IDI Saginaw swap. The Saga begins...

[IDIBronco]

The sad part is, I passed up an idi van thinking that I didn’t need anything from it. Damn 🤦‍♂️. I want to try to go back to see if it’s still there but I doubt it. That was last fall. I moved and it’s a far drive now just to take a peek.

I didn’t notice it at first, but you are right. The pulley looks like a double V. I have a double V Saginaw pulley from a 1986 GMC 6.2 diesel truck, but the front groove is smaller in diameter. I might be able to substitute it if it’s just an idler for the AC... but I have no idea how it will line up. Best thing would be to find a van, or press forward with engineering the serpentine bracket.

On the 300 it’s really tight to get in there to measure in place. But I stuck a tape in there just out of curiosity and it looks to me like it’s 3.25”. I so the -GB bracket might be a useful one if it does direct swap with the C2 aluminum one. Not to muddy the waters even worse, but Craig mentioned that he thought there may be more than one aluminum C2 bracket also... with perhaps a 3” spacing on some applications.

Depending on that idi pulley offset, perhaps it would be able to use a idi or other dual belt pulley and not,have to offset the 300 bracket I used back toward the rear of the vehicle. It would be nice to have had a bolt on solution for the engine easily procured, but the route I am taking is pretty simple. Very basic measuring required, pretty simple welding. The hardest part wouls be coming up with the tube stock with 1"o.d. and 1/2" I.d.. I have the advantage of just diggint through my box of lathe drops and found a piece of 1 inch solid bar I just chucked up in the lathe, parrted off to the right length and center drilled a 1/2" through hole. You could probably use any readily available black pipe nipple with an appropriate I.d.. Just trim it to length.

I have been out in the shop already this morning. I am hoping to get the bracket all ready for final install before 2 this afternoon when my parts are supposed to come in.

So I know it is a lot of pictures, but for fabricating something like this extra pictures can be pretty handy in case someone wants to replicate this bracket. It is out in the shop with primer drying. Pretty happy with how it is turning out.

 

I just noticed the pictures are importing upside down... I will fix this on the computer later. I will edit this post from a computer to rectify this tomorrow or tuesday maybe.

[Ford F834]

Depending on that idi pulley offset, perhaps it would be able to use a idi or other dual belt pulley and not,have to offset the 300 bracket I used back toward the rear of the vehicle. It would be nice to have had a bolt on solution for the engine easily procured, but the route I am taking is pretty simple. Very basic measuring required, pretty simple welding. The hardest part wouls be coming up with the tube stock with 1"o.d. and 1/2" I.d.. I have the advantage of just diggint through my box of lathe drops and found a piece of 1 inch solid bar I just chucked up in the lathe, parrted off to the right length and center drilled a 1/2" through hole. You could probably use any readily available black pipe nipple with an appropriate I.d.. Just trim it to length.

I have been out in the shop already this morning. I am hoping to get the bracket all ready for final install before 2 this afternoon when my parts are supposed to come in.

So I know it is a lot of pictures, but for fabricating something like this extra pictures can be pretty handy in case someone wants to replicate this bracket. It is out in the shop with primer drying. Pretty happy with how it is turning out.

 

I just noticed the pictures are importing upside down... I will fix this on the computer later. I will edit this post from a computer to rectify this tomorrow or tuesday maybe.

That looks great! Thanks for documenting all sides/angles for future reference. That may very well help someone since IDI vans are so few and far between. I’m glad you are getting it sorted out, and again I apologize for the misinformation and sending you a part that did not work. I meant well, and we both learned a thing or two...

[IDIBronco]

That looks great! Thanks for documenting all sides/angles for future reference. That may very well help someone since IDI vans are so few and far between. I’m glad you are getting it sorted out, and again I apologize for the misinformation and sending you a part that did not work. I meant well, and we both learned a thing or two...

No hard feelings at all. I actually read about the same information other places. I am just pretty pleased how this is going to work out.

Additional information.

The stock belt for the power steering is a 15/32 x 60 3/8

I am going to try a belt 2 inches shorter.

Which would be a 15/32 x 58 3/8, the nice thing is the belt for alternator is the same size. According to rock auto's information.

That means only carrying 1 spare for 2 of the belts.

 

[IDIBronco]

Depending on that idi pulley offset, perhaps it would be able to use a idi or other dual belt pulley and not,have to offset the 300 bracket I used back toward the rear of the vehicle. It would be nice to have had a bolt on solution for the engine easily procured, but the route I am taking is pretty simple. Very basic measuring required, pretty simple welding. The hardest part wouls be coming up with the tube stock with 1"o.d. and 1/2" I.d.. I have the advantage of just diggint through my box of lathe drops and found a piece of 1 inch solid bar I just chucked up in the lathe, parrted off to the right length and center drilled a 1/2" through hole. You could probably use any readily available black pipe nipple with an appropriate I.d.. Just trim it to length.

I have been out in the shop already this morning. I am hoping to get the bracket all ready for final install before 2 this afternoon when my parts are supposed to come in.

So I know it is a lot of pictures, but for fabricating something like this extra pictures can be pretty handy in case someone wants to replicate this bracket. It is out in the shop with primer drying. Pretty happy with how it is turning out.

 

I just noticed the pictures are importing upside down... I will fix this on the computer later. I will edit this post from a computer to rectify this tomorrow or tuesday maybe.

I ended up having to get a belt only 1 inch shorter then stock (59 3/8") it was a gates 9590. I also had to modify the bends in the power steering pressure hose to make it work, but the ends were right and I can live with it now it is now. My wife volenteered to come out and take pictures with a real camera if you guys think the pictures I put up are not good enough. I do have quite a few more. I intend to sit down and upload them all to the computer then rotate and crop everything to highlight the intended subject. I haven't driven much yet, but it looks like no leaks, no loud pump cavitation (after bleeding steering back and forth a few times), and the steering assist is as good as the c2 ever was or better. I am pretty pleased with this "easy" project, even though it wasn't particularly as simple as I had thought.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted about this subject (saginaw swaps) in the past.

 

[Ford F834]

I ended up having to get a belt only 1 inch shorter then stock (59 3/8") it was a gates 9590. I also had to modify the bends in the power steering pressure hose to make it work, but the ends were right and I can live with it now it is now. My wife volenteered to come out and take pictures with a real camera if you guys think the pictures I put up are not good enough. I do have quite a few more. I intend to sit down and upload them all to the computer then rotate and crop everything to highlight the intended subject. I haven't driven much yet, but it looks like no leaks, no loud pump cavitation (after bleeding steering back and forth a few times), and the steering assist is as good as the c2 ever was or better. I am pretty pleased with this "easy" project, even though it wasn't particularly as simple as I had thought.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted about this subject (saginaw swaps) in the past.

Looks great! It Turned out to be a pain, but I think you will really like it. Mine got quieter after I ran it a while and I noticed a large difference in steering ease especially while not rolling. You do nice fab work 👍

[IDIBronco]

Looks great! It Turned out to be a pain, but I think you will really like it. Mine got quieter after I ran it a while and I noticed a large difference in steering ease especially while not rolling. You do nice fab work 👍

I am not sure I would ever call my work nice. I am just glad it worked out and my old used, unknown condition pump out of the van turned out to be good. I would bet it hasn't ran in 8 years. I have had it for about 3 and I traded a few mustang parts I had to get it for the manual transmission parts that are hard to find. It is a 4 speed overdrive stick (3+od). I drove the bronco around very little yesterday, but it is easier to steer. Now it is also obvious the old pump made a substantial amount of noise as the bronco at all engine speeds sounds quite a bit different. Overall, I am a pretty happy camper.

 

[Gary Lewis]

I am not sure I would ever call my work nice. I am just glad it worked out and my old used, unknown condition pump out of the van turned out to be good. I would bet it hasn't ran in 8 years. I have had it for about 3 and I traded a few mustang parts I had to get it for the manual transmission parts that are hard to find. It is a 4 speed overdrive stick (3+od). I drove the bronco around very little yesterday, but it is easier to steer. Now it is also obvious the old pump made a substantial amount of noise as the bronco at all engine speeds sounds quite a bit different. Overall, I am a pretty happy camper.

I've heard many a C2-equipped truck coming. Those are just awful sounding pumps when they whine, as they frequently do. So I'm converting both Dad's truck as well as Big Blue to Saginaw pumps during their transformations.

Another benefit of the Sag is that it doesn't puke fluid out the neck if you turn the steering wheel with the engine off.

[IDIBronco]

I've heard many a C2-equipped truck coming. Those are just awful sounding pumps when they whine, as they frequently do. So I'm converting both Dad's truck as well as Big Blue to Saginaw pumps during their transformations.

Another benefit of the Sag is that it doesn't puke fluid out the neck if you turn the steering wheel with the engine off.

How to install a Saginaw Power Steering Pump in a IDI V-Belt Truck (IDIBronco)

This will be an overview of how I was able to install a saginaw power steering pump from a ford van into my IDI powered Bronco. For a little background, I had noticed the steering assist from my stock C2 pump had been getting less and the noise had been increasing. I decided to do something about the problem and started to do a little research and found that the parts in the van I had sitting out back could be used (with some work) to convert to the Saginaw pump and correct the problem. I try to use what I have access to rather than go and buy new parts or conversion pieces, so in typical fashion I dug around my junk parts and found most of what I needed to complete this project.

Starting Point

Completed

Details:

1985 Ford Bronco

1985 F250 Powertrain (6.9 IDI)

1980 Ford E150 parts van (300 I6)

Required parts:

Saginaw Pump

Stock Saginaw Pulley

Stock Saginaw Mounting Bracket (modified)

V Belt 1 inch shorter than stock (gates 9590, 59.5" length)

Round Tube 1 inch O.D. & 1/2 I.D., 6 inches long minimum (or close dimensions)

Power Steering Hose (I ordered a new one for a 1986 van, gates 359470) (modified)

Required Tools:

Mig Welder

typical Hand tools (wrenches, screw driver, etc.)

grinder, saw, file

Directions:

Remove parts required from the parts donor. This included removing the Saginaw pump, complete with bracket and pulley. This turns out to be quite easy if you have a van with a 300 I6, No Ac, and flat front tires. The access to the parts is pretty simple.

I went ahead and removed the pressure and return hoses at this time with the pump, but as it turned out I didn't use either of them.

Next, I pulled the C2 pump, pulley, mounting bracket out of the bronco as a unit and also removed the power steering pressure hose as it would not be reused.

Now the fun part of measuring everything begins. I did this conversion with the plan being to match the offset of the center line of the pulley from the mounting surface at the front edge of the C2 bracket. You will have to be a bit understanding, because finding pictures that will demonstrate exactly what I am talking about are not the simplest to come up with...

I quickly made the executive decision to let the measurements be "Close Enough" on all areas of this project as making a part like this accurate to more than about 1/16 of an inch is a bit ridiculous. V belts can handle a bit of misalignment and I feel this is well within the limits of their use.

I measured this offset as being 1 3/8".

When I measure the offset of the Saginaw pump and bracket I measured the offset to be 1 3/4". This means If I ran the Saginaw pump and bracket against the mount it would offset the pump 3/8" too far forward (1 3/4" - 1 3/8" = 3/8'). To rectify this I would have to space the pump and bracket 3/8" farther to the rear of the engine compared to how it was originally intended. Additionally, the bracket is very different in design compared to the C2 bracket. The C2 bracket I measured to be 4 9/16" from front to back where it mounts between the front mount and the head. This is important because it is how the pump is held rigidly in place both front to back and provides the twisting support to offset the torque applied from the belt. The issue is the Saginaw bracket from the 300 I6 is only approximately 1/4" thick. So in order to make the full 4 9/16" required I would have to have a spacer behind the pump bracket as well. The spacer would need to be sized at 3 15/16" (4 9/16" - 3/8" (front spacer) - 1/4" (bracket thickness) = 3 15/16").

The next issue is the pivot to adjuster bolt distance.

The C2 bracket has a spacing of 3 1/4".

The Saginaw bracket has a spacing of 3".

Stock Bracket

So you have to modify the saginaw bracket to get the center of hole to center of hole distance to be 3 1/4". I first attempted to just move the pivot hole to make this distance work within the confines of the bracket area.

I drilled a hole where I thought this would work, but it created 2 problems. You cannot move the pivot hole that direction because it reduces the amount of area the pump and bracket can swivel to adjust for belt tension, and the bolt will no longer clear the pulley for installation.

I then decided to fully modify the bracket. Up until this point I had thought I could just get away with drilling a hole and some spacers, with no welding. The welding would now be required in order to get 3 1/4" spacing between the holes and keep the ability to adjust the belt/install the bolt.

What I decided to do I cut some of the bracket away to weld a 4 9/16" tube to the bracket to make the bracket mimic the design of the C2 bracket.

Here you can see I had outlined in blue where I intended to remove the metal for the tube to be mounted. You have to grind away the welded nut on the back of the bracket for the hole you intend to modify.

Next I torch cut the metal away, then ground, and finally filled until the tube (which measures 1" o.d., 1/2" i.d., 4 9/16" long) was a tight fit into the bracket. I used a couple of welder setup magnets to hold the tube at a right angle in 2 different directions to the face of the bracket and spaced the front of the tub to be 3/8" above the face of the bracket. I don't have a good setup picture, but I do have a couple pictures of it welded up. I also welded the extra hole shut I had drilled.

I then test fit the bracket on the pump to get an idea if any gussets would be able to be added without interference. Additionally, I took several pictures to show the critical measurements.

Next, I test fit the pump in the bronco to check for clearance, alignment, and belt length. It was apparent the factory belt would be too long, and I had plenty of room for gussets. So out it came again for gussets.

I then cleaned everything and shot it with some primer. Here I am including several pictures from many angles, as the primer makes everything easy to see. If someone wants to duplicate my work these may be helpful.

I then shot it with a coat of black paint.

I then installed the pump and bracket. The tricky part is getting the new pressure hose to work. It takes some creative adjustment to the shape of the bends. I don't have a good picture of what I did to the hose, nor do I think a picture would easily show you what you would need to do. You just have to adjust the bends (substantially) to get everything to connect, and stay out of harms way. Perhaps there is a better way to do this, but I am pleased with how it turned out.

The only real picture I have of the pump installed isn't great, but the results of the conversion are wonderful. There no longer is squealing and I have great assist for the steering even when stopped.

Conclusions

I would highly recommend anyone to do this conversion. The C2 pump has been a great annoyance for me on several vehicles now. I have converted a couple of them previous to this adventure, but this swap was by far the most involved. I want to thank anyone who has helped or posted about doing this conversion as I did read and research a great deal before embarking on the project. I did try to include some of the problem solving required to get the alignment of the belts to come out, as this same process can work for different pulley offsets and brackets if you cannot access the same bracket I used. You just have to verify where you want the pulley to end up and space everything accordingly. I could have used a gas V8 bracket to modify, but I felt that the 300 I6 bracket offered a greater amount of simplicity as it is just a simple flat bracket and not a horseshoe shape. In the end I think I ended up with a pretty strong bracket and a great pump. Now I need to decide what the next project will be.

[Gary Lewis]

How to install a Saginaw Power Steering Pump in a IDI V-Belt Truck (IDIBronco)

This will be an overview of how I was able to install a saginaw power steering pump from a ford van into my IDI powered Bronco. For a little background, I had noticed the steering assist from my stock C2 pump had been getting less and the noise had been increasing. I decided to do something about the problem and started to do a little research and found that the parts in the van I had sitting out back could be used (with some work) to convert to the Saginaw pump and correct the problem. I try to use what I have access to rather than go and buy new parts or conversion pieces, so in typical fashion I dug around my junk parts and found most of what I needed to complete this project.

Starting Point

Completed

Details:

1985 Ford Bronco

1985 F250 Powertrain (6.9 IDI)

1980 Ford E150 parts van (300 I6)

Required parts:

Saginaw Pump

Stock Saginaw Pulley

Stock Saginaw Mounting Bracket (modified)

V Belt 1 inch shorter than stock (gates 9590, 59.5" length)

Round Tube 1 inch O.D. & 1/2 I.D., 6 inches long minimum (or close dimensions)

Power Steering Hose (I ordered a new one for a 1986 van, gates 359470) (modified)

Required Tools:

Mig Welder

typical Hand tools (wrenches, screw driver, etc.)

grinder, saw, file

Directions:

Remove parts required from the parts donor. This included removing the Saginaw pump, complete with bracket and pulley. This turns out to be quite easy if you have a van with a 300 I6, No Ac, and flat front tires. The access to the parts is pretty simple.

I went ahead and removed the pressure and return hoses at this time with the pump, but as it turned out I didn't use either of them.

Next, I pulled the C2 pump, pulley, mounting bracket out of the bronco as a unit and also removed the power steering pressure hose as it would not be reused.

Now the fun part of measuring everything begins. I did this conversion with the plan being to match the offset of the center line of the pulley from the mounting surface at the front edge of the C2 bracket. You will have to be a bit understanding, because finding pictures that will demonstrate exactly what I am talking about are not the simplest to come up with...

I quickly made the executive decision to let the measurements be "Close Enough" on all areas of this project as making a part like this accurate to more than about 1/16 of an inch is a bit ridiculous. V belts can handle a bit of misalignment and I feel this is well within the limits of their use.

I measured this offset as being 1 3/8".

When I measure the offset of the Saginaw pump and bracket I measured the offset to be 1 3/4". This means If I ran the Saginaw pump and bracket against the mount it would offset the pump 3/8" too far forward (1 3/4" - 1 3/8" = 3/8'). To rectify this I would have to space the pump and bracket 3/8" farther to the rear of the engine compared to how it was originally intended. Additionally, the bracket is very different in design compared to the C2 bracket. The C2 bracket I measured to be 4 9/16" from front to back where it mounts between the front mount and the head. This is important because it is how the pump is held rigidly in place both front to back and provides the twisting support to offset the torque applied from the belt. The issue is the Saginaw bracket from the 300 I6 is only approximately 1/4" thick. So in order to make the full 4 9/16" required I would have to have a spacer behind the pump bracket as well. The spacer would need to be sized at 3 15/16" (4 9/16" - 3/8" (front spacer) - 1/4" (bracket thickness) = 3 15/16").

The next issue is the pivot to adjuster bolt distance.

The C2 bracket has a spacing of 3 1/4".

The Saginaw bracket has a spacing of 3".

Stock Bracket

So you have to modify the saginaw bracket to get the center of hole to center of hole distance to be 3 1/4". I first attempted to just move the pivot hole to make this distance work within the confines of the bracket area.

I drilled a hole where I thought this would work, but it created 2 problems. You cannot move the pivot hole that direction because it reduces the amount of area the pump and bracket can swivel to adjust for belt tension, and the bolt will no longer clear the pulley for installation.

I then decided to fully modify the bracket. Up until this point I had thought I could just get away with drilling a hole and some spacers, with no welding. The welding would now be required in order to get 3 1/4" spacing between the holes and keep the ability to adjust the belt/install the bolt.

What I decided to do I cut some of the bracket away to weld a 4 9/16" tube to the bracket to make the bracket mimic the design of the C2 bracket.

Here you can see I had outlined in blue where I intended to remove the metal for the tube to be mounted. You have to grind away the welded nut on the back of the bracket for the hole you intend to modify.

Next I torch cut the metal away, then ground, and finally filled until the tube (which measures 1" o.d., 1/2" i.d., 4 9/16" long) was a tight fit into the bracket. I used a couple of welder setup magnets to hold the tube at a right angle in 2 different directions to the face of the bracket and spaced the front of the tub to be 3/8" above the face of the bracket. I don't have a good setup picture, but I do have a couple pictures of it welded up. I also welded the extra hole shut I had drilled.

I then test fit the bracket on the pump to get an idea if any gussets would be able to be added without interference. Additionally, I took several pictures to show the critical measurements.

Next, I test fit the pump in the bronco to check for clearance, alignment, and belt length. It was apparent the factory belt would be too long, and I had plenty of room for gussets. So out it came again for gussets.

I then cleaned everything and shot it with some primer. Here I am including several pictures from many angles, as the primer makes everything easy to see. If someone wants to duplicate my work these may be helpful.

I then shot it with a coat of black paint.

I then installed the pump and bracket. The tricky part is getting the new pressure hose to work. It takes some creative adjustment to the shape of the bends. I don't have a good picture of what I did to the hose, nor do I think a picture would easily show you what you would need to do. You just have to adjust the bends (substantially) to get everything to connect, and stay out of harms way. Perhaps there is a better way to do this, but I am pleased with how it turned out.

The only real picture I have of the pump installed isn't great, but the results of the conversion are wonderful. There no longer is squealing and I have great assist for the steering even when stopped.

Conclusions

I would highly recommend anyone to do this conversion. The C2 pump has been a great annoyance for me on several vehicles now. I have converted a couple of them previous to this adventure, but this swap was by far the most involved. I want to thank anyone who has helped or posted about doing this conversion as I did read and research a great deal before embarking on the project. I did try to include some of the problem solving required to get the alignment of the belts to come out, as this same process can work for different pulley offsets and brackets if you cannot access the same bracket I used. You just have to verify where you want the pulley to end up and space everything accordingly. I could have used a gas V8 bracket to modify, but I felt that the 300 I6 bracket offered a greater amount of simplicity as it is just a simple flat bracket and not a horseshoe shape. In the end I think I ended up with a pretty strong bracket and a great pump. Now I need to decide what the next project will be.

Wow! Just WOW!

That is an extremely well done how-to. And, it deserves a place on the website itself as it won't be found nearly as easily or often here in the forum.

How about a new page called Saginaw Conversions in the Suspension & Steering/Steering? With your approval I'll see what I can do using your words and layout. But, if you want to email me your pics that might be better as I can use higher res pics on the web pages than I can here in the forum.

 

[IDIBronco]

Wow! Just WOW!

That is an extremely well done how-to. And, it deserves a place on the website itself as it won't be found nearly as easily or often here in the forum.

How about a new page called Saginaw Conversions in the Suspension & Steering/Steering? With your approval I'll see what I can do using your words and layout. But, if you want to email me your pics that might be better as I can use higher res pics on the web pages than I can here in the forum.

I will put a file together of the pictures sometime soon to send you. I just edited pictures and modified them as I went so some pictures may or may not exist yet as they are shown in the how to i typed up. I am more then happy to have the information be put somewhere that it can be found and put to good use. I will send you an email or emails if it requires several to get the photos to you as soon as I can. Weather permitting I might go take a few more "better" pictures of the finished installation. When writing a how to description down I quickly could see I should have taken more pictures along the way, but I think there is enough there a person could copy the work I did. I also only used the camera on my phone for all the pictures so the resolution available isn't all that great.