Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Did Warn make the factory manual hubs?

AFAIK, Warn has always made all factory hub locks for all 3 US makes (actually for Dana, which sells axles to all 3 US makers).

Over-lubing them seems to generally cause more problems than under-lubing.

The guts of the locks need airspace so the mechanisms can move. Filling them with grease effectively hydraulics (hydrolocks) them; manual OR auto.

...Auto Hubs, I’ve been told “they’re not going to work when it’s cold.”

Mine work fine in all weather.

I think that if I want to go with the earlier lockouts I'll have to change everything, meaning the hubs. But there's something I read that said the later style hub, with the rounded hex lock nut, requires a different lockout.

I'm more-familiar with 1/2-ton axles, but I don't think Dana designed a different hub based on what type of lock goes in.

...Teflon, so I'll try it.

I wouldn't use it inside the lock. Maybe outside the cap, under the knob.

...thinking about what switches to use...

...seven should fit and eight might fit.

...

Thoughts?

I think it can be very confusing have 7~8 identical switches in a row. Especially if you need to hit THE RIGHT one quickly; either in the dark, or when you can't take your eyes off where you're going. That's why I used several very-different switches on my dash - it's impossible to confuse them (even though I still haven't labelled them).

https://supermotors.net/getfile/988712/thumbnail/38clusterr.jpg

Mine always had a lot of crud packed between dial and ring.

That space is designed to be dry, so rain can keep it clean. I'd disassemble the plastic knob from the metal cap, clean & polish both, and see how it works without lube.

And I also don't think they make their own hubs...

Dana makes the hubs; Warn makes the locks.

Jim - I don't think there's any chance these locks are going to magically turn out of or into Lock. At least unless I find something seriously jamming them that can be cleared up. I've never seen locks this tight.

Steve - You make a good point about the switches. But one thing you didn't really say, although you implied it, is that the tighter the switches are packed in the harder it will be to get the right one. Even though I'll have the D60 with SD springs and an RSK, it'll still ride rather stiffly. One of the dumb things Ford did on my F150 is to make the nav system's input via the touch screen. Granted it is an F150, but it is still a truck, and if you don't rest your hand on something for steadying it is very difficult to hit the right "button". So packing the switches in tightly is probably not the best idea.

However, I didn't fully convey my thinking on how to differentiate the switches. First, the lever itself is available in black, gray, white, and red. And, it is available with two rows of raised bumps, like the OX switch, or three indented lines. Then the lens is available in clear, white, amber, green, red, and blue. So there's plenty of options to make them appear different.

However, I also have a plan (a cunning plan to borrow Dogsbody's phrase) to illuminate them at night. The LED in them is a separate circuit, so if I use a resistor from the dash lighting circuit and a diode to each switch the LED's can glow at night. And if I have different colored lenses and perhaps legends they should be distinguishable even at night.

[Nothing Special]

I have Warn premiums now, and while they are stiff they don't seize up and they don't lock themselves on the passenger side like the plastic ones were doing.

It got to the point that I seriously considered someone was pranking me.

Exactly why I have Warn Premiums instead of Standards.

[Steve83]

...the nav system's input via the touch screen. Granted it is an F150, but it is still a truck, and if you don't rest your hand on something for steadying it is very difficult to hit the right "button".

On my friend's '17 F150, most of the nav functions are locked out when the truck is moving over ~3mph.

...a cunning plan to borrow Dogsbody's phrase...

I know Baldrick used that a few times, but I thought Lord Blackadder came up with it, after killing the king.

I think I still have these:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/71707/thumbnail/hublocks-f250.jpg

[Gary Lewis]

...the nav system's input via the touch screen. Granted it is an F150, but it is still a truck, and if you don't rest your hand on something for steadying it is very difficult to hit the right "button".

On my friend's '17 F150, most of the nav functions are locked out when the truck is moving over ~3mph.

...a cunning plan to borrow Dogsbody's phrase...

I know Baldrick used that a few times, but I thought Lord Blackadder came up with it, after killing the king.

I think I still have these:

https://supermotors.net/getfile/71707/thumbnail/hublocks-f250.jpg

I've watched all of the Blackadder series (three?), but I forget who first came up with the catch phrase. So, I'll bet you are right.

On the nav system, you can't input a destination while moving on mine, but you can pan and zoom. However, it is a really clunky system. By FAR the worst nav system I've ever used. Most have a joy stick to let you pan or zoom, but not this one. You have to drag to pan, and there's a noticeable delay which makes it awkward. And after two minutes it reverts to where you are. So you can't use my trick of placing the cursor on the intersection where you are to turn as it will revert back before you get there.

Anyway, on those hubs and locks, I'm glad to see that they can be smooth. I had a few minutes watching the g-twins bike so took these outside and cleaned and lubed them. The main drag appears to be the o-rings on the dials/knobs themselves, one if which is cracked. And I lost one of the large o-rings that goes between the cap and the hub. Plus, the cap's bore is corroded a little bit at one spot where the knob's o-ring rides. It'll probably clean up, but then it'll probably corrode again since the chrome has been penetrated. In any event, I did get them to be free enough that I can turn them fairly easily.

Given that, one of two things needs to be done. The cheaper solution would be to find a rebuild kit for these caps to get the o-rings, and then smooth, blast and powder coat these. That would fix the bore so it wouldn't corrode, and would hide the bumps and bruises on them.

The much more expensive solution would be to replace the nuts & washer as well as the lockouts. That's looking like several hundred dollars so I'm leaning to the repair & powder coat approach. Thoughts?

[Gary Lewis]

I've watched all of the Blackadder series (three?), but I forget who first came up with the catch phrase. So, I'll bet you are right.

On the nav system, you can't input a destination while moving on mine, but you can pan and zoom. However, it is a really clunky system. By FAR the worst nav system I've ever used. Most have a joy stick to let you pan or zoom, but not this one. You have to drag to pan, and there's a noticeable delay which makes it awkward. And after two minutes it reverts to where you are. So you can't use my trick of placing the cursor on the intersection where you are to turn as it will revert back before you get there.

Anyway, on those hubs and locks, I'm glad to see that they can be smooth. I had a few minutes watching the g-twins bike so took these outside and cleaned and lubed them. The main drag appears to be the o-rings on the dials/knobs themselves, one if which is cracked. And I lost one of the large o-rings that goes between the cap and the hub. Plus, the cap's bore is corroded a little bit at one spot where the knob's o-ring rides. It'll probably clean up, but then it'll probably corrode again since the chrome has been penetrated. In any event, I did get them to be free enough that I can turn them fairly easily.

Given that, one of two things needs to be done. The cheaper solution would be to find a rebuild kit for these caps to get the o-rings, and then smooth, blast and powder coat these. That would fix the bore so it wouldn't corrode, and would hide the bumps and bruises on them.

The much more expensive solution would be to replace the nuts & washer as well as the lockouts. That's looking like several hundred dollars so I'm leaning to the repair & powder coat approach. Thoughts?

Well, I just figured out what I have and how I'm going to fix it/them. Called Torque King 4x4 and talked to Roy. I explained what I have and he explained that the '95 from which the axle came originally had automatic locking hubs. He knows this because that's the only thing that came with the rounded-hex nut and c-clip retainer. So, since my hubs are manual-locking ones then someone has pulled the auto hubs and bolted on the manuals.

However, according to Roy that is a ticking time bomb and 9 times out of 10 it goes off. That's because the auto hubs held the keeper in, but the manual hubs don't. So the c-clip falls out and the driver's side nut tightens up and the bearings seize, and the passenger's side unscrews and the hub falls off.

As for how the auto hubs work, we surmised that the weird outer part of the nut serves as a clutch or synchro against the hub, and spins something in the hub to cause it to engage. And that fits with the description in the '95 shop manual:

The TouchDrive 4x4 system allows the driver to engage four-wheel drive at the touch of a button instead of pulling a shift lever. This button is connected to an electronic control module which controls the functions necessary to engage the transfer case.

When the 4x4 button is depressed, the electronic control module energizes the electronic clutch coil in the transfer case. This accelerates the front axle shafts up to the same speed as the front wheels. As the axle shafts begin to rotate, they engage the automatic hub locks located at each wheel end. After approximately 5 seconds, the transfer case clutch coil turns off. A stepper motor located on the back of the transfer case then locks up the transfer case via a camming mechanism and a locking collar. The entire sequence takes only a few seconds.

To disengage the transfer case, again depress the 4x4 button. This will unlock the transfer case but the automatic hubs will remain locked. To unlock the hubs, back up the vehicle for at least 10 feet, then continue in the original direction. Because the front axle has been disengaged from the transfer case, the hubs will remain unlocked.

So I have yet another couple parts to clean up, blast, and powder coat.

[Nothing Special]

Well, I just figured out what I have and how I'm going to fix it/them. Called Torque King 4x4 and talked to Roy. I explained what I have and he explained that the '95 from which the axle came originally had automatic locking hubs. He knows this because that's the only thing that came with the rounded-hex nut and c-clip retainer. So, since my hubs are manual-locking ones then someone has pulled the auto hubs and bolted on the manuals.

However, according to Roy that is a ticking time bomb and 9 times out of 10 it goes off. That's because the auto hubs held the keeper in, but the manual hubs don't. So the c-clip falls out and the driver's side nut tightens up and the bearings seize, and the passenger's side unscrews and the hub falls off....

So are you going to get the standard spindle nuts and put those on in place of the rounded hex nut and c-clip retainer to use with your manual hubs?

 

[salans7]

Thanks! Your axle is a '90?

It's a 95+ but I have no way of knowing the exact year since I bought it from somebody who had 10 of them and the axle tag is gone.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, I just figured out what I have and how I'm going to fix it/them. Called Torque King 4x4 and talked to Roy. I explained what I have and he explained that the '95 from which the axle came originally had automatic locking hubs. He knows this because that's the only thing that came with the rounded-hex nut and c-clip retainer. So, since my hubs are manual-locking ones then someone has pulled the auto hubs and bolted on the manuals.

However, according to Roy that is a ticking time bomb and 9 times out of 10 it goes off. That's because the auto hubs held the keeper in, but the manual hubs don't. So the c-clip falls out and the driver's side nut tightens up and the bearings seize, and the passenger's side unscrews and the hub falls off....

So are you going to get the standard spindle nuts and put those on in place of the rounded hex nut and c-clip retainer to use with your manual hubs?

Yep. I ordered the nuts and special washers as well as the o-rings from Torque King 4x4. I’ll sand/file the dings out of the hubs, media-blast them, and then powder coat them Safety Red. 🤪

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks! Your axle is a '90?

It's a 95+ but I have no way of knowing the exact year since I bought it from somebody who had 10 of them and the axle tag is gone.

Shaun - Just check to make sure that you have the right nuts on yours. Not the rounded-hex ones with the tapered shoulder on them.

[salans7]

Shaun - Just check to make sure that you have the right nuts on yours. Not the rounded-hex ones with the tapered shoulder on them.

Mine have already been converted, luckily.