/7 and that's great for a number of reasons (I am in full support of this) but we are talking in the context of an online forum. When dealing with technology it's expected that communication via technology will be used. It's really the only option if the plan is to first give the user a chance to correct/clarify/apologize for/delete their post.

If they don't respond in the time or manner that the rules specify then that is on them and up to the admins to deal with on a case by case basis regarding extenuating circumstances - IF it means the final strike was dealt. If it means they have a non-banning strike on their record for a period of time because they didn't check their email in time, so be it.

Regarding admins removing the posts and replies I will say that I've seen that done well and done poorly. Of course it all depends upon the post in question but usually the more transparent the better regarding the reason for posts disappearing.

Have you ran this by an admin on another site (no name needed) to see if he has any suggestions? Something all online public forums go through so might be worth taking an existing set of guidelines and tweaking them if needed.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I am responding only to Gary's last post but before it's ruled out completely I think email is the way to go. We all realize that not everyone is monitoring their emails 24/7 and that's great for a number of reasons (I am in full support of this) but we are talking in the context of an online forum. When dealing with technology it's expected that communication via technology will be used. It's really the only option if the plan is to first give the user a chance to correct/clarify/apologize for/delete their post.

If they don't respond in the time or manner that the rules specify then that is on them and up to the admins to deal with on a case by case basis regarding extenuating circumstances - IF it means the final strike was dealt. If it means they have a non-banning strike on their record for a period of time because they didn't check their email in time, so be it.

Regarding admins removing the posts and replies I will say that I've seen that done well and done poorly. Of course it all depends upon the post in question but usually the more transparent the better regarding the reason for posts disappearing.

Have you ran this by an admin on another site (no name needed) to see if he has any suggestions? Something all online public forums go through so might be worth taking an existing set of guidelines and tweaking them if needed.

Bottom to top: Good idea on the admin from the other forum. The guy you met in September. I've talked with him about this kind of thing before, but not the specifics. I will.

As for transparency in removing posts, if we get on it quickly before someone else posts it is easy and clean. Not so later, and it can become very tedious.

Concerning email, if we remove the offending post then we could wait a few days before the member gets back to us. In the interim we might want to put a temp ban on so that member isn't posting on another thread and, possibly compounding the problem.

Thanks.