Sky's Offroad Design Super Duty RSK Install

[Gary Lewis]

Thought for you, bolt a hunk of angle to the radiator support mounts on each side, even if you end up doing one side at a time you will have the leverage to twist the top in and may be able to do both sides at once with a single come along.

That's basically my plan, but I'm not sure the radiator supports are that strong so I'm planning to bolt to the bumper holes. I think I have some channel and 3' of that will give me quite a bit of leverage. I'll probably put a large ratchet strap from the other frame to the top of the channel so I have some control. Start twisting and see where the holes go.

[Gary Lewis]

Thought for you, bolt a hunk of angle to the radiator support mounts on each side, even if you end up doing one side at a time you will have the leverage to twist the top in and may be able to do both sides at once with a single come along.

That's basically my plan, but I'm not sure the radiator supports are that strong so I'm planning to bolt to the bumper holes. I think I have some channel and 3' of that will give me quite a bit of leverage. I'll probably put a large ratchet strap from the other frame to the top of the channel so I have some control. Start twisting and see where the holes go.

Well, another step forward and another "opportunity" in Conoco-speak.

But first, to follow up on a question Erik asked yesterday. My measurements show the sleeve should be .100" longer to get full engagement in the spring hanger. Here's a shot showing it coming almost exactly half way through:

And now for a plug for Erik at Sky. He's so good to work with. Yes, there are some issue, but this is one of the first Bullnose trucks this kit has been installed on. And he's eager to find out what the problems are and change the kit to resolve them. So don't take the fact that there are issues as saying you shouldn't do this. Erik is going to get this fixed. For sure!

Now for the step forward. The plan to use a 3' lever on the bumper bolt holes got the shackle bolts very close to coming through the inside. But while I could move them up and down with the come-along, they were just too far to the rear to come through.

I called Erik at Sky and we agreed that the best approach would be to enlarge the holes in the frame and shackle where the sleeve goes through to allow the sleeve to pivot a bit. So I took about 1/16" off the front of the holes on the inside, and another 1/16" off the outside holes at the back. And that allowed the bolts to go through.

Here's a shot of the lever and the come-along that allowed the passenger's side bolt to go in, and you can see the bolt sticking through.

Ok, now it was time to move to the next step in the instructions: measure from the center of the factory rear shackle's eye to the eye on the front bracket and rotate it on the frame until it is at 55 1/2". But as shown below, all I got was 54 1/2", And while there's still 3/16" between the upper left corner of the flange and the radiator support bracket, the math says that that will only get me 9/16" at the bolt hole.

So I called Erik again, and we came up with this plan: trim the flange enough to allow it to rotate and get the full 55 1/2". And if that causes a problem elsewhere we'll deal with that then. My math says it'll take trimming 3/16", but we shall see.

But, I can already see two spots where we'll have a bit of trouble. In the pic on the left you can just see the frame box through the hole, and when the flange rotates there will be more interference. So the frame box will need to be trimmed.

And in the pic on the right you can just see the frame box through the upper rear hole so it'll get trimmed as well.

Anyway, we are making progress! And what is it Jim says about progress?

[salans7]

Well, another step forward and another "opportunity" in Conoco-speak.

But first, to follow up on a question Erik asked yesterday. My measurements show the sleeve should be .100" longer to get full engagement in the spring hanger. Here's a shot showing it coming almost exactly half way through:

And now for a plug for Erik at Sky. He's so good to work with. Yes, there are some issue, but this is one of the first Bullnose trucks this kit has been installed on. And he's eager to find out what the problems are and change the kit to resolve them. So don't take the fact that there are issues as saying you shouldn't do this. Erik is going to get this fixed. For sure!

Now for the step forward. The plan to use a 3' lever on the bumper bolt holes got the shackle bolts very close to coming through the inside. But while I could move them up and down with the come-along, they were just too far to the rear to come through.

I called Erik at Sky and we agreed that the best approach would be to enlarge the holes in the frame and shackle where the sleeve goes through to allow the sleeve to pivot a bit. So I took about 1/16" off the front of the holes on the inside, and another 1/16" off the outside holes at the back. And that allowed the bolts to go through.

Here's a shot of the lever and the come-along that allowed the passenger's side bolt to go in, and you can see the bolt sticking through.

Ok, now it was time to move to the next step in the instructions: measure from the center of the factory rear shackle's eye to the eye on the front bracket and rotate it on the frame until it is at 55 1/2". But as shown below, all I got was 54 1/2", And while there's still 3/16" between the upper left corner of the flange and the radiator support bracket, the math says that that will only get me 9/16" at the bolt hole.

So I called Erik again, and we came up with this plan: trim the flange enough to allow it to rotate and get the full 55 1/2". And if that causes a problem elsewhere we'll deal with that then. My math says it'll take trimming 3/16", but we shall see.

But, I can already see two spots where we'll have a bit of trouble. In the pic on the left you can just see the frame box through the hole, and when the flange rotates there will be more interference. So the frame box will need to be trimmed.

And in the pic on the right you can just see the frame box through the upper rear hole so it'll get trimmed as well.

Anyway, we are making progress! And what is it Jim says about progress?

I don't have much to say aside from the fact that I'm glad Erik is working with you to get these issues resolved.

[Gary Lewis]

I don't have much to say aside from the fact that I'm glad Erik is working with you to get these issues resolved.

Erik's been not only very helpful but also apologetic. He said today that while he appreciates me being willing to grind here and there, the average customer wants a kit that fits. So he is wanting to know what changes he'll have to make to get it right.

However, there's the variability of these trucks that really can't be taken into account. Their piece has the shackle bolts running parallel to the ground, but Big Blue's shackle bolts weren't. Nor were they the same, with the driver's side being at more of an angle than the passenger's side. Was it coincidence that the driver's side was the one that was also bent out? I doubt it.

And, is there any credibility to my thought that the TTB action of twisting the spring also twisted the frame horns?

So my bet is that some amount of tweaking will be necessary to install this kit on Bullnose trucks. And, I should have said by this point, a dead-blow hammer is a necessity. I have a Harbor Freight dead-blow and it has been used to put the bracket on, rotate it, and take it off. I don't think I could do this w/o either a dead-blow or a 2x4 and a sledge.

[85lebaront2]

Erik's been not only very helpful but also apologetic. He said today that while he appreciates me being willing to grind here and there, the average customer wants a kit that fits. So he is wanting to know what changes he'll have to make to get it right.

However, there's the variability of these trucks that really can't be taken into account. Their piece has the shackle bolts running parallel to the ground, but Big Blue's shackle bolts weren't. Nor were they the same, with the driver's side being at more of an angle than the passenger's side. Was it coincidence that the driver's side was the one that was also bent out? I doubt it.

And, is there any credibility to my thought that the TTB action of twisting the spring also twisted the frame horns?

So my bet is that some amount of tweaking will be necessary to install this kit on Bullnose trucks. And, I should have said by this point, a dead-blow hammer is a necessity. I have a Harbor Freight dead-blow and it has been used to put the bracket on, rotate it, and take it off. I don't think I could do this w/o either a dead-blow or a 2x4 and a sledge.

Gary, I have definitely found a BFH is a very useful tool on the heavy frame trucks. That, and as you have found anything you can use to pull things into place.

[salans7]

Gary, I have definitely found a BFH is a very useful tool on the heavy frame trucks. That, and as you have found anything you can use to pull things into place.

There was a company making crossmembers for 1998-2011 Rangers that connected the two rear most lower control arm mounts on the front suspension. Every crossmember had to be built based upon the customers' provided measurements because that measurement was different between every truck due to frame flex, especially on trucks that were used off-road.

So I can only imagine that the same applies here, and that makes it hard for Sky to make a 100% bolt on kit.

[Gary Lewis]

There was a company making crossmembers for 1998-2011 Rangers that connected the two rear most lower control arm mounts on the front suspension. Every crossmember had to be built based upon the customers' provided measurements because that measurement was different between every truck due to frame flex, especially on trucks that were used off-road.

So I can only imagine that the same applies here, and that makes it hard for Sky to make a 100% bolt on kit.

Yes and yes, guys. The dead-blow doesn't leave marks, so gets used a lot. The sledge and a 2x4 carries a bit more punch but only gets used when the dead-blow can't get it done even with many blows.

As Erik said, these trucks were crudely-built when new, and they are far from new. Judging by the camper tie downs and the 5th wheel hitch bracket in the bed, this one has been used. And with a 460, two batteries, and a winch sitting up front, as well as probably a big camper hanging over the cab, the front suspension has been carrying quite a load.

So it is no wonder that the frame is wonky. I'm not thrilled by the work it is taking to install this kit, but I am certainly glad that bracket will be on the front tying everything together and the straight axle won't be trying to contort things on every bump.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes and yes, guys. The dead-blow doesn't leave marks, so gets used a lot. The sledge and a 2x4 carries a bit more punch but only gets used when the dead-blow can't get it done even with many blows.

As Erik said, these trucks were crudely-built when new, and they are far from new. Judging by the camper tie downs and the 5th wheel hitch bracket in the bed, this one has been used. And with a 460, two batteries, and a winch sitting up front, as well as probably a big camper hanging over the cab, the front suspension has been carrying quite a load.

So it is no wonder that the frame is wonky. I'm not thrilled by the work it is taking to install this kit, but I am certainly glad that bracket will be on the front tying everything together and the straight axle won't be trying to contort things on every bump.

Well, I think I need to talk to Erik about the issue outlined a couple of days ago. But, I'd like input from y'all in case I'm missing something.

Basically, from what I've found today I believe the front bracket needs to be redesigned. Erik told me on Wednesday that when he installed it on one of these trucks the spring hole was too far forward so he redesigned the bracket and moved it back, and that he may have moved it too far. As of now I'm convinced he is right. But please read on and tell me if you agree.

As background, once the front bracket is on you are supposed to measure from the center of the factory's rear spring hanger for the front spring to the center of the spring bolt hole on the bracket and then rotate the bracket until that distance is 55 1/2". And where we left that bracket was with the dimension at 54 1/2". But, it looked like I could rotate the bracket another 3/16" before it would hit the radiator support bracket, which would give me another 9/16" at the spring hole, and the plan was for me to trim the bracket away from the radiator support until I got the 55 1/2" measurement, as shown in this pic:

However, when I started working on it today it wouldn't rotate that last 3 1/16", so I started looking for why, and found it. The crossbar was hitting the lower front of the frame below the lower front bumper bolt.

So I cut a 1/2" strip off where it was hitting, and got it to this, but only got the measurement to 54 13/16". And note that now the weld is starting to be an issue.

So more looking, and here's what I've come to. In the pic below you can see that the bracket is pivoting on the bolt. I need 55 1/12 - 54 13/16" = 11/16" more movement, but the crossbar is now rotating right up the end of the bumper, so a whole lot of trimming is going to be needed, which will weaken the bumper support - which is where the 12,000 lb winch attaches.

On top of that, as shown below, with any more rotation of the bracket it'll be hitting the back side of the bumper since it will be sticking out in front of the frame.

And, since Sky wants a bolt-on kit I believe the flanges need to be redesigned. So I'll send Erik a link to this post and then call him first thing Monday and talk it over with him. But, maybe I'm missing something so please let me know what.

 

[salans7]

Well, I think I need to talk to Erik about the issue outlined a couple of days ago. But, I'd like input from y'all in case I'm missing something.

Basically, from what I've found today I believe the front bracket needs to be redesigned. Erik told me on Wednesday that when he installed it on one of these trucks the spring hole was too far forward so he redesigned the bracket and moved it back, and that he may have moved it too far. As of now I'm convinced he is right. But please read on and tell me if you agree.

As background, once the front bracket is on you are supposed to measure from the center of the factory's rear spring hanger for the front spring to the center of the spring bolt hole on the bracket and then rotate the bracket until that distance is 55 1/2". And where we left that bracket was with the dimension at 54 1/2". But, it looked like I could rotate the bracket another 3/16" before it would hit the radiator support bracket, which would give me another 9/16" at the spring hole, and the plan was for me to trim the bracket away from the radiator support until I got the 55 1/2" measurement, as shown in this pic:

However, when I started working on it today it wouldn't rotate that last 3 1/16", so I started looking for why, and found it. The crossbar was hitting the lower front of the frame below the lower front bumper bolt.

So I cut a 1/2" strip off where it was hitting, and got it to this, but only got the measurement to 54 13/16". And note that now the weld is starting to be an issue.

So more looking, and here's what I've come to. In the pic below you can see that the bracket is pivoting on the bolt. I need 55 1/12 - 54 13/16" = 11/16" more movement, but the crossbar is now rotating right up the end of the bumper, so a whole lot of trimming is going to be needed, which will weaken the bumper support - which is where the 12,000 lb winch attaches.

On top of that, as shown below, with any more rotation of the bracket it'll be hitting the back side of the bumper since it will be sticking out in front of the frame.

And, since Sky wants a bolt-on kit I believe the flanges need to be redesigned. So I'll send Erik a link to this post and then call him first thing Monday and talk it over with him. But, maybe I'm missing something so please let me know what.

What are you going to do about the rest of the mounting holes? The more you pivot the crossmember, the further you put everything else out of line. How are you going to manipulate the pieces that box the frame in to match the crossmember holes?

I'm SERIOUSLY reconsidering this kit, btw. If you're having this much trouble getting it to work on a truck that it was meant for, I might be better off running their Bronco/F150 crossmember and calling it a day.

[Gary Lewis]

What are you going to do about the rest of the mounting holes? The more you pivot the crossmember, the further you put everything else out of line. How are you going to manipulate the pieces that box the frame in to match the crossmember holes?

I'm SERIOUSLY reconsidering this kit, btw. If you're having this much trouble getting it to work on a truck that it was meant for, I might be better off running their Bronco/F150 crossmember and calling it a day.

Shaun - Don't be too quick to bail. Erik is going to get it right. I'm just the point man that is taking all the arrows.

As for the two through bolts on each side, I sorta addressed those in my email to Erik just now, shown below. If he redesigns the bracket to move the bolt hole forward 1 1/8" then there's essentially no problem with those bolts.

However, my frame doesn't have any holes, so I'm not constrained to where those bolts go with the exception of where the box is w/in the frame.

So, what is different about your frame?

Also, there are guys on the bullnose fords 80-86 FB page following this thread. Kevin Durham and Vincent Wayne Thomason (oh wait, Vincent just replied...) are discussing it and Vincent just ordered the kit yesterday and is now hoping Sky doesn't ship his until this issue is resolved.

I'm sure it will be resolved, and I'm happy to be the guy that helps them do it.

Erik - After today's work I'm convinced you are going to have to redesign the flanges on the bracket to move the pivot hole forward at least 1". I wrote it up here and I'll call you about it on Monday morning. http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Sky-s-Offroad-Design-Super-Duty-RSK-Install-tp34173p36050.html

As said in that post, the issue is that any more rotation is going to require significant cutting of the front of the frame. And, the bracket is going to stick out in front of the frame and hit the bumper. Plus there will need to be cutting or grinding on the frame box.

I've attached a pic of where the thing sits with a measurement of 54 3/8", and it looks like what I suspect you want in the way of fitting to the frame. At that point the other bolts go through with minimal, if any, cutting of the frame box. But any more rotation than that requires some cutting of the box.

Gary

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