Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Regarding the belt theory, Gary, I found this: [food for thought?]

http://updateinternational.com/Book/VibrationBook13a.htm

Practical Solutions to Machinery and Maintenance Vibration Problems

Chapter 13, Additional Vibration Sources

Section 1, Vibration Due to Pulleys/Sheaves and Drive Belts

Sometimes the length and tension on a drive belt results in a resonance within the belt whereby it acts like a resonant string. The resonance mode shape usually can be seen with a strobe after putting a chalk mark along the edge of the belt and watching it while vibrating. The belt will appear to vibrate in a mode shape typical for a specific resonance (most often, the 1st resonance mode, but for very long belts, the 2nd resonance mode occasionally occurs). This is not to be confused with vibration due to an unbalanced belt.

Almost all variations of shaft-to-shaft pulley misalignments result in higher than usual axial vibration. Sometimes the primary frequency is at 2 x rpm, but more often it is at 1 x rpm. Multiple V belts with unequal tensions also cause a high axial vibration. Sometimes the rigidity of the support system prevents it from being measured or seen, but pulley/sheave misalignment very often causes excessive thrust bearing wear. Replacing with belts of equal tension will usually cure the problem. Multiple belts molded in one piece are supposed to prevent this problem but do not if the sheaves are misaligned.

Drive and driven pulleys with multiple or single belts should be in the same line of action or in the same plane. If not in the same plane through cocking of one sheave relative to the other, or if parallel but not in alignment, then excessive vibration results. Proper alignment in the same plane cures the problem. Make sure that the grooves are aligned rather than basing alignment on the sides of the pulley.

Although relatively rare, a poorly made belt can within itself be out of balance. This results in excessive vibration at the low frequency of 1 x rpm of the belt (not of the rotor).

Pulley/sheave eccentricity results in a vibration frequency of 1 x rpm of the eccentric pulley/sheave. However, it can be distinguished from an unbalanced rotor. For example, an unbalanced sheave will show the usual characteristic of relatively equal amplitudes in both the horizontal and vertical directions. However, an eccentric sheave will show its largest amplitude in the direction of the line connecting the drive and driven sheaves.

For an unbalanced sheave, readings taken at the same bearing in directions 90° to each other will show an approximate 90° phase relationship. However, for an eccentric sheave, phases measured at the same bearing in directions 90° to each other will show a phase relationship of either approximately 180° or 0°. This is similar to what is often seen due to coupling/shaft misalignment.

 

David - That's interesting! How'd you find that?

I think I'll try the suggestion of placing a "chalk mark along the edge of the belt and watching it while vibrating". That should tell me if there's a problem.

But, not today as it is drizzling and COLD. But I'll do it. Thanks!

[1986F150Six]

David - That's interesting! How'd you find that?

I think I'll try the suggestion of placing a "chalk mark along the edge of the belt and watching it while vibrating". That should tell me if there's a problem.

But, not today as it is drizzling and COLD. But I'll do it. Thanks!

Believe me when I say it is a gift!

I wish I could help regarding the electrical questions... I look forward to what the others with more knowledge of this type suggest!

 

[85lebaront2]

David - That's interesting! How'd you find that?

I think I'll try the suggestion of placing a "chalk mark along the edge of the belt and watching it while vibrating". That should tell me if there's a problem.

But, not today as it is drizzling and COLD. But I'll do it. Thanks!

I know about belt drone, one of the sources is the AC compressor as it is a cyclic load. I have watched the belts on the old 2 cyl York or Tecumseh ones actually look like they are trying to come off (if you want a really weird belt vibration, Chrysler V2 compressors are horrid due to the 90° - 270° rather than every 180°. Even the multi-cylinder ones like a Chrysler C171 or Ford FS6 can have a harmonic belt hum. My original T2K CAR would vibrate the AC belt into the motor mount reinforcement peculiar to the turbocharged engines.

My older stuff with the 429 engines and York/Tecumseh compressors had a harmonic balancer weight built into the pulley on the cars, my 390 truck engine didn't have it though.

3600 RPM, could part of it be header resonance? FWIW, Matt's 1965 Corsa, with headers was real bad at 4500 rpm which due to the gearing and tire size was right at 65 mph.

On the power point, if you do not leave the illuminated USB charger in it that shouldn't be a problem, if it is then change it to an accessory powered source. The Flexes have a bunch of them, many of which the key has to be in accessory or run for them to be live, same with the factory 110V AC outlet.

[Gary Lewis]

David - That's interesting! How'd you find that?

I think I'll try the suggestion of placing a "chalk mark along the edge of the belt and watching it while vibrating". That should tell me if there's a problem.

But, not today as it is drizzling and COLD. But I'll do it. Thanks!

Believe me when I say it is a gift!

I wish I could help regarding the electrical questions... I look forward to what the others with more knowledge of this type suggest!

Thanks, David. I appreciate you using your gift on my "issues". Not necessarily problems, but issues. (Since when is "wanting", as opposed to needing, a this or that a problem?)

As for what I did today, several things. First, I troubleshot the lack of fan on the heater. I guessed that I might have shorted something somewhere so I pulled the fuse to check it. Or, maybe I should say I attempted to pull the fuse, but it didn't want to come out. I enlisted a fuse puller and got it out, but it wasn't blown. However its connections were suspect. So I cleaned it and put it in my HF ammeter and plugged that into the fuse box and the blower came on. And, by the way, I discovered that the current the fan pulls varies by the function you set it on. Apparently some have more resistance to air flow than others.

Anyway, I pulled the fuse out, put a tiny bit of my favorite anti-seize on the connections, and put it back in the fuse box. Problem #1 solved - I hope.

Next I decided to track down the annoying screech we had yesterday whenever we leaned forward a bit. I guessed it had to do with the seatback latch, and sure enough it did. The inverter is pushing the seatback forward such that when you lean forward the seatback moves just a bit, sliding the latch on the bar on the seat bottom. I thought a bit about what to use to lube it w/o making a mess and then remembered what Dad always used for door strikers - Door Ease. Here's a pic of a "crayon" of it that I inherited from him. Problem #2 solved.

Then, having solved two problems, I thought it was time to play. And with the discussion of power points, chargers, etc I thought I'd put one of the ones I have in a spare ash tray and see what I thought. However, the hole in the ash tray measures .991" and the power points and chargers need a 1.125" hole.

My first thought was to try a hole saw. Yes, I knew in my heart that it wasn't the best idea I'd ever had, but with a bit of shimming and positioning I thought I had it secured quite well. But the instant the hole saw touched it there was chaos and this was the result:

Hmmm, I have some chassis punches.... Yep, I have a 1 1/8". And sure enough, after straightening up the mangled mess as best I could it punched through fairly well, although the ash tray is not something I want to use. So out came another spare, and here's a comparison of the two:

Now, I should admit that I drilled the rivets on both ash tray units to take the plastic door off of the metal ash tray. But that really isn't necessary when using the chassis punch so when I do the one on Big Blue I'll not drill the rivets out. However it works pretty well to use 8-32 screws to replace the rivets. I tapped the plastic door, drilled out the ash tray to let the screw slip through, and then backed the door up with a nut.

I'll include a number of pics below to show how I did that, but I did discover that the USB charger I have holds the door open slightly, as shown below where you can see the door hits the charger before hitting the stop. Given that, I'd really like to find a charger that fits in a 1 1/8" hole and has both USB-A & C ports. That way when the cords aren't connected the door will close properly.

I realize that going with a screw-in charger instead of a a plug-in one means it wouldn't be as easy to upgrade, but I don't think changing out the screw-in charger will be that big of a deal once I've added one the first time.

 

[kramttocs]

Thanks, David. I appreciate you using your gift on my "issues". Not necessarily problems, but issues. (Since when is "wanting", as opposed to needing, a this or that a problem?)

As for what I did today, several things. First, I troubleshot the lack of fan on the heater. I guessed that I might have shorted something somewhere so I pulled the fuse to check it. Or, maybe I should say I attempted to pull the fuse, but it didn't want to come out. I enlisted a fuse puller and got it out, but it wasn't blown. However its connections were suspect. So I cleaned it and put it in my HF ammeter and plugged that into the fuse box and the blower came on. And, by the way, I discovered that the current the fan pulls varies by the function you set it on. Apparently some have more resistance to air flow than others.

Anyway, I pulled the fuse out, put a tiny bit of my favorite anti-seize on the connections, and put it back in the fuse box. Problem #1 solved - I hope.

Next I decided to track down the annoying screech we had yesterday whenever we leaned forward a bit. I guessed it had to do with the seatback latch, and sure enough it did. The inverter is pushing the seatback forward such that when you lean forward the seatback moves just a bit, sliding the latch on the bar on the seat bottom. I thought a bit about what to use to lube it w/o making a mess and then remembered what Dad always used for door strikers - Door Ease. Here's a pic of a "crayon" of it that I inherited from him. Problem #2 solved.

Then, having solved two problems, I thought it was time to play. And with the discussion of power points, chargers, etc I thought I'd put one of the ones I have in a spare ash tray and see what I thought. However, the hole in the ash tray measures .991" and the power points and chargers need a 1.125" hole.

My first thought was to try a hole saw. Yes, I knew in my heart that it wasn't the best idea I'd ever had, but with a bit of shimming and positioning I thought I had it secured quite well. But the instant the hole saw touched it there was chaos and this was the result:

Hmmm, I have some chassis punches.... Yep, I have a 1 1/8". And sure enough, after straightening up the mangled mess as best I could it punched through fairly well, although the ash tray is not something I want to use. So out came another spare, and here's a comparison of the two:

Now, I should admit that I drilled the rivets on both ash tray units to take the plastic door off of the metal ash tray. But that really isn't necessary when using the chassis punch so when I do the one on Big Blue I'll not drill the rivets out. However it works pretty well to use 8-32 screws to replace the rivets. I tapped the plastic door, drilled out the ash tray to let the screw slip through, and then backed the door up with a nut.

I'll include a number of pics below to show how I did that, but I did discover that the USB charger I have holds the door open slightly, as shown below where you can see the door hits the charger before hitting the stop. Given that, I'd really like to find a charger that fits in a 1 1/8" hole and has both USB-A & C ports. That way when the cords aren't connected the door will close properly.

I realize that going with a screw-in charger instead of a a plug-in one means it wouldn't be as easy to upgrade, but I don't think changing out the screw-in charger will be that big of a deal once I've added one the first time.

Nice progress!

Sounds like a good use case for a step bit. Glad you had your fingers away when using the hole saw

I like the idea of replacing the rivets with screws (I went back with rivets after coating the metal) but will the metal tray fit in with the nuts or are you not putting it back in? Edit: oh, nevermind - I see you said you aren't drilling out the rivets on the "real" one so doesn't matter.

[Gary Lewis]

I know about belt drone, one of the sources is the AC compressor as it is a cyclic load. I have watched the belts on the old 2 cyl York or Tecumseh ones actually look like they are trying to come off (if you want a really weird belt vibration, Chrysler V2 compressors are horrid due to the 90° - 270° rather than every 180°. Even the multi-cylinder ones like a Chrysler C171 or Ford FS6 can have a harmonic belt hum. My original T2K CAR would vibrate the AC belt into the motor mount reinforcement peculiar to the turbocharged engines.

My older stuff with the 429 engines and York/Tecumseh compressors had a harmonic balancer weight built into the pulley on the cars, my 390 truck engine didn't have it though.

3600 RPM, could part of it be header resonance? FWIW, Matt's 1965 Corsa, with headers was real bad at 4500 rpm which due to the gearing and tire size was right at 65 mph.

On the power point, if you do not leave the illuminated USB charger in it that shouldn't be a problem, if it is then change it to an accessory powered source. The Flexes have a bunch of them, many of which the key has to be in accessory or run for them to be live, same with the factory 110V AC outlet.

Bill - Ships, night.

I'd rather not have to change to switched power as I want to be able to use it any time. And I really don't want to have to remember to pull the charger out of the socket each time I stop. IOW, I want a charger that has no LED, and preferably one with both USB-A & C that screws in rather then plugs in.

On the vibration, I think I'm going to have to get someone to run the throttle while I watch things under the hood. At this point I can't say that the vibes come at 3600, but since I had a resonance at 1800 and a vibration somewhere above 3000 I jumped to that conclusion. However, I need to do a lot more testing to find out at what RPM it is, what gears, etc. But thanks for the suggestions.

[Gary Lewis]

Nice progress!

Sounds like a good use case for a step bit. Glad you had your fingers away when using the hole saw

I like the idea of replacing the rivets with screws (I went back with rivets after coating the metal) but will the metal tray fit in with the nuts or are you not putting it back in? Edit: oh, nevermind - I see you said you aren't drilling out the rivets on the "real" one so doesn't matter.

Scott - I don't think a step bit would work, but I don't have one and have never used one so I really don't know.

The issue is that the existing hole is not centered. And while it is hard to see in the pic below, you have to put the hole in the center as the flange on the power port is the same size as the ash tray. So I'm afraid that the step bit would force you to drill where the hole is rather than where you want it.

On the screws/nuts, I could use that ash tray/door setup if I wanted to. They worked out very nicely, and with the way the ash tray is dented in for the pivot points the screw heads are recessed.

But, as you said, I won't have to drill the rivets out on Big Blue's ash tray since the chassis punch will fit in there.

[kramttocs]

Scott - I don't think a step bit would work, but I don't have one and have never used one so I really don't know.

The issue is that the existing hole is not centered. And while it is hard to see in the pic below, you have to put the hole in the center as the flange on the power port is the same size as the ash tray. So I'm afraid that the step bit would force you to drill where the hole is rather than where you want it.

On the screws/nuts, I could use that ash tray/door setup if I wanted to. They worked out very nicely, and with the way the ash tray is dented in for the pivot points the screw heads are recessed.

But, as you said, I won't have to drill the rivets out on Big Blue's ash tray since the chassis punch will fit in there.

I see - I didn't realize you were moving the hole instead of just enlarging it. Step bit wouldn't help you there.

Maybe?

[Gary Lewis]

I see - I didn't realize you were moving the hole instead of just enlarging it. Step bit wouldn't help you there.

Maybe?

That charger would work as it doesn't appear to have an LED. But I'd really like a USB-C port awa an A port or two - w/o an LED.

[grumpin]

That charger would work as it doesn't appear to have an LED. But I'd really like a USB-C port awa an A port or two - w/o an LED.

I’m going to throw something in here for the future or perhaps just to remember.

My Xterra has two power points, one in the rear baggage area and one in the center panel.

I use the one in the center panel for the CB radio. Sometimes my vehicles won’t get driven for awhile. I noticed the starter dragging after it had set. Drove it and everything was fine for a couple of days. It sat and did it again, couldn’t find anything so did an internet search and found people were having problems when they left a charger with no light in the socket. Power is cut to the socket when you switch the ignition off, my CB was turned off also.

I started unplugging the CB and it quit doing it as others had said. A strange quirk to me, but thought I’d mention it.