Big Blue's Transformation

[Nothing Special]

Got the compressor out, the carpet in, and the compressor back in. Easier said than done as finding the screw holes through the carpet took some time.

Then I got the control panel installed. As you can see, it is bolted to the strut mount on the top, but that wasn't solid enough for me so I bent a piece of stainless sheet metal "angle" to serve as support at the bottom. There's plenty of tension on the angle to keep it in place, but I added rubber between it and the toolbox to ensure there's no abrasion. And that piece not only gave plenty of rigidity to the control panel, it made the strut mount a lot more solid.

And the term "solid" brings me to a question. In the pic below you can see that the compressor is mounted on rubber isolators. They are the ones it came with from the factory, so I screwed them down to the floor of the toolbox. But you can also see a piece of copper tubing in the pic. That's the original connection from the compressor to the tank. However, the tank was welded to the frame of the unit and the compressor's isolators were mounted to that frame. So the compressor was free to vibrate on its mounts, but the tank wasn't, and yet the two were connected with copper tubing.

Back in January of 2020 we had a discussion about copper tubing, coolers, air hose, etc. And the feeling at that time was that I shouldn't use copper tubing to connect things if they can move with respect to each other. And yet the factory did.

What I'm thinking of doing is to use 3/8" flexible copper tubing to make the connection from the compressor to the manifold, but coil several feet of it up and use it as a cooler. I could put the coils at the air inlet to the compressor so air would get drawn over them. And the extra length would tend to allow flex w/o breaking the tubing.

Thoughts?

"Thoughts", not knowledge...

While coiled copper wouldn't get pulled on hard as things move, it will just vibrate a lot (unless it's restrained somehow). Will that vibration lead to work hardening and cracks? I don't know, it's just a thought.

Another thought, as the air cools down the water will condense out. Where will that water collect? If there are coils it will collect at the bottom of the loops. A lot will get blown through, but it might just tend to stay wet. Does that matter? I don't know.

Then again, if the tubing is looped around a vertical axis (like a water slide) the condensate will run down to the bottom (wherever that is). If that's a good collection point with a drain you've also added a dryer!

Another thought... If it were me I think I'd keep the copper tubing between the compressor and the tank as short as reasonably possible, with something (maybe a bit of an "S" bend?) to keep it from getting jerked around. I'd try to let the condensate run into the tank and I'd pretend that I was going to drain the tank every so often (that actually ends up being once every couple of years for the air tank on my Bronco ). I'd also try to connect the air line from the tank in a way that the air wouldn't tend to go directly from the compressor to wherever I was using air. Let it swirl around in the tank a bit to try to let more of the water stay in the tank. I don't know that it would give dry enough air to sandblast or paint with, but it would be pretty good for most things I'd use a vehicle-mounted compressor for.

[Gary Lewis]

"Thoughts", not knowledge...

While coiled copper wouldn't get pulled on hard as things move, it will just vibrate a lot (unless it's restrained somehow). Will that vibration lead to work hardening and cracks? I don't know, it's just a thought.

Another thought, as the air cools down the water will condense out. Where will that water collect? If there are coils it will collect at the bottom of the loops. A lot will get blown through, but it might just tend to stay wet. Does that matter? I don't know.

Then again, if the tubing is looped around a vertical axis (like a water slide) the condensate will run down to the bottom (wherever that is). If that's a good collection point with a drain you've also added a dryer!

Another thought... If it were me I think I'd keep the copper tubing between the compressor and the tank as short as reasonably possible, with something (maybe a bit of an "S" bend?) to keep it from getting jerked around. I'd try to let the condensate run into the tank and I'd pretend that I was going to drain the tank every so often (that actually ends up being once every couple of years for the air tank on my Bronco ). I'd also try to connect the air line from the tank in a way that the air wouldn't tend to go directly from the compressor to wherever I was using air. Let it swirl around in the tank a bit to try to let more of the water stay in the tank. I don't know that it would give dry enough air to sandblast or paint with, but it would be pretty good for most things I'd use a vehicle-mounted compressor for.

Thanks, Bob.

One problem is that unless I put a hole in the side of the compressor's cover the copper tubing needs to go down to the bottom of the cover and then up. So that means any water that condenses there stays there unless it gets blown out. However, the low point is only ~8" out of the port, so there may not be much condensation there.

And yes, unless a coil is constrained it'll vibrate. I've gone through in my head how to constrain it, and if I do that then the advantage of having a long run over which to handle any movement is nullified.

So perhaps the manufacturer knows best and I can go down to the bottom and then up to the manifold, which may be an 18" run. That's pretty much what they did, although they went to the tank instead of the manifold first.

But to have the air to the disconnects come from the tank would be a pain. I'd have to run the copper a ways to handle the heat, and then somehow convert to hose to go to the tank - through the side of the toolbox and the side of the bed. And then come back from the tank through the side of the bed and through the toolbox.

So I really would like to go from the compressor to the manifold on the control panel, which includes the gauges, regulator, and disconnects, and from there on to the tank. That lets me have a positive termination point for the copper tubing, and a place for the hose to start. And with the tank being the low spot hopefully it'll capture the condensation.

Does that seem workable? Not optimal, but workable?

[Nothing Special]

Thanks, Bob.

One problem is that unless I put a hole in the side of the compressor's cover the copper tubing needs to go down to the bottom of the cover and then up. So that means any water that condenses there stays there unless it gets blown out. However, the low point is only ~8" out of the port, so there may not be much condensation there.

And yes, unless a coil is constrained it'll vibrate. I've gone through in my head how to constrain it, and if I do that then the advantage of having a long run over which to handle any movement is nullified.

So perhaps the manufacturer knows best and I can go down to the bottom and then up to the manifold, which may be an 18" run. That's pretty much what they did, although they went to the tank instead of the manifold first.

But to have the air to the disconnects come from the tank would be a pain. I'd have to run the copper a ways to handle the heat, and then somehow convert to hose to go to the tank - through the side of the toolbox and the side of the bed. And then come back from the tank through the side of the bed and through the toolbox.

So I really would like to go from the compressor to the manifold on the control panel, which includes the gauges, regulator, and disconnects, and from there on to the tank. That lets me have a positive termination point for the copper tubing, and a place for the hose to start. And with the tank being the low spot hopefully it'll capture the condensation.

Does that seem workable? Not optimal, but workable?

The tank on my home compressor sprung a leak a long time ago (did I mention I'm not good about draining air tanks?) so I mounted the compressor to a board and plumbed in a separate tank. Now I have a setup similar to what you are talking about, where the tank is not in the air flow path between the compressor and where the air is used, but is T'd off to the side. The result of this is that when the compressor is running to bring the system back up to pressure I get a LOT of condensate coming out my working line. It really shows up in the exhaust of air tools.

So workable? Definitely. I've been working with it for a long time. Optimal? Definitely not with all the water I get.

Of course how you have it plumbed will make a difference. In my case the connection is an actual T shape, with te air coming in horizontally on one side of the T and going out to the working line horizontaly directly across from the inlet, with the line to the air tank going down from the T. So for water to go to the tank it needs to turn 90 degrees (down at least) and it would rather go straight across. If you make the air turn to go to work and straight to the tank it won't be as bad as what I have.

[Gary Lewis]

The tank on my home compressor sprung a leak a long time ago (did I mention I'm not good about draining air tanks?) so I mounted the compressor to a board and plumbed in a separate tank. Now I have a setup similar to what you are talking about, where the tank is not in the air flow path between the compressor and where the air is used, but is T'd off to the side. The result of this is that when the compressor is running to bring the system back up to pressure I get a LOT of condensate coming out my working line. It really shows up in the exhaust of air tools.

So workable? Definitely. I've been working with it for a long time. Optimal? Definitely not with all the water I get.

Of course how you have it plumbed will make a difference. In my case the connection is an actual T shape, with te air coming in horizontally on one side of the T and going out to the working line horizontaly directly across from the inlet, with the line to the air tank going down from the T. So for water to go to the tank it needs to turn 90 degrees (down at least) and it would rather go straight across. If you make the air turn to go to work and straight to the tank it won't be as bad as what I have.

Thanks, Bob. That helps.

I don't like the idea of a LOT of condensate going into my tires. But, in looking at portable air compressors, like in this article in Overland Journal, most of the low-end systems they tested are just compressors w/o tanks. So apparently it will work that way, although obviously not ideally.

So what I'm thinking is that if I can find a way to cool the output enough so it won't fry a hose then I'd like to go from the compressor to the tank and then back to the manifold with its outlets. And here are a couple of thoughts of how to cool the air:

• Copper Tubing: I could bend copper tubing into a series of loops and attach it to the tool box - as shown, horribly, in the the pic below. The air from the compressor and the aluminum of the tool box will cool the air, and at the bottom of the loops I'd put a compression fitting to hose barb connection and run hose down to the tank. That way the tank is the low spot and the condensation will naturally run down to it. Then hose back up to the manifold.

• Cooler: If I found a thin high-pressure cooler I could go from the copper tubing into it, put it on the front/right wall of the tool box, and then come from it into hose and go down to the tank. But I have to figure out how to go from copper tubing to it, and then from it to hose.

I'm leaning to just using copper tubing as it looks easy and effective. Easy because I have to buy copper tubing to come from the compressor as the existing piece isn't long enough, so why not just use it to make the "cooler"? And effective as it'll have more length than a proper cooler and be in contact with the aluminum of the tool box.

Thoughts?

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Bob. That helps.

I don't like the idea of a LOT of condensate going into my tires. But, in looking at portable air compressors, like in this article in Overland Journal, most of the low-end systems they tested are just compressors w/o tanks. So apparently it will work that way, although obviously not ideally.

So what I'm thinking is that if I can find a way to cool the output enough so it won't fry a hose then I'd like to go from the compressor to the tank and then back to the manifold with its outlets. And here are a couple of thoughts of how to cool the air:

• Copper Tubing: I could bend copper tubing into a series of loops and attach it to the tool box - as shown, horribly, in the the pic below. The air from the compressor and the aluminum of the tool box will cool the air, and at the bottom of the loops I'd put a compression fitting to hose barb connection and run hose down to the tank. That way the tank is the low spot and the condensation will naturally run down to it. Then hose back up to the manifold.

• Cooler: If I found a thin high-pressure cooler I could go from the copper tubing into it, put it on the front/right wall of the tool box, and then come from it into hose and go down to the tank. But I have to figure out how to go from copper tubing to it, and then from it to hose.

I'm leaning to just using copper tubing as it looks easy and effective. Easy because I have to buy copper tubing to come from the compressor as the existing piece isn't long enough, so why not just use it to make the "cooler"? And effective as it'll have more length than a proper cooler and be in contact with the aluminum of the tool box.

Thoughts?

Figured out how to install the tank. I cut a bunch of the "frame" off, and cut 1" angle to fit across the remainder, as shown below. I'll weld them on tomorrow and they'll be bolted to the frame.

And here's where it goes:

[Bruce moose4x4]

Figured out how to install the tank. I cut a bunch of the "frame" off, and cut 1" angle to fit across the remainder, as shown below. I'll weld them on tomorrow and they'll be bolted to the frame.

And here's where it goes:

Here is a drain that is pretty easy to use. If you can remember to pull it more than every couple of years.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/brakebest-hd/brakebest-hd-drain-valve/bbh2/rb032082/v/a/25918/automotive-truck-2006-chevrolet-c5500-kodiak?q=rb032082&pos=0

[Gary Lewis]

Here is a drain that is pretty easy to use. If you can remember to pull it more than every couple of years.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/brakebest-hd/brakebest-hd-drain-valve/bbh2/rb032082/v/a/25918/automotive-truck-2006-chevrolet-c5500-kodiak?q=rb032082&pos=0

Thanks, Bruce. Does that valve stay open until the pressure bleeds off and then closes? Or, what causes it to close?

I have a ball valve that goes in the fitting on the bottom for draining the tank. I'm thinking of using a 90 and aiming the valve under the truck. That will keep the valve better protected by the tubes, and it will keep the water coming out of the tank from spraying me.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Bruce. Does that valve stay open until the pressure bleeds off and then closes? Or, what causes it to close?

I have a ball valve that goes in the fitting on the bottom for draining the tank. I'm thinking of using a 90 and aiming the valve under the truck. That will keep the valve better protected by the tubes, and it will keep the water coming out of the tank from spraying me.

The plans are coming together. Talked to Derale this morning about their #13309 power steering cooler. It is rated for 250 psi working pressure and 300 burst pressure, so is quite adequate for the 200 psi max this system will see. And it measures 8 1/8" wide, inc fittings, 5 1/4" high, and 3/4" thick.

Unfortunately they don't have a similar one with NPT fittings, so I'll have to use AN/NPT conversion fittings. But the cooler is supposed to be here tomorrow from Amazon.

As for where it goes, I put the case on and powered the compressor up and found that the flow is left-right in this picture. In fact, there's a good stream of air out of the bottom rear end of the compressor from the opening you can see, which is 5" high and 6" wide.

So I'll mount the cooler roughly as shown below. It'll be mounted to the front wall of the toolbox with standoffs that put it pretty close to the compressor. And I'll use some of the padded rubber clamps so it can move a bit to take as much stress out of the copper tubing as possible.

Speaking of the copper tubing, it'll go in at the top and the hose to the tank will come off at the bottom. That way any moisture that condenses will be pushed downhill to the tank.

Speaking of the tank, I got the welding done and the paint is now drying on it. Hope to get it mounted this afternoon, with pics of that to follow.

[Gary Lewis]

The plans are coming together. Talked to Derale this morning about their #13309 power steering cooler. It is rated for 250 psi working pressure and 300 burst pressure, so is quite adequate for the 200 psi max this system will see. And it measures 8 1/8" wide, inc fittings, 5 1/4" high, and 3/4" thick.

Unfortunately they don't have a similar one with NPT fittings, so I'll have to use AN/NPT conversion fittings. But the cooler is supposed to be here tomorrow from Amazon.

As for where it goes, I put the case on and powered the compressor up and found that the flow is left-right in this picture. In fact, there's a good stream of air out of the bottom rear end of the compressor from the opening you can see, which is 5" high and 6" wide.

So I'll mount the cooler roughly as shown below. It'll be mounted to the front wall of the toolbox with standoffs that put it pretty close to the compressor. And I'll use some of the padded rubber clamps so it can move a bit to take as much stress out of the copper tubing as possible.

Speaking of the copper tubing, it'll go in at the top and the hose to the tank will come off at the bottom. That way any moisture that condenses will be pushed downhill to the tank.

Speaking of the tank, I got the welding done and the paint is now drying on it. Hope to get it mounted this afternoon, with pics of that to follow.

Got the frame drilled to take the tank, and the tank trial fitted. But still have work to do on it.

But first, here's the tank with the angle welded on and painted:

And here's the tank bolted in. One thing to note here is that while the bottom of the tank is basically even with the bottom of the frame, the tubing hangs down 2". However, the bottom of the tubing is even with the bottom of the nearest muffler. And it is 2" higher than the bottom of the front step bar mount, and 1" higher than the bottom of the rear mount which you can see in the pic.

Here's a view from a position that is level with the bottom edge of the bed, which is even with the bottom of the tank, but the tubes hang down a bit more.

Last, I think I'm going to weld a piece of angle between the two tubes at the bottom to protect the drain valve. I remember an article that a Facebook friend wrote about an overlanding trip that she and her husband took a couple of years ago, during which a rock hit the drain valve on their air tank, breaking the valve. But a piece of angle where the framing square is would give a lot of protection, assuming I can still get the valve out with the angle in place.

Oh, and the ends of the tubing that you see in the pics will be plugged. The ID of the tubing is 7/8" so my 1" plugs won't fit. But the smaller set I've ordered has some 7/8" plugs so we'll be good.

[Gary Lewis]

Got the frame drilled to take the tank, and the tank trial fitted. But still have work to do on it.

But first, here's the tank with the angle welded on and painted:

And here's the tank bolted in. One thing to note here is that while the bottom of the tank is basically even with the bottom of the frame, the tubing hangs down 2". However, the bottom of the tubing is even with the bottom of the nearest muffler. And it is 2" higher than the bottom of the front step bar mount, and 1" higher than the bottom of the rear mount which you can see in the pic.

Here's a view from a position that is level with the bottom edge of the bed, which is even with the bottom of the tank, but the tubes hang down a bit more.

Last, I think I'm going to weld a piece of angle between the two tubes at the bottom to protect the drain valve. I remember an article that a Facebook friend wrote about an overlanding trip that she and her husband took a couple of years ago, during which a rock hit the drain valve on their air tank, breaking the valve. But a piece of angle where the framing square is would give a lot of protection, assuming I can still get the valve out with the angle in place.

Oh, and the ends of the tubing that you see in the pics will be plugged. The ID of the tubing is 7/8" so my 1" plugs won't fit. But the smaller set I've ordered has some 7/8" plugs so we'll be good.

I posted in Silence The SuperDuty Springs! about the installation of the clips/restraints that I got from Eaton as well as the new rear slider pads for the springs. But here are a couple of pics. First is the new front clip/restraint:

And then a pic of the rear slider 'cause the ones that had been on those springs at some point were totally gone. Like non-existent, which was surely part of the clatter I was getting.

Last, I added a piece of angle to protect the drain valve. And yes, the valve can both be operated as well as removed with the angle on there. In fact, I put the valve on after welding the angle on.