Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Vacuum tank on the side of the bricknose casing, beats the "coffee can" as far as rusting out goes. I went all the way to a 1996 system as the evaporator core is taller and thicker and the 1994 up condenser is a multipass unit.

Bill - Please don't miss the question about the ability to put the serpentine pulley/clutch from the FS10 on an FS6. Do you know? If so, I could make a bracket to put the '85 system back on.

As for the vacuum reservoir, that's cool! I could use the ball that's on there for HVAC and the reservoir on the housing for speed control, or vice versa.

But on the condensor, perhaps Huck's is "multi-pass"? It has two sets of larger tubes instead of the one set of smaller tubes the '85 system has. But I didn't measure height. Will do so in a bit.

[85lebaront2]

Bill - Please don't miss the question about the ability to put the serpentine pulley/clutch from the FS10 on an FS6. Do you know? If so, I could make a bracket to put the '85 system back on.

As for the vacuum reservoir, that's cool! I could use the ball that's on there for HVAC and the reservoir on the housing for speed control, or vice versa.

But on the condensor, perhaps Huck's is "multi-pass"? It has two sets of larger tubes instead of the one set of smaller tubes the '85 system has. But I didn't measure height. Will do so in a bit.

I didn't address it because I don't know if it is the same. I don't know if there is anyplace you can find drawings and dimensions of the compressor nose and shaft. I also don't know if the FS6 ever had a polygroove pulley.

You might look at Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis/Town Car 302 applications, 4 seasons has a lot of the information in their on-line catalog.

I just was talking with the local automotive AC shop here in town. He said he would go with the FS10 for durability/reliability reasons.

[salans7]

I didn't address it because I don't know if it is the same. I don't know if there is anyplace you can find drawings and dimensions of the compressor nose and shaft. I also don't know if the FS6 ever had a polygroove pulley.

You might look at Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis/Town Car 302 applications, 4 seasons has a lot of the information in their on-line catalog.

I just was talking with the local automotive AC shop here in town. He said he would go with the FS10 for durability/reliability reasons.

I've seen FS6 compressors with polygroove pulleys, but what they fit, I cannot say, and whether the pulley swaps between FS6 and FS10, I also cannot say.

[Gary Lewis]

I've seen FS6 compressors with polygroove pulleys, but what they fit, I cannot say, and whether the pulley swaps between FS6 and FS10, I also cannot say.

Ok guys, a bit of study on the Rock Auto site shows that they say there were FS6 compressors with multi-groove pulleys in 1985. But a bit more study shows that none of those pulleys are used on FS10 compressors.

Given that I looked at the clutches with an eye to removing them to see if they would swap. And I quickly discovered an error in the '85 FSM. As I'll explain in the Merry Christmas thread, I put the FSM sections for the HVAC systems on the web site, and then looked at the way they say to remove the clutch. And that is way wrong for the clutch that's on BB's compressor.

The TSM says that you lock the clutch, remove the nut, and then insert a 5/8-11 bolt. Well, the threads are more like M24x20. In other words, a 1" bolt is about the right size, but the thread pitch is M20. And I don't have anything nearly that big.

Then I looked at the clutch on Huck's FS10 and how to remove it isn't intuitively obvious to the casual observer.

Given that, I'm strongly leaning to going with an FS10. But I think I'll call around to see if there is anyone locally that can test Huck's compressor. Perhaps it is ok.

Anyway, here's what the two clutches look like, with Big Blue's on the left with the nut removed, and Huck's on the right:

[salans7]

Ok guys, a bit of study on the Rock Auto site shows that they say there were FS6 compressors with multi-groove pulleys in 1985. But a bit more study shows that none of those pulleys are used on FS10 compressors.

Given that I looked at the clutches with an eye to removing them to see if they would swap. And I quickly discovered an error in the '85 FSM. As I'll explain in the Merry Christmas thread, I put the FSM sections for the HVAC systems on the web site, and then looked at the way they say to remove the clutch. And that is way wrong for the clutch that's on BB's compressor.

The TSM says that you lock the clutch, remove the nut, and then insert a 5/8-11 bolt. Well, the threads are more like M24x20. In other words, a 1" bolt is about the right size, but the thread pitch is M20. And I don't have anything nearly that big.

Then I looked at the clutch on Huck's FS10 and how to remove it isn't intuitively obvious to the casual observer.

Given that, I'm strongly leaning to going with an FS10. But I think I'll call around to see if there is anyone locally that can test Huck's compressor. Perhaps it is ok.

Anyway, here's what the two clutches look like, with Big Blue's on the left with the nut removed, and Huck's on the right:

Bill and I say FS10 so you're outnumbered. Just have Huck's compressor tested and "huck" the FS6 in the parts pile.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill and I say FS10 so you're outnumbered. Just have Huck's compressor tested and "huck" the FS6 in the parts pile.

I'd say let's wait to see what others say, but I'm pretty much with you already.

But I forgot to ask if Huck's condenser is what Bill call's "multi-pass". Here it is on the right, with Big Blue's on the left. It looks to me like BB's makes one pass down the condenser through those itty bitty tubes, where Huck's makes two passes through much larger tubes. Larger tubes have a larger surface area, so better cooling. Two passes mean - better cooling.

[85lebaront2]

I'd say let's wait to see what others say, but I'm pretty much with you already.

But I forgot to ask if Huck's condenser is what Bill call's "multi-pass". Here it is on the right, with Big Blue's on the left. It looks to me like BB's makes one pass down the condenser through those itty bitty tubes, where Huck's makes two passes through much larger tubes. Larger tubes have a larger surface area, so better cooling. Two passes mean - better cooling.

Gary, according to what Matt told me, the multi-pass has smaller tubes inside the big ones somehow exposing more surface area for cooling He got me one for a 1994-96/7 truck, I can hang meat in Darth's cab in mid summer here, and when I am doing that, there is enough condensation running out of the bottom that I have actually thought I had a heater core going from the flow.

[Gary Lewis]

Gary, according to what Matt told me, the multi-pass has smaller tubes inside the big ones somehow exposing more surface area for cooling He got me one for a 1994-96/7 truck, I can hang meat in Darth's cab in mid summer here, and when I am doing that, there is enough condensation running out of the bottom that I have actually thought I had a heater core going from the flow.

According to Rock Auto:

• 1990: Takes either a APDI/PRO 7013605 or GPD 3605C, which use #8 o-rings for both inlet and outlet

• 1996: Takes: OSC 4531, APDI/PRO 7014531, CSF 10891, GPD 4531C, or UAC CN4531PFC Parallel Flow, which use #8 o-rings on the inlet and #6 on the outlet.

So the '96 condenser won't work with the hoses I have.

 

[Gary Lewis]

According to Rock Auto:

• 1990: Takes either a APDI/PRO 7013605 or GPD 3605C, which use #8 o-rings for both inlet and outlet

• 1996: Takes: OSC 4531, APDI/PRO 7014531, CSF 10891, GPD 4531C, or UAC CN4531PFC Parallel Flow, which use #8 o-rings on the inlet and #6 on the outlet.

So the '96 condenser won't work with the hoses I have.

Ok, time for an update. First, the bolt size to hold a compressor to a 1990 F-Series C-II bracket is different than for an E-Series Saginaw bracket. The C-II bracket takes M8x1.25 bolts, and the Saginaw bracket takes M10x1.50 bolts. Further, the M10's won't pass through the FS10 pump I have, although it wouldn't take much reaming to make them fit.

So I see two approaches:

1. Ream the compressor I have from the .345" it now has to .390" of the M10 bolts

2. Make adapters to bring the M10 size down to accept the M8 bolts

I like approach #2 best as it is a one-time fix and let's me tell my offspring that the A/C system is from a 1990 F250. That way they'll be able to replace the compressor if/when the time comes w/o reaming it. So I'm going to see if these 4.8 bolts M10 bolts are easily drilled and tapped and will report back.

But wait, there's more! Talked to my brother, who agrees with all of us that the 1990 system is the way to go. However, he suggested I talk to his son who has done a bunch of A/C work. I did and he said he'd bet that the compressor is fine. So he recommended that I put the system together and bring it to him - along with a new receiver/drier and oriface. He'll flush it, replace all the o-rings, which he has, pull a vacuum, and charge it. We'll then see if the compressor is good and, if not, recover the "freon", replace the compressor and go again.

Back in a bit with news on the adapters......

 

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, time for an update. First, the bolt size to hold a compressor to a 1990 F-Series C-II bracket is different than for an E-Series Saginaw bracket. The C-II bracket takes M8x1.25 bolts, and the Saginaw bracket takes M10x1.50 bolts. Further, the M10's won't pass through the FS10 pump I have, although it wouldn't take much reaming to make them fit.

So I see two approaches:

1. Ream the compressor I have from the .345" it now has to .390" of the M10 bolts

2. Make adapters to bring the M10 size down to accept the M8 bolts

I like approach #2 best as it is a one-time fix and let's me tell my offspring that the A/C system is from a 1990 F250. That way they'll be able to replace the compressor if/when the time comes w/o reaming it. So I'm going to see if these 4.8 bolts M10 bolts are easily drilled and tapped and will report back.

But wait, there's more! Talked to my brother, who agrees with all of us that the 1990 system is the way to go. However, he suggested I talk to his son who has done a bunch of A/C work. I did and he said he'd bet that the compressor is fine. So he recommended that I put the system together and bring it to him - along with a new receiver/drier and oriface. He'll flush it, replace all the o-rings, which he has, pull a vacuum, and charge it. We'll then see if the compressor is good and, if not, recover the "freon", replace the compressor and go again.

Back in a bit with news on the adapters......

Ok, got some of the adapters made. I say "some" because I'm not sure how many of them are salvageable. One is installed with blue Loctite and it stayed. Anther was installed with blue but it backed out with the 8mm bolt I used to install it and won't come off the bolt. Yet another is stuck in the 10mm die and is probably a write-off.

But, a fourth one was successfully installed with red Loctite using a wooden pencil to drive it. The pencil threaded in fairly well to the 8mm threads and then backed out nicely after the Loctite set up. So I'm happy with it as well as the other that stayed with blue Loctite.

And here's the compressor installed with two of the bolts tightened down. Hopefully tomorrow I can make two more adapters and get them installed and move on.