Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

This is an exercise in futility! And there are several reasons I say that. One of the reasons is that what BE calls the parameters in the comments isn't what they call it in the tables, so it is hard to find things.

Another is that the calcs use live parameters, like AFR, RPM, LOAD, and even barometric pressure, so you can't just run a calc from the tables. You have to go to a data log and find the live data and then go to the tables and use that data to interpolate between values. For instance, my RPM was 3066 but the table shows 2800 and 3500, so I had to find the what the advance would be there. And the AFR had to be calculated as well. But then I realized that I didn't even log barometric pressure.

Last, there are tables after tables after tables. But it looks like there are two main sets - the ones base on altitude and those based on max brake torque. And I don't know which is used when.

So here's the plan, Stan. I have a tune I created that leans the AFR a bit, both in closed loop awa open loop. So I'm going to write it in and go for a run. Then I'm going to use Bill's MBT Spark table, which has 3 degrees more advance across the board, and write it in and go for another run. Hopefully I won't have any pinging. And I'll check the logs to see that I do have 3 degrees more advance, which will tell me I'm on the right trail. So if I want more I'll know what table to use.

Well, I'm not 100% sure what I found. But I'll try to explain and y'all can tell me what you think.

Both runs were on the same stretch of highway at 64 MPH as shown by the GPS with the truck on speed control for a mile before the bit I'll show you. And that bit is the steepest part of the hill where the AFR has been going to 12.35 for about 20 seconds. And then at the top of the hill I turned around and did a WOT run to 4000+ in both 2nd and 3rd.

The first run was with my "MPG Tune" and the second with that tune + Bill's MBT (Max Brake Torque) Spark table. And here are some findings:

MPG Tune MPG + Bill's Comments

Max Advance 35.5 35.5 Didn't seem to make a difference here

Time off max adv on hill 42.9 sec 41.4 sec This was on the steep part of the hill

Avg AFR on hill 14.1 14.4 Averaged during time spark below 35.0

Max advance during WOT 29 29 Between 3800-3900 in third gear in both cases

The first chart below has the data from the "MPG tune" while the 2nd one has the data after adding Bill's timing table. And both are for essentially the same time and on the same section of road. In the first one the commanded AFR, the white line, first goes down to 12.35 abruptly, then comes back into the 13's, then into closed-loop with the saw-toothed line, back down into the 13's, and then into closed-loop. But on the 2nd chart it comes back into closed-loop twice and for longer times, which easily explains the higher AFR average.

But, the spark is essentially the same, with the lowest line being 21 degrees and the one a notch up being 22 degrees. And the highest line is 35.5 degrees. So I don't know why the truck performed a bit better with Bill's timing. But it did, and I could tell the difference.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, I'm not 100% sure what I found. But I'll try to explain and y'all can tell me what you think.

Both runs were on the same stretch of highway at 64 MPH as shown by the GPS with the truck on speed control for a mile before the bit I'll show you. And that bit is the steepest part of the hill where the AFR has been going to 12.35 for about 20 seconds. And then at the top of the hill I turned around and did a WOT run to 4000+ in both 2nd and 3rd.

The first run was with my "MPG Tune" and the second with that tune + Bill's MBT (Max Brake Torque) Spark table. And here are some findings:

MPG Tune MPG + Bill's Comments

Max Advance 35.5 35.5 Didn't seem to make a difference here

Time off max adv on hill 42.9 sec 41.4 sec This was on the steep part of the hill

Avg AFR on hill 14.1 14.4 Averaged during time spark below 35.0

Max advance during WOT 29 29 Between 3800-3900 in third gear in both cases

The first chart below has the data from the "MPG tune" while the 2nd one has the data after adding Bill's timing table. And both are for essentially the same time and on the same section of road. In the first one the commanded AFR, the white line, first goes down to 12.35 abruptly, then comes back into the 13's, then into closed-loop with the saw-toothed line, back down into the 13's, and then into closed-loop. But on the 2nd chart it comes back into closed-loop twice and for longer times, which easily explains the higher AFR average.

But, the spark is essentially the same, with the lowest line being 21 degrees and the one a notch up being 22 degrees. And the highest line is 35.5 degrees. So I don't know why the truck performed a bit better with Bill's timing. But it did, and I could tell the difference.

Thought of another way to look at it. With my MPG tune we went into open loop for a total of 22.2 seconds climbing the hill. But with Bill's spark table we were only in open loop for 8.4 seconds. Just 36% of the time.

Having said that, open loop isn't the end of the world. Now that I have that table tuned a bit we don't go immediately to 12.35. Instead we hit an intermediate 13.15 and then go to 12.35 if that doesn't get the job done. But it usually does.

[Gary Lewis]

Thought of another way to look at it. With my MPG tune we went into open loop for a total of 22.2 seconds climbing the hill. But with Bill's spark table we were only in open loop for 8.4 seconds. Just 36% of the time.Having said that, open loop isn't the end of the world. Now that I have that table tuned a bit we don't go immediately to 12.35. Instead we hit an intermediate 13.15 and then go to 12.35 if that doesn't get the job done. But it usually does.

I've been really getting lost in all of the tables regarding spark. There's a table in BE for Base Sea Level Spark, Base Altitude Spark, Base Spark Adder For AFR, Base Spark Adder For ECT, Spark ACT Retard, Spark ECT Retard, Engine Load Spark Adder, & O/L AFR Spark Adder - to name just a few if them.

 

However, with a bit of searching I found this site: EFI Dyno Tuning. And they have a page on Ignition Timing/Spark Advance, which looks like it will help a bunch.

 

However, I'm running into a translation problem. Apparently Ford gave the various tables names like FN2300, but that term doesn't exist in BE. Fortunately the guy on EFI Dyno Tuning, Michael Decipha Ponthieux, has given the tables names that I think I can translate to what BE calls them, although I'm not 100% sure on this.

 

So I've created a spreadsheet that shows the Ford FN#, what Decipha (the name he uses on some forums) calls it, and what I think it is called by BE - as shown below. This is a work in progress as I try to get my head around what is being said. IOW, this will change.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I've been really getting lost in all of the tables regarding spark. There's a table in BE for Base Sea Level Spark, Base Altitude Spark, Base Spark Adder For AFR, Base Spark Adder For ECT, Spark ACT Retard, Spark ECT Retard, Engine Load Spark Adder, & O/L AFR Spark Adder - to name just a few if them.

 

However, with a bit of searching I found this site: EFI Dyno Tuning. And they have a page on Ignition Timing/Spark Advance, which looks like it will help a bunch.

 

However, I'm running into a translation problem. Apparently Ford gave the various tables names like FN2300, but that term doesn't exist in BE. Fortunately the guy on EFI Dyno Tuning, Michael Decipha Ponthieux, has given the tables names that I think I can translate to what BE calls them, although I'm not 100% sure on this.

 

So I've created a spreadsheet that shows the Ford FN#, what Decipha (the name he uses on some forums) calls it, and what I think it is called by BE - as shown below. This is a work in progress as I try to get my head around what is being said. IOW, this will change.

 

Didn't do anything on the truck today. Some time ago Janey decided we needed to redo one of the guest bedrooms, and in doing so ordered in a night stand and dresser from IKEA. I didn't realize that IKEA is four-letter word, but my frustration level is maxed out at the moment. Once I finally get this dresser together I'll NOT work on another piece of "furniture" from them, ever again. :nabble_smiley_cry:However, I have done two things "for" the truck. I've joined two more forums - the 460Ford one and EFIDynoTuning. Hopefully one or the other will help me on my quest to translate from Decipha, who has fairly good instructions on tuning, to BE/Core Tuning, whose instructions leave something to be desired.One guy on the EFIDynoTuning forum said "What you need, is the Ford Strategy Module documentation." But I don't know what that is nor where to get it, and a Google search didn't help, so put the ball back in his court. We shall see.

[Machspeed]

Didn't do anything on the truck today. Some time ago Janey decided we needed to redo one of the guest bedrooms, and in doing so ordered in a night stand and dresser from IKEA. I didn't realize that IKEA is four-letter word, but my frustration level is maxed out at the moment. Once I finally get this dresser together I'll NOT work on another piece of "furniture" from them, ever again.

Holy smokes Gary, that must have been an incredibly frustrating experience! I mean, look at all the challenges you've endured on Big Blue's EFI alone and a piece of furniture gets the better of you....LOL!

Sorry buddy, I just had to take that shot! I totally get it!!!

[Gary Lewis]

Didn't do anything on the truck today. Some time ago Janey decided we needed to redo one of the guest bedrooms, and in doing so ordered in a night stand and dresser from IKEA. I didn't realize that IKEA is four-letter word, but my frustration level is maxed out at the moment. Once I finally get this dresser together I'll NOT work on another piece of "furniture" from them, ever again.

Holy smokes Gary, that must have been an incredibly frustrating experience! I mean, look at all the challenges you've endured on Big Blue's EFI alone and a piece of furniture gets the better of you....LOL!

Sorry buddy, I just had to take that shot! I totally get it!!!

Actually, it is probably the culmination of several things:

• AT&T: I fought for 18 months to get them to give me internet via fiber. Seven times I ordered it, and three of those times they gave me a date when the tech would come, and he didn't and no one called. And when I called they said it isn't available at my address - even though my neighbors have it. Finally they sent me a letter saying that fiber is available at my address, and when I called and they said it isn't I told them they'd better escalate as I have a letter from them saying it isn't. So if it isn't then I have them dead to rights in a false advertising law suit. They finally figured out that it is available and sent a guy to install it.

  When he got here he ran it across the creek and through several neighbors yards and said they'd be back to bury it in a few days. Two hours later a neighbor was mowing and cut it. They came the next day and repaired it, but then last Saturday it was mown again. Meanwhile they littered the yards with flags for the utilities, meaning I shouldn't mow, and haven't been back - three weeks later.

  Plus, they promised a $300 gift card that has not come.

• ADT: Because we got AT&T fiber we had a significant discount to go with ADT for a security system. We did, but one of the two garage door openers was bad out of the box, and they had to come out a couple of days later and install a new one. Meanwhile the alarm triggered while we were at church and it was an interior motion sensor, which couldn't go off if no door sensor had tripped as no one was in the house. Turns out it went bad.

  Then the other garage door sensor went bad and when I called a week ago today they said they'd send someone - and haven't. Plus the yard light goes offline with every storm - and we've had one or two lately.

  I'm calling them today to tell them to come and take it out as their stuff is horrible. They won't do it, but I'm going to fight them.

• IKEA: Meanwhile, we tried to put this dresser together and very carefully followed the instructions. When we tried to install one particular board the dowel pin was in the wrong spot. We went back and found one page shows to put it in one hole and another page in the other hole. So, we followed the latter and got it installed. But then we realized that the inside drawer rails are lower than the outside drawer rails. We went back and checked very carefully and it is installed correctly. But even if it was to be flipped the rails would be too low. The screw holes are in the wrong spot.

  I'm going to line the rails up with a piece of string and drill new holes - problem solved. But I have to call IKEA since they shorted us one of the cam locks, and I'll tell them about the mistakes. However, I'm certain they'll not change anything. And I'm also certain I'm done with IKEA.

I could have been working on the truck instead of fighting all of these problems!

[Machspeed]

Actually, it is probably the culmination of several things:

• AT&T: I fought for 18 months to get them to give me internet via fiber. Seven times I ordered it, and three of those times they gave me a date when the tech would come, and he didn't and no one called. And when I called they said it isn't available at my address - even though my neighbors have it. Finally they sent me a letter saying that fiber is available at my address, and when I called and they said it isn't I told them they'd better escalate as I have a letter from them saying it isn't. So if it isn't then I have them dead to rights in a false advertising law suit. They finally figured out that it is available and sent a guy to install it.

  When he got here he ran it across the creek and through several neighbors yards and said they'd be back to bury it in a few days. Two hours later a neighbor was mowing and cut it. They came the next day and repaired it, but then last Saturday it was mown again. Meanwhile they littered the yards with flags for the utilities, meaning I shouldn't mow, and haven't been back - three weeks later.

  Plus, they promised a $300 gift card that has not come.

• ADT: Because we got AT&T fiber we had a significant discount to go with ADT for a security system. We did, but one of the two garage door openers was bad out of the box, and they had to come out a couple of days later and install a new one. Meanwhile the alarm triggered while we were at church and it was an interior motion sensor, which couldn't go off if no door sensor had tripped as no one was in the house. Turns out it went bad.

  Then the other garage door sensor went bad and when I called a week ago today they said they'd send someone - and haven't. Plus the yard light goes offline with every storm - and we've had one or two lately.

  I'm calling them today to tell them to come and take it out as their stuff is horrible. They won't do it, but I'm going to fight them.

• IKEA: Meanwhile, we tried to put this dresser together and very carefully followed the instructions. When we tried to install one particular board the dowel pin was in the wrong spot. We went back and found one page shows to put it in one hole and another page in the other hole. So, we followed the latter and got it installed. But then we realized that the inside drawer rails are lower than the outside drawer rails. We went back and checked very carefully and it is installed correctly. But even if it was to be flipped the rails would be too low. The screw holes are in the wrong spot.

  I'm going to line the rails up with a piece of string and drill new holes - problem solved. But I have to call IKEA since they shorted us one of the cam locks, and I'll tell them about the mistakes. However, I'm certain they'll not change anything. And I'm also certain I'm done with IKEA.

I could have been working on the truck instead of fighting all of these problems!

For sure, that's a bad set of circumstances dumped on you all at once.

I had a security company monitoring my property for years, paying monthly fees and dealing with some issues. Eventually, I went with a system off Amazon (Blink) and it has been great! I have a handful of friends whom I've also sold them on, and they all like it as well. The system is totally wireless and has worked flawlessly for me for several years now. I pay no fees! Alerts, with video, come straight to my phone. I think there may be a small fee now, not sure. There are other systems out there that may be better, but I'm done with those home monitoring places.

Hope today brings a better day for ya!

[85lebaront2]

Actually, it is probably the culmination of several things:

• AT&T: I fought for 18 months to get them to give me internet via fiber. Seven times I ordered it, and three of those times they gave me a date when the tech would come, and he didn't and no one called. And when I called they said it isn't available at my address - even though my neighbors have it. Finally they sent me a letter saying that fiber is available at my address, and when I called and they said it isn't I told them they'd better escalate as I have a letter from them saying it isn't. So if it isn't then I have them dead to rights in a false advertising law suit. They finally figured out that it is available and sent a guy to install it.

  When he got here he ran it across the creek and through several neighbors yards and said they'd be back to bury it in a few days. Two hours later a neighbor was mowing and cut it. They came the next day and repaired it, but then last Saturday it was mown again. Meanwhile they littered the yards with flags for the utilities, meaning I shouldn't mow, and haven't been back - three weeks later.

  Plus, they promised a $300 gift card that has not come.

• ADT: Because we got AT&T fiber we had a significant discount to go with ADT for a security system. We did, but one of the two garage door openers was bad out of the box, and they had to come out a couple of days later and install a new one. Meanwhile the alarm triggered while we were at church and it was an interior motion sensor, which couldn't go off if no door sensor had tripped as no one was in the house. Turns out it went bad.

  Then the other garage door sensor went bad and when I called a week ago today they said they'd send someone - and haven't. Plus the yard light goes offline with every storm - and we've had one or two lately.

  I'm calling them today to tell them to come and take it out as their stuff is horrible. They won't do it, but I'm going to fight them.

• IKEA: Meanwhile, we tried to put this dresser together and very carefully followed the instructions. When we tried to install one particular board the dowel pin was in the wrong spot. We went back and found one page shows to put it in one hole and another page in the other hole. So, we followed the latter and got it installed. But then we realized that the inside drawer rails are lower than the outside drawer rails. We went back and checked very carefully and it is installed correctly. But even if it was to be flipped the rails would be too low. The screw holes are in the wrong spot.

  I'm going to line the rails up with a piece of string and drill new holes - problem solved. But I have to call IKEA since they shorted us one of the cam locks, and I'll tell them about the mistakes. However, I'm certain they'll not change anything. And I'm also certain I'm done with IKEA.

I could have been working on the truck instead of fighting all of these problems!

Gary, you're making me feel bad, here on Virginia's appendix, I have Fiber to the home from Eastern Shore of Virginia Broadband Authority. Since they are a government agency, there are no taxes and speeds are phenomenal, of course I am probably less than a mile from their headquarters on US 13 in Exmore.

AT&T, we are looking to change our TV service to one Mary wants for a couple of women who were on Hallmark Channel and changed to one that Spectrum doesn't carry. This means either paying a lot more for phone or switching to another for landline as cell service is marginal here. AT&T looked to have the best package for landline service as Verizon is planning on ditching wired phone service.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, you're making me feel bad, here on Virginia's appendix, I have Fiber to the home from Eastern Shore of Virginia Broadband Authority. Since they are a government agency, there are no taxes and speeds are phenomenal, of course I am probably less than a mile from their headquarters on US 13 in Exmore.

AT&T, we are looking to change our TV service to one Mary wants for a couple of women who were on Hallmark Channel and changed to one that Spectrum doesn't carry. This means either paying a lot more for phone or switching to another for landline as cell service is marginal here. AT&T looked to have the best package for landline service as Verizon is planning on ditching wired phone service.

Well, things are looking up. We are almost done with the dresser, and the security system guy was out and seems to have fixed it - again. Hopefully it stays that way. (But one of the systems w/o a monthly charge would be nice.)

And, a guy in the EFIDynoTuning forum gave me a link to this page which has "strategy" documents for several EEC's. I've been perusing the one for LHBH1 and it is quite interesting. And long - 892 pages. I think that one is bank-fire but MAF, so isn't completely accurate for our systems, Bill, but it is interesting reading nonetheless and explains how a bunch of the calculations are done. And, it says "FoMoCo, PROPRIETARY & CONFIDENTIAL".

However, it still doesn't map BE-speak to Ford-speak or Decipha-speak, so I'm not quite ready to start doing the idle air flow work that I think is needed. But maybe I can get there by comparing Decipha's descriptions to those in BE. We shall see.

[Machspeed]

Well, things are looking up. We are almost done with the dresser, and the security system guy was out and seems to have fixed it - again. Hopefully it stays that way. (But one of the systems w/o a monthly charge would be nice.)

And, a guy in the EFIDynoTuning forum gave me a link to this page which has "strategy" documents for several EEC's. I've been perusing the one for LHBH1 and it is quite interesting. And long - 892 pages. I think that one is bank-fire but MAF, so isn't completely accurate for our systems, Bill, but it is interesting reading nonetheless and explains how a bunch of the calculations are done. And, it says "FoMoCo, PROPRIETARY & CONFIDENTIAL".

However, it still doesn't map BE-speak to Ford-speak or Decipha-speak, so I'm not quite ready to start doing the idle air flow work that I think is needed. But maybe I can get there by comparing Decipha's descriptions to those in BE. We shall see.

So let me share this with you, from yesterday. Thought about you and your frustrations!

Recall I have a lathe with a leaking gearbox. The machine has leaked like an old Harley Davidson since new. Several years back, I pulled the cover on the gearbox and sealed it with some high quality Permatex oil resistant sealer, only to find the next day that it still leaked.

A couple weeks ago, I decided it was finally time to really fix that sucker. I suspected it was leaking not only out of the gearbox faceplate but also out of the sight glass. I ordered up a 3/4" NPT sight glass and some Permatex 82180. Yesterday morning got up, pressed out the old sight glass, drilled and tapped the hole and meticulously sealed the gearbox face plate. As I was carrying the gearbox over to the lathe, I noted that I had forgotten to install the gear selector assembly before putting the cover back on. I hope none of my neighbors were anywhere near my property yesterday morning. They might have heard me yelling at myself, thinking there was a crazy man locked up in my shop. It was raining.....think I'm safe!