Nothing Special's Moab trip, 2019

[Nothing Special]

Oh, I see! End-over-end wasn't something I was thinking of. And now that you put it in my mind I can't STOP thinking of it!

But I understand about the trailer sway and accelerating. Been there, done that. Tongue weight is your friend. Not enough and don't touch the brakes. SCARY!

Here's a video that you DON'T want to show Janey! It's not exactly what I'm talking about. In this video one front tire climbed the edge rather than dropping off a ledge. But the physics is the same. And no, I don't know these people at all, it's just a YouTube video I'd seen before and was able to find quickly.

I don't like to criticize people on-line, but one value of having videos like this available is to learn from other's mistakes. I haven't watched this recently, but my recollection is that the spotter gave less-than-helpful advice. And the driver certainly did the wrong thing by not staying in the track. But probably the primary problem was that they were on a hill that was simply too difficult and dangerous for them. Could they have done it well? Yes. But they probably should have been gaining experience on easier trails.

Still, we can learn from them. On steep hills, particularly with a short wheelbase vehicle like that TJ Wrangler, be careful to keep it level. Make sure the spotter and driver have clear communication. Make sure the spotter is in a position where he can be seen (but won't be hit!).

By the way, when you don't have a spotter, make sure you know your line (and will be able to see it to stay on it) before you are committed. Slight spoiler here, on day 4 I was going down a ledge where there were some rocks below the ledge to make it into smaller steps, but those rocks weren't along the entire ledge. Dropping off the ledge where one tire landed on a step but the other didn't would be more exciting! But the ledge was well down the hill, I'd need to turn as I approached it, and I wouldn't be able to see the steps from the driver's seat as I approached. So I put a small rock on the ledge to mark my line. That way as I got to it I knew where I wanted to be. Lesley complains sometimes that some of the video she shoots of me in the Bronco ends up being too boring, but that's where some of the fun is, figuring out how and where to go to make a difficult section of trail be easy and safe. (Other fun is in trying to make it up an impossible section of trail, with or without damage. But that gets into the "if you have to ask you shouldn't" category. I don't do that when it's just me and Lesley with no support vehicles or other people to help.)

[Gary Lewis]

Here's a video that you DON'T want to show Janey! It's not exactly what I'm talking about. In this video one front tire climbed the edge rather than dropping off a ledge. But the physics is the same. And no, I don't know these people at all, it's just a YouTube video I'd seen before and was able to find quickly.

I don't like to criticize people on-line, but one value of having videos like this available is to learn from other's mistakes. I haven't watched this recently, but my recollection is that the spotter gave less-than-helpful advice. And the driver certainly did the wrong thing by not staying in the track. But probably the primary problem was that they were on a hill that was simply too difficult and dangerous for them. Could they have done it well? Yes. But they probably should have been gaining experience on easier trails.

Still, we can learn from them. On steep hills, particularly with a short wheelbase vehicle like that TJ Wrangler, be careful to keep it level. Make sure the spotter and driver have clear communication. Make sure the spotter is in a position where he can be seen (but won't be hit!).

By the way, when you don't have a spotter, make sure you know your line (and will be able to see it to stay on it) before you are committed. Slight spoiler here, on day 4 I was going down a ledge where there were some rocks below the ledge to make it into smaller steps, but those rocks weren't along the entire ledge. Dropping off the ledge where one tire landed on a step but the other didn't would be more exciting! But the ledge was well down the hill, I'd need to turn as I approached it, and I wouldn't be able to see the steps from the driver's seat as I approached. So I put a small rock on the ledge to mark my line. That way as I got to it I knew where I wanted to be. Lesley complains sometimes that some of the video she shoots of me in the Bronco ends up being too boring, but that's where some of the fun is, figuring out how and where to go to make a difficult section of trail be easy and safe. (Other fun is in trying to make it up an impossible section of trail, with or without damage. But that gets into the "if you have to ask you shouldn't" category. I don't do that when it's just me and Lesley with no support vehicles or other people to help.)

Ok, I'll watch that - later. Right now the love of my life is sitting beside me on the porch, where we've just turned on the heated floor as we are wrapped in quilts. Anyway, when the coast is clear I'll watch it.

And I understand about end-over-end not being correct. I get the picture, yes we see. (Sorry,

.)

This spotting thing is all new to me. I've read enough that I understand what it is all about. But Janey is not going to be a good spotter as she doesn't understand the physics involved. Yes, she can tell me when I get to a pre-determined spot or if I don't have the tire where I said I want it, so that'll be a big help. But if my son and I are to go to Moab it looks like we'll have to have gotten some experience somewhere. And that's a problem given his distance from me and his lack of time.

Suggestions?

[Nothing Special]

Ok, I'll watch that - later. Right now the love of my life is sitting beside me on the porch, where we've just turned on the heated floor as we are wrapped in quilts. Anyway, when the coast is clear I'll watch it.

And I understand about end-over-end not being correct. I get the picture, yes we see. (Sorry,

.)

This spotting thing is all new to me. I've read enough that I understand what it is all about. But Janey is not going to be a good spotter as she doesn't understand the physics involved. Yes, she can tell me when I get to a pre-determined spot or if I don't have the tire where I said I want it, so that'll be a big help. But if my son and I are to go to Moab it looks like we'll have to have gotten some experience somewhere. And that's a problem given his distance from me and his lack of time.

Suggestions?

I don't have time for much of a response right now, but not sure when I will, so quickly...

I wouldn't expect Janey to spot. It's actually harder to spot than drive off-road, so the spotter really needs to be able to drive it. So unless you are going with someone with more experience who can spot for you, you just need to stay within your limits as you learn.

Suggestions on how to do that? Mostly don't be afraid to turn around, and never go over something that you aren't confident you can come back over (otherwise turning around isn't an option!). And not all trails in Moab are all that hard. You don't need to be an expert to drive there. But starting in Ouray is a good idea too, I know there are a lot of fun, easier trails there.

[Nothing Special]

I don't have time for much of a response right now, but not sure when I will, so quickly...

I wouldn't expect Janey to spot. It's actually harder to spot than drive off-road, so the spotter really needs to be able to drive it. So unless you are going with someone with more experience who can spot for you, you just need to stay within your limits as you learn.

Suggestions on how to do that? Mostly don't be afraid to turn around, and never go over something that you aren't confident you can come back over (otherwise turning around isn't an option!). And not all trails in Moab are all that hard. You don't need to be an expert to drive there. But starting in Ouray is a good idea too, I know there are a lot of fun, easier trails there.

Still not much time available...

I started 'wheeling in 1987, but over those 32 years I probably haven't done more than about 40 trips. So while I'm not a rookie, I'm sure no expert either. There have been a (very) few trips where I've been able to go with more experienced people, but mostly I'm self-taught.

YouTube is a great resource now that wasn't available when I started. Especially watching videos of the trail(s) you are planning of taking, but really anything. Watch what they do, what works, what doesn't. For those of us that have a pretty good grasp of physics there are often things (like not dropping one front tire off a ledge first) that maybe wouldn't be thought of at first, but are pretty obvious once you see it.

A huge thing (like I mentioned above) is don't go anywhere you can't get back from. Duh, but it's not always as obvious when you're in the heat of it (particularly if you are a 23 year old male like I was when I started!). Fortunately many trails start out uphill and it's usually harder to go up than down. So if you can get up it you can probably get back down if you need to. The exception is ledges like we've been talking about. But still, the ledges that can mess you up going down usually aren't a piece of cake to go up either. Just be looking at whether you'll be able to get a line to go straight enough down any ledges before you go up them.

And pick your trails with your (lack of) experience in mind. While there's no shame in getting turned back (Poison Spider just did it to me), it's no fun to start a bunch of trails and get nowhere either. All of the trails in Ouray are doable by a novice who's going to be careful (as we discussed before, Black Bear is scary and narrow enough to maybe not be a good choice for everyone, especially in a full size truck, and Poughkeepsie Gulch is probably best approached by beginners from above and might require a turn-around). But seriously, the majority of Hell's Revenge and Fins & Things are not really difficult. They can be spooky, and therefore aren't for everyone. But I have no doubt that if you spent a week in Ouray, and then a week in Moab, by the end of that week (if not before) you'd be perfectly capable of driving either Hell's Revenge or Fins & Things, with or without your son to spot. From my own experience it's more fun with my son, and just because I'm perfectly capable of doing it doesn't mean Lesley will enjoy it (that's a separate question). But these aren't "expert" trails.

One other thing worth noting. Many will say that you should never go 'wheeling without at least one other vehicle. That's not bad advice, but it's advice I haven't had the luxury of following most of the time. My path instead is to try to be pretty easy on my equipment (I haven't broke anything that's kept me from driving it home yet) and to not get in over my head (as described above). It also gives more peace of mind when you're not completely isolated. That's part of why I comment on what other vehicles we encounter on a trail. Tons of other traffic is a drag, but it can be fun (and sometimes educational) to see other vehicles on obstacles. And if you do break down or get hopelessly stuck it's nice to have the chance of someone coming by that can help you out.

[Nothing Special]

Still not much time available...

I started 'wheeling in 1987, but over those 32 years I probably haven't done more than about 40 trips. So while I'm not a rookie, I'm sure no expert either. There have been a (very) few trips where I've been able to go with more experienced people, but mostly I'm self-taught.

YouTube is a great resource now that wasn't available when I started. Especially watching videos of the trail(s) you are planning of taking, but really anything. Watch what they do, what works, what doesn't. For those of us that have a pretty good grasp of physics there are often things (like not dropping one front tire off a ledge first) that maybe wouldn't be thought of at first, but are pretty obvious once you see it.

A huge thing (like I mentioned above) is don't go anywhere you can't get back from. Duh, but it's not always as obvious when you're in the heat of it (particularly if you are a 23 year old male like I was when I started!). Fortunately many trails start out uphill and it's usually harder to go up than down. So if you can get up it you can probably get back down if you need to. The exception is ledges like we've been talking about. But still, the ledges that can mess you up going down usually aren't a piece of cake to go up either. Just be looking at whether you'll be able to get a line to go straight enough down any ledges before you go up them.

And pick your trails with your (lack of) experience in mind. While there's no shame in getting turned back (Poison Spider just did it to me), it's no fun to start a bunch of trails and get nowhere either. All of the trails in Ouray are doable by a novice who's going to be careful (as we discussed before, Black Bear is scary and narrow enough to maybe not be a good choice for everyone, especially in a full size truck, and Poughkeepsie Gulch is probably best approached by beginners from above and might require a turn-around). But seriously, the majority of Hell's Revenge and Fins & Things are not really difficult. They can be spooky, and therefore aren't for everyone. But I have no doubt that if you spent a week in Ouray, and then a week in Moab, by the end of that week (if not before) you'd be perfectly capable of driving either Hell's Revenge or Fins & Things, with or without your son to spot. From my own experience it's more fun with my son, and just because I'm perfectly capable of doing it doesn't mean Lesley will enjoy it (that's a separate question). But these aren't "expert" trails.

One other thing worth noting. Many will say that you should never go 'wheeling without at least one other vehicle. That's not bad advice, but it's advice I haven't had the luxury of following most of the time. My path instead is to try to be pretty easy on my equipment (I haven't broke anything that's kept me from driving it home yet) and to not get in over my head (as described above). It also gives more peace of mind when you're not completely isolated. That's part of why I comment on what other vehicles we encounter on a trail. Tons of other traffic is a drag, but it can be fun (and sometimes educational) to see other vehicles on obstacles. And if you do break down or get hopelessly stuck it's nice to have the chance of someone coming by that can help you out.

Thursday - Arches National Park

When Lesley and I go on a fourwheeling vacation, with or without the kids, we try to mix in some touristy stuff. Partly to give the others in my family a break from the fourwheeling, and partly because I like to do different things too. As I noted earlier, we started this trip with about a day and a half at the Grand Canyon, but we wanted to experience more of the Moab area too. Part of that was walking downtown almost every night, but we also wanted to spend a little more concentrated time being tourists too.

So Wednesday evening we drove back out to the Poison Spider trailhead where we had seen signs for a short hike to dinosaur tracks. It was only a few minute walk to see this big slab of rock with fossilized footprints.

And take note of my T-shirt here! I wore this the same day Lesley was wearing her "Get over it" shirt. My son gave me this after Lesley got her Jeep Renegade.

Then we took our time driving back on highway 279 (which follows the Colorado River out of town). We also stopped to look at the petroglyphs on the cliff walls along the highway.

On Thursday morning we got up early and drove to Arches National Park so we could hike to Delicate Arch by sunrise. We didn't make it before sunrise, but as it turns out that wasn't a big deal. At least at this time of year it really doesn't get hit by the sun until quite a while after sunrise. Sunset might be a great time to get better lighting, but don't bother getting up early for it! The hike was a little difficult if you were expecting a walk in the park. It took about 2 hours to go about 3.5 miles round-trip (including plenty of time for pictures). But definitely well worth doing rather than just seeing it from the viewing areas near the road.

There were some other cool things to see as well, including some slot canyons and Balancing Rock.

Overall a fun, relaxing day. My only regret was that we didn't know we should be trying to hike to Landscape Arch. It's supposed to be only about an easy 1.5 mile hike, and from the pictures it looks very impressive. But we didn't realize that until we were back at the visitors center at the opposite end of the park. If we had it to do over again I think we'd go to the far end first thing to see Landscape Arch before it got so crowded (it was impossible to find a place to park when we were there around noon) and then stop at the other places on the drive back out.

We have talked about on future trips to Moab (and there will be future trips!) that we might try to spend a day at a different park each time. Some of them might be a little far to do quite the same as Arches, but there's lots of opportunity there!

Sorry about not hitting any trails today. But there's still more to come...

 

[Gary Lewis]

Thursday - Arches National Park

When Lesley and I go on a fourwheeling vacation, with or without the kids, we try to mix in some touristy stuff. Partly to give the others in my family a break from the fourwheeling, and partly because I like to do different things too. As I noted earlier, we started this trip with about a day and a half at the Grand Canyon, but we wanted to experience more of the Moab area too. Part of that was walking downtown almost every night, but we also wanted to spend a little more concentrated time being tourists too.

So Wednesday evening we drove back out to the Poison Spider trailhead where we had seen signs for a short hike to dinosaur tracks. It was only a few minute walk to see this big slab of rock with fossilized footprints.

And take note of my T-shirt here! I wore this the same day Lesley was wearing her "Get over it" shirt. My son gave me this after Lesley got her Jeep Renegade.

Then we took our time driving back on highway 279 (which follows the Colorado River out of town). We also stopped to look at the petroglyphs on the cliff walls along the highway.

On Thursday morning we got up early and drove to Arches National Park so we could hike to Delicate Arch by sunrise. We didn't make it before sunrise, but as it turns out that wasn't a big deal. At least at this time of year it really doesn't get hit by the sun until quite a while after sunrise. Sunset might be a great time to get better lighting, but don't bother getting up early for it! The hike was a little difficult if you were expecting a walk in the park. It took about 2 hours to go about 3.5 miles round-trip (including plenty of time for pictures). But definitely well worth doing rather than just seeing it from the viewing areas near the road.

There were some other cool things to see as well, including some slot canyons and Balancing Rock.

Overall a fun, relaxing day. My only regret was that we didn't know we should be trying to hike to Landscape Arch. It's supposed to be only about an easy 1.5 mile hike, and from the pictures it looks very impressive. But we didn't realize that until we were back at the visitors center at the opposite end of the park. If we had it to do over again I think we'd go to the far end first thing to see Landscape Arch before it got so crowded (it was impossible to find a place to park when we were there around noon) and then stop at the other places on the drive back out.

We have talked about on future trips to Moab (and there will be future trips!) that we might try to spend a day at a different park each time. Some of them might be a little far to do quite the same as Arches, but there's lots of opportunity there!

Sorry about not hitting any trails today. But there's still more to come...

Beautiful pics! I love that area of the country, but we've spent most of our time out there on Powell and have only been through Moab once - and didn't stop. Looks like we need to go back!

[Nothing Special]

.... Looks like we need to go back!

So do we! Several times a day while we were there Lesley would say "I really like Moab!" And I don't think we were out of Utah yet before she was saying "I miss Moab!" She's talked about maybe going back there this spring. No actual plans yet, but we will be back. I just hope she'll let me go to a few other places too!

[Gary Lewis]

.... Looks like we need to go back!

So do we! Several times a day while we were there Lesley would say "I really like Moab!" And I don't think we were out of Utah yet before she was saying "I miss Moab!" She's talked about maybe going back there this spring. No actual plans yet, but we will be back. I just hope she'll let me go to a few other places too!

I think you have a keeper there. A Jeeper keeper.

[Nothing Special]

I think you have a keeper there. A Jeeper keeper.

No doubt!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thursday - Arches National Park

When Lesley and I go on a fourwheeling vacation, with or without the kids, we try to mix in some touristy stuff. Partly to give the others in my family a break from the fourwheeling, and partly because I like to do different things too. As I noted earlier, we started this trip with about a day and a half at the Grand Canyon, but we wanted to experience more of the Moab area too. Part of that was walking downtown almost every night, but we also wanted to spend a little more concentrated time being tourists too.

So Wednesday evening we drove back out to the Poison Spider trailhead where we had seen signs for a short hike to dinosaur tracks. It was only a few minute walk to see this big slab of rock with fossilized footprints.

And take note of my T-shirt here! I wore this the same day Lesley was wearing her "Get over it" shirt. My son gave me this after Lesley got her Jeep Renegade.

Then we took our time driving back on highway 279 (which follows the Colorado River out of town). We also stopped to look at the petroglyphs on the cliff walls along the highway.

On Thursday morning we got up early and drove to Arches National Park so we could hike to Delicate Arch by sunrise. We didn't make it before sunrise, but as it turns out that wasn't a big deal. At least at this time of year it really doesn't get hit by the sun until quite a while after sunrise. Sunset might be a great time to get better lighting, but don't bother getting up early for it! The hike was a little difficult if you were expecting a walk in the park. It took about 2 hours to go about 3.5 miles round-trip (including plenty of time for pictures). But definitely well worth doing rather than just seeing it from the viewing areas near the road.

There were some other cool things to see as well, including some slot canyons and Balancing Rock.

Overall a fun, relaxing day. My only regret was that we didn't know we should be trying to hike to Landscape Arch. It's supposed to be only about an easy 1.5 mile hike, and from the pictures it looks very impressive. But we didn't realize that until we were back at the visitors center at the opposite end of the park. If we had it to do over again I think we'd go to the far end first thing to see Landscape Arch before it got so crowded (it was impossible to find a place to park when we were there around noon) and then stop at the other places on the drive back out.

We have talked about on future trips to Moab (and there will be future trips!) that we might try to spend a day at a different park each time. Some of them might be a little far to do quite the same as Arches, but there's lots of opportunity there!

Sorry about not hitting any trails today. But there's still more to come...

Here's a picture of a picture of my girlfriend, standing beneath an arch, back around '82-'83.

No digital cameras back then.

(Cibachrome from a Kodachrome slide)

Utah sure is beautiful!