Rembrant Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I know little about the 4x4 trucks, but thought I'd post this ad in case anybody was wanting one of these PTO cases. I don't know how "rare" they are, but my Google searches tell me they were optional on the F350 4x4 cab/chassis trucks? They were used to run hydraulic pumps in some applications? https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1403665676&requestSource=b This guy parts out Ford trucks by the way...mostly 1987-1997 stuff, but Bullnoses once in a while (They're pretty rare up here these days). I've purchased parts from him, and he will ship. He supplied the M5OD crossmember for my 5spd swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 That's interesting. I didn't even know that there was a transfer case with PTO capabilities. My transmission(s) have the same plate that is shown, so I don't know that I'd need it on the t-case. And, I'm not really sure what I'd use a PTO for. I've heard that a winch can be run off one, but don't know how that works. Does a shaft go from the tranny to the winch in the front or back? Is the winch run by hydraulics? Is the winch in the center and the winch lines run to the front or rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramttocs Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 That's interesting. I didn't even know that there was a transfer case with PTO capabilities. My transmission(s) have the same plate that is shown, so I don't know that I'd need it on the t-case. And, I'm not really sure what I'd use a PTO for. I've heard that a winch can be run off one, but don't know how that works. Does a shaft go from the tranny to the winch in the front or back? Is the winch run by hydraulics? Is the winch in the center and the winch lines run to the front or rear? Never seen it on a transfer case either. My 86 1 ton parts truck (was a 500 gallon gas tank truck) has the pto unit on the transmission. Shaft goes from it to a Roper fuel pump that is hanging under the frame in a cradle and piped into the tank. I've seen postings of pto powered winches on the backs of tow trucks or gin pole trucks. Never looked underneath one but I've always assumed that the pto shaft went straight back to gear box and then up 90 degrees to the unit on the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 That's interesting. I didn't even know that there was a transfer case with PTO capabilities. My transmission(s) have the same plate that is shown, so I don't know that I'd need it on the t-case. And, I'm not really sure what I'd use a PTO for. I've heard that a winch can be run off one, but don't know how that works. Does a shaft go from the tranny to the winch in the front or back? Is the winch run by hydraulics? Is the winch in the center and the winch lines run to the front or rear? https://supermotors.net/getfile/687488/thumbnail/bw1356pto.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/249572/thumbnail/bw1356manshift.jpg...I don't know that I'd need it on the t-case.You also have to consider clearance for the PTO you want to install. In some cases, there's more space by the t-case than by the trans.Does a shaft go from the tranny to the winch in the front or back?Yes, that's one way, and that type of winch was a factory option on early Broncos. https://supermotors.net/getfile/972895/thumbnail/hesw-p1.jpgIs the winch run by hydraulics?Yes, that's another option. But most light-truck hydraulics are run from a Saginaw PS pump.Is the winch in the center and the winch lines run to the front or rear?Yes, that's how most rollback wreckers are built, using a PTO hydraulic pump & hydraulic Ramsey winch. You can also install a PTO generator & have 220VAC anywhere, but it's an expensive way to drive a generator, and a lot of weight to add to the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 https://supermotors.net/getfile/687488/thumbnail/bw1356pto.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/249572/thumbnail/bw1356manshift.jpg...I don't know that I'd need it on the t-case.You also have to consider clearance for the PTO you want to install. In some cases, there's more space by the t-case than by the trans.Does a shaft go from the tranny to the winch in the front or back?Yes, that's one way, and that type of winch was a factory option on early Broncos. https://supermotors.net/getfile/972895/thumbnail/hesw-p1.jpgIs the winch run by hydraulics?Yes, that's another option. But most light-truck hydraulics are run from a Saginaw PS pump.Is the winch in the center and the winch lines run to the front or rear?Yes, that's how most rollback wreckers are built, using a PTO hydraulic pump & hydraulic Ramsey winch. You can also install a PTO generator & have 220VAC anywhere, but it's an expensive way to drive a generator, and a lot of weight to add to the truck. Interesting! Hadn't thought about maybe having more space around the t-case than the tranny. But it makes sense. And, I didn't realize that early Broncos had an option for a shaft-driven winch. I guess with the 60 amp alternators, which required 3000 RPM to hit that output (I have charts from the dealer facts books that show that), it might have made sense to run the winch off the engine via a PTO. But today when we have alternators that kick out 130 amps with far less engine RPM, and the advent of much stronger permanent-magnet motors, that doesn't make sense. And, I didn't know that some hydraulics are run off a Saginaw PS pump. But, that makes sense as the Sag has a lot of capability. And with the serpentine belts we can use that capability. Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 ...we have alternators that kick out 130 amps with far less engine RPM, and the advent of much stronger permanent-magnet motors, that doesn't make sense.Modern vehicles have higher-output alternators because they NEED them. Where a fully-loaded early Bronco might have needed 30 Amps to run everything electrical that could be had on the truck plus every 12V accessory you could buy in your hometown at that time, modern trucks commonly need upwards of 100 for A/C, lights, stereo, electronic dash & powertrain controls, TPMS, parking sensors, heated/cooled seats, heated mirrors & windows...; and that's BEFORE you add off-road lights, air compressors, power inverters, trailers, & winches. So even with a modern winch motor (which can still draw over 200A near stall) & alternator (which will overheat if loaded at idle for more than a few seconds), a PTO or hydraulic winch can still make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetesPonies Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 ...we have alternators that kick out 130 amps with far less engine RPM, and the advent of much stronger permanent-magnet motors, that doesn't make sense.Modern vehicles have higher-output alternators because they NEED them. Where a fully-loaded early Bronco might have needed 30 Amps to run everything electrical that could be had on the truck plus every 12V accessory you could buy in your hometown at that time, modern trucks commonly need upwards of 100 for A/C, lights, stereo, electronic dash & powertrain controls, TPMS, parking sensors, heated/cooled seats, heated mirrors & windows...; and that's BEFORE you add off-road lights, air compressors, power inverters, trailers, & winches. So even with a modern winch motor (which can still draw over 200A near stall) & alternator (which will overheat if loaded at idle for more than a few seconds), a PTO or hydraulic winch can still make a lot of sense. Bull . . tally the amps being used and show me where you get anywhere close to 130. Isn't going to happen . .not even close. Oh, I've been told "my electric fan need 30 A" . Wow, people are ignorant and need to be more educated in the subject. Your fan might draw "somewhere" close to 20A when it kicks in, but drops to about 5-7A to run. We don't outfit electrical systems for max start up amps in our vehicle. if we did that in our houses, we wouldn't have 150-200A services running the entire house . . would we? I'd love to discuss this, but you're going to have to show me where those amps are really needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Bull . . tally the amps being used and show me where you get anywhere close to 130. I know this wouldn't be the norm for most vehicles, but my diesel Volkswagen has a factory 140 amp alternator. My car also has a factory "supplementary electric heater" that draws something crazy like 85 amps when it's being used (It has a 100 amp fuse). Four glow plugs that draw something like 10 amps each, plus all the other doodads...it adds up quick. However...that's a bit of a unique set-up, and not all that common in the grand scheme of things. What is the stock 1G alternator in my 84 F150? Isn't it only 30 or 40 amps? With no options on my truck, not even a radio, I have to laugh when I think about the fact that most of the time my alternator is only running my spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 ...show me where you get anywhere close to 130.My Bronco is EFI, so it's slightly higher than a carb (EEC & electric fuel pump), but when I was running e-fans (from a Tempo, IIRC), it would commonly draw over 120A total for the truck when the fans, lights, radio, & A/C were running. Eventually, the high draw cooked the alternator....electric fan need 30 A...That seems about right to me. The Mark VIII fan (which is a popular choice) draws around that much running (~40A startup), and my fans were slightly higher. https://supermotors.net/getfile/565793/thumbnail/efan94mkviii.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/978754/thumbnail/34fanz.jpgWhat is the stock 1G alternator in my 84 F150?Depends how big it was - do you remember what its case looked like? https://supermotors.net/getfile/897843/thumbnail/alternator1g.jpg This is a 100A 1G: https://supermotors.net/getfile/859765/thumbnail/1ghd.jpg...my alternator is only running my spark plugs.Actually, the ignition module & coil; plus the instruments, lights (turn signals), & maintaining the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Depends how big it was - do you remember what its case looked like? https://supermotors.net/getfile/897843/thumbnail/alternator1g.jpg This is a 100A 1G: https://supermotors.net/getfile/859765/thumbnail/1ghd.jpg...my alternator is only running my spark plugs.Actually, the ignition module & coil; plus the instruments, lights (turn signals), & maintaining the battery. LOL, yes, I know it is running the coil and ignition module...I just didn't word that properly...when I said spark plugs, I meant the spark plugs and associated devices required to run them. I just meant that cruising down the road with no lights on the power requirements of my truck are very very low. I'll check my alternator when I get home. The original 1984 factory alternator is still in the truck. I thought it was only a 40 amp unit. When I looked at the build sheet it only showed a 40 amp ALT. My truck has no radio, and doesn't even have a cigarette lighter, so it's probably safe to assume that they didn't install a heavy duty alternator in an otherwise bare bones base model truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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