Just checking in - new project started - EFI on '82

[LARIAT 85]

Yes, the new EFI systems appear to do a very good job of self tuning. So I think this should solve your driveability problems. Hope you'll take lots of pics along the way.

I've spent quite a bit of time with EFI self-tuners on motorcycles, and they are outstanding in how well they tune.

I understand where Rick is coming from...you're probably on your own with it, but at least you can see what it's doing. In my area, I don't think it would be very easy to find somebody to work on anything pre-OBDII.

I've been lusting after one of these EFI systems, but they aren't cheap. I do like the Atomic kit though as it tied into the distributor and even has a fake vacuum advance function.

I'm subscribing to see how this goes. Welcome aboard new guy!

I must be extremely lucky or something, because my truck with a carburetor runs as good as any vehicle I have ever had with EFI. Lucille is my first and only vehicle with a carburetor, and frankly - other than that first initial cold start that requires setting the choke - I can't tell the difference between it and a vehicle with EFI. My truck starts right up with a single pump, and I can drive it away immediately under all weather conditions. In fact, Lucille actually starts up *faster* than any fuel-injected vehicle I have ever owned. Seriously. (Unless, of course, it sits for an extended period of time.) It has no hesitations or flat spots, and I can get close to 20 MPG. A carburetor requires no wires or electronics of any kind, and there are no sensors to fail. I haven't had to re-tune it or mess with mine in years.

I have nothing against EFI, but I just don't understand why so many people feel the need to replace their carburetor with an expensive fuel-injection system.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I must be extremely lucky or something, because my truck with a carburetor runs as good as any vehicle I have ever had with EFI. Lucille is my first and only vehicle with a carburetor, and frankly - other than that first initial cold start that requires setting the choke - I can't tell the difference between it and a vehicle with EFI. My truck starts right up with a single pump, and I can drive it away immediately under all weather conditions. In fact, Lucille actually starts up *faster* than any fuel-injected vehicle I have ever owned. Seriously. (Unless, of course, it sits for an extended period of time.) It has no hesitations or flat spots, and I can get close to 20 MPG. A carburetor requires no wires or electronics of any kind, and there are no sensors to fail. I haven't had to re-tune it or mess with mine in years.

I have nothing against EFI, but I just don't understand why so many people feel the need to replace their carburetor with an expensive fuel-injection system.

I'm in the fuel injection camp, in spite of having cut my teeth on carbs. And that's for two reasons:

First, I'm 72.5 and won't be able to work on the trucks in a couple of decades or so. And I want them to continue working when the kids get them. So I'm going with Ford's EEC-V EFI, which has OBD-II, to ensure that mechanics/technicians can plug their scanners in and find the problem.

Second, on Big Blue I want to drive the wheels off of him, including up to 8 or 9,000 feet above sea level. And I don't want to have to play with jetting while doing that. EFI is the only thing that will do that and have the engine run well at all altitudes.

Having said that, my son and I were talking about the Super Bee the other day and it may wind up being a true Six Pack: (Yes, I know what brand those carbs are.)

[Ray Cecil]

I'm in the fuel injection camp, in spite of having cut my teeth on carbs. And that's for two reasons:

First, I'm 72.5 and won't be able to work on the trucks in a couple of decades or so. And I want them to continue working when the kids get them. So I'm going with Ford's EEC-V EFI, which has OBD-II, to ensure that mechanics/technicians can plug their scanners in and find the problem.

Second, on Big Blue I want to drive the wheels off of him, including up to 8 or 9,000 feet above sea level. And I don't want to have to play with jetting while doing that. EFI is the only thing that will do that and have the engine run well at all altitudes.

Having said that, my son and I were talking about the Super Bee the other day and it may wind up being a true Six Pack: (Yes, I know what brand those carbs are.)

Fuel injection is very very reliable. Much easier to tune for power adders too. There isnt a huge difference in peak power and torque with a properly tuned carb vs efi on the same engine. The big advantages Gary already covered.

Im with Rick though on the simplicity of a carb. But not everyone wants to fiddle with jetting, chokes, heat risers and such.

[grumpin]

Fuel injection is very very reliable. Much easier to tune for power adders too. There isnt a huge difference in peak power and torque with a properly tuned carb vs efi on the same engine. The big advantages Gary already covered.

Im with Rick though on the simplicity of a carb. But not everyone wants to fiddle with jetting, chokes, heat risers and such.

I don’t think you need to re jet for 8-9000 ft elevation unless you’re going to stay there.

I re jetted my Holley for 4100 ft because I live at that altitude.

We were going up to the summit of Mt. St. Helens salvaging timber after the eruption with carbureted trucks.

Reminds me, I had a newer bullnose 4x4 company truck, with a lift in the bed so we could get up and work on the Skycrane.

[Ray Cecil]

I don’t think you need to re jet for 8-9000 ft elevation unless you’re going to stay there.

I re jetted my Holley for 4100 ft because I live at that altitude.

We were going up to the summit of Mt. St. Helens salvaging timber after the eruption with carbureted trucks.

Reminds me, I had a newer bullnose 4x4 company truck, with a lift in the bed so we could get up and work on the Skycrane.

I think the argument for carb vs efi is pretty well argued online. I think there are a lot of dyno tests that prove that self learning EFI does create an engine that produces less harmful emissions at any rpm, and better fuel economy. If carbs were better than EFI at emissions and mpg, they would be standard on modern vehicles. They aren't, so there is good reason to trust carbs are less efficient with emissions and mpg.

EFI is more flexible for altitude changes. EFI does have a performance edge, but only slightly vs a properly tuned carb. The performance edge is basically marginal. The biggest CON for EFI is the price point, and some think the complexity. However, companies like Fitech are producing EFI kits that are very competitively priced, and easy to install. Fitech has forced Holley and MSD to have more competitive pricing on their EFI systems. Price will come down as more people switch.

It all boils down to what the individual prefers, and the purpose of the vehicle. I COMPLETELY understand the simplicity of a carb. But I also like the idea of the modern technology inside of EFI.

[CountryBumkin]

I don’t think you need to re jet for 8-9000 ft elevation unless you’re going to stay there.

I re jetted my Holley for 4100 ft because I live at that altitude.

We were going up to the summit of Mt. St. Helens salvaging timber after the eruption with carbureted trucks.

Reminds me, I had a newer bullnose 4x4 company truck, with a lift in the bed so we could get up and work on the Skycrane.

I think the argument for carb vs efi is pretty well argued online. I think there are a lot of dyno tests that prove that self learning EFI does create an engine that produces less harmful emissions at any rpm, and better fuel economy. If carbs were better than EFI at emissions and mpg, they would be standard on modern vehicles. They aren't, so there is good reason to trust carbs are less efficient with emissions and mpg.

EFI is more flexible for altitude changes. EFI does have a performance edge, but only slightly vs a properly tuned carb. The performance edge is basically marginal. The biggest CON for EFI is the price point, and some think the complexity. However, companies like Fitech are producing EFI kits that are very competitively priced, and easy to install. Fitech has forced Holley and MSD to have more competitive pricing on their EFI systems. Price will come down as more people switch.

It all boils down to what the individual prefers, and the purpose of the vehicle. I COMPLETELY understand the simplicity of a carb. But I also like the idea of the modern technology inside of EFI.

Just waiting on some fittings from Summit to get the pressure regulator installed. I'm running the return fuel line to the OEM fuel sending unit (where I will drill a hole in the top and install a bung). I already have a 8AN bung fitting welded to my tank at the rear/bottom so the feed hose connection is simple.

The high-pressure fuel pump will be mounted on the frame at the rear of the fuel tank area. It's best to mount it in the tank if possible, but that doesn't work for me, so I'll have it located about a foot from the back of tank and as low as possible.

This weekend I'll finish up the wiring and do the first startup. I don't have my exhaust hangers yet, so the first start will be on open headers.

BTW, I got the Lokar dipstick yesterday. It's a nice piece. It is about 4 inches shorter than the factory dipstick so installed it is about an inch higher the header tube - so I expect the knob at the top will get hot. I guess I wont be checking my oil level after a long drive without putting on some Kevlar gloves first.

[Gary Lewis]

Just waiting on some fittings from Summit to get the pressure regulator installed. I'm running the return fuel line to the OEM fuel sending unit (where I will drill a hole in the top and install a bung). I already have a 8AN bung fitting welded to my tank at the rear/bottom so the feed hose connection is simple.

The high-pressure fuel pump will be mounted on the frame at the rear of the fuel tank area. It's best to mount it in the tank if possible, but that doesn't work for me, so I'll have it located about a foot from the back of tank and as low as possible.

This weekend I'll finish up the wiring and do the first startup. I don't have my exhaust hangers yet, so the first start will be on open headers.

BTW, I got the Lokar dipstick yesterday. It's a nice piece. It is about 4 inches shorter than the factory dipstick so installed it is about an inch higher the header tube - so I expect the knob at the top will get hot. I guess I wont be checking my oil level after a long drive without putting on some Kevlar gloves first.

Looking good, Mike.

Does the MSD unit have a vacuum connection? And then it provides the ignition advance? Does the distributor still have centrifugal advance in it?

[CountryBumkin]

Looking good, Mike.

Does the MSD unit have a vacuum connection? And then it provides the ignition advance? Does the distributor still have centrifugal advance in it?

You can setup the MSD to use your distributor to do the timing (you just leave the distributor set up as you would with a carb) or you can have the MSD control the timing. The MSD TBI has manifold and ported vacuum ports if you need them.

If you have MSD Atomic control timing, you have to "lock out" the distributor so it can not advance (the weights and springs are removed) and vacuum advance can is not used. The two-wire connector from the distributor (which would normally go to the MSD 6AL box) then gets connected to the MSD TBI/controller. You set the base timing, advance, and vacuum advance timing, you want using the Atomic handheld programmer.

[Gary Lewis]

You can setup the MSD to use your distributor to do the timing (you just leave the distributor set up as you would with a carb) or you can have the MSD control the timing. The MSD TBI has manifold and ported vacuum ports if you need them.

If you have MSD Atomic control timing, you have to "lock out" the distributor so it can not advance (the weights and springs are removed) and vacuum advance can is not used. The two-wire connector from the distributor (which would normally go to the MSD 6AL box) then gets connected to the MSD TBI/controller. You set the base timing, advance, and vacuum advance timing, you want using the Atomic handheld programmer.

That's a nice and simple system. I like it.

[Ray Cecil]

That's a nice and simple system. I like it.

Yes it is. I like it very much. Set base timing on a locked out distributor, and forget it. Let the pooter do the tinkin'