ReneH Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Rene' I just looked at my parts and labor section on AllData, specifically the output shafts and extension housings on the E4OD 2WD vs 4WD models (I used the 1996 351 version as the model). 2WD: Output shaft - F4TZ-7A130-B Extension housing - F85Z-7A039-DA 4WD: Output shaft - F4TZ-7A130-B Extension housing - F81Z-7A039-A It looks like if you can find a 351 case E4OD, either 2 or 4WD, it looks like all you would need to make it 4WD would be the extension housing which is where the transfer case attaches. Thanks, Bill! But for me it seems to be easier to find a complete 90th truck with an E4OD instead of a gearbox or parts of it... But with your information, I've now more chances to get what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Rene' I just looked at my parts and labor section on AllData, specifically the output shafts and extension housings on the E4OD 2WD vs 4WD models (I used the 1996 351 version as the model). 2WD: Output shaft - F4TZ-7A130-B Extension housing - F85Z-7A039-DA 4WD: Output shaft - F4TZ-7A130-B Extension housing - F81Z-7A039-A It looks like if you can find a 351 case E4OD, either 2 or 4WD, it looks like all you would need to make it 4WD would be the extension housing which is where the transfer case attaches. Ok, maybe it's easier that I've thought... housing 01 I don't know, what they mean with "no sensor hole"... housing 02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Rene' I just looked at my parts and labor section on AllData, specifically the output shafts and extension housings on the E4OD 2WD vs 4WD models (I used the 1996 351 version as the model). 2WD: Output shaft - F4TZ-7A130-B Extension housing - F85Z-7A039-DA 4WD: Output shaft - F4TZ-7A130-B Extension housing - F81Z-7A039-A It looks like if you can find a 351 case E4OD, either 2 or 4WD, it looks like all you would need to make it 4WD would be the extension housing which is where the transfer case attaches. Another question, that may important is, if I can check the E4OD, when I have bought it, if everything is OK inside. I don't have much experience in overhauling automatic transmissions...I only have heard, that this is not so easy. Are there parts, that common for failing on the E4OD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Whitstone Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 I don't know, what they mean with "no sensor hole"... I think they are referring to whether there is a hole in the housing to hold a vehicle speed sensor and/or a speedometer cable. The 9" rear end (which they quit making sometime in the 80's) did not have a provision for a VSS. The 8.8" that replaced it had a VSS. So the early housings have a hole for a VSS because they were mated with a 9". The later housings have no hole for a VSS because they were mated to an 8.8", where the VSS was mounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Whitstone Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Another question, that may important is, if I can check the E4OD, when I have bought it, if everything is OK inside. I don't have much experience in overhauling automatic transmissions...I only have heard, that this is not so easy. Are there parts, that common for failing on the E4OD? I don't know how you can check an automatic transmission without actually mounting it to a vehicle and driving it. I have heard the torque converters that came with E4ODs are subject to ballooning, but I have no firsthand experience with that. I rebuilt my own E4OD, I talked about it on a build thread somewhere on here. It was not difficult, if you have ever built an engine you should do ok with this job. There is a very detailed set of youtube videos from a company called The Transmission Bench. The link is in that build thread for the first one (see below). I watched the entire series so that I would know what I was in for before I did it. There are some specialized tools you have to buy, but for all the tools that were needed was less than $100 USD. The transmission rebuild stuff starts around here. https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Deuce-Build-Thread-tp106643p107653.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Ok, maybe it's easier that I've thought... housing 01 I don't know, what they mean with "no sensor hole"... housing 02 Probably referring to a hole for the speed sensor or in your case speedometer cable. Yours should come off the transfer case as it needs to measure the turns of the driveshaft driving the rear axle. Basically not an issue for a 4WD truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Another question, that may important is, if I can check the E4OD, when I have bought it, if everything is OK inside. I don't have much experience in overhauling automatic transmissions...I only have heard, that this is not so easy. Are there parts, that common for failing on the E4OD? I don't know how you can check an automatic transmission without actually mounting it to a vehicle and driving it. I have heard the torque converters that came with E4ODs are subject to ballooning, but I have no firsthand experience with that. I rebuilt my own E4OD, I talked about it on a build thread somewhere on here. It was not difficult, if you have ever built an engine you should do ok with this job. There is a very detailed set of youtube videos from a company called The Transmission Bench. The link is in that build thread for the first one (see below). I watched the entire series so that I would know what I was in for before I did it. There are some specialized tools you have to buy, but for all the tools that were needed was less than $100 USD. The transmission rebuild stuff starts around here. https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/The-Deuce-Build-Thread-tp106643p107653.html Thanks for your help. This is an impressive threat. It will help me a lot, when I start to change the transmission. So, I have found the needed cover for the 4WD output. I will send some links of output shafts, I've found. If I buy the E4OD, that I can get here in Germany, it will take some time to fully overhaul it, like you've done. So, I can get the E4OD, the cover and the output shaft. I still have no plan how or where to get the needed driveshafts. Maybe the best way to go is to buy the E4OD and disassemble it for the overhaul. Maybe also the output shaft and the cover for 4WD. I've taken some pictures of my status quo: If the E4OD is about 6" longer, it shouldn't be a problem. I have to build new exhaust pipes, coming from the drivers side and I may have to move the petrol filter. On the body side, I may get problems with the height of the speedometer connection on the transfer case. So, what do you think? Buy the E4OD, the shaft and the cover, first and overhaul it? For the rest I'll find a solution, when the time has come... In my opinion, then invest can be worth, as I use the bronco as daily driver and also for driving into holidays. So as far as I know, when the overdrive is about 0.71 to 1 and currently I have 3,200 rpm at about 75 mph, I will get about 2,300 rpm in overdrive. So I'll save much fuel on longer distance. Maybe even more with the effect of the torque converter lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Whitstone Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Thanks for your help. This is an impressive threat. It will help me a lot, when I start to change the transmission. So, I have found the needed cover for the 4WD output. I will send some links of output shafts, I've found. If I buy the E4OD, that I can get here in Germany, it will take some time to fully overhaul it, like you've done. So, I can get the E4OD, the cover and the output shaft. I still have no plan how or where to get the needed driveshafts. Maybe the best way to go is to buy the E4OD and disassemble it for the overhaul. Maybe also the output shaft and the cover for 4WD. So, what do you think? Buy the E4OD, the shaft and the cover, first and overhaul it? For the rest I'll find a solution, when the time has come... In my opinion, then invest can be worth, as I use the bronco as daily driver and also for driving into holidays. So as far as I know, when the overdrive is about 0.71 to 1 and currently I have 3,200 rpm at about 75 mph, I will get about 2,300 rpm in overdrive. So I'll save much fuel on longer distance. Maybe even more with the effect of the torque converter lock. I thought that Bill's post showed that changing the output shaft was not necessary, it's the same for 2wd as it is for 4wd. So you should not need to buy a shaft. The gas mileage (kilometerage?) will definitely be better, my engine turns about 1800 at 70mph I think. And I know how brutal fuel prices are over there. Driveshafts can be shortened or lengthened, I had my stock rear driveshaft shortened on mine for about $300 USD. Driveshaft shops are somewhat common here, I assume you have them there too. Some other things to be aware of with this swap: 1. You will need to lengthen your transfer case shift linkage because the transfer case will be sitting further back. 2. I don't know for sure that the C6 transfer case will bolt directly to the E4OD tailshaft extension. I think they are the same but I don't know. I used the transfer case that came with the E4OD (my truck was originally 2wd, I swapped in all the 4wd stuff from a donor truck). 3. I don't know how the wiring will work, being that your truck and EEC have a c6. The c6 is not an electronically controlled transmission and so would have none of the electronic control that the E4OD needs. I think you talked earlier about swapping to an EEC that had an E4OD behind it. You will either need to do that, or install a stand-alone transmission computer. One other thing you need to be aware of with E4OD's is that there are "early" (1989-1994) versions, and "late" versions (1995-up). They are mechanically identical, but the electronics in the solenoid pack are different, and the solenoid packs have slightly different plugs. This is because the early ones had diodes installed in the solenoid pack, and the later ones had them in the ECU. So you need to make sure your ECU is compatible with your solenoid pack. As far as I can tell, this truth table illustrates what is compatible: Solenoid pack ECU Compatible Early Early OK Late Late OK Early Late Ok because both have diodes so you are doubly protected Late Early No diodes anywhere so no good If you planned to replace the solenoid pack anyway (and you should) then you just need to make sure you get the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneH Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Thanks for your help. This is an impressive threat. It will help me a lot, when I start to change the transmission. So, I have found the needed cover for the 4WD output. I will send some links of output shafts, I've found. If I buy the E4OD, that I can get here in Germany, it will take some time to fully overhaul it, like you've done. So, I can get the E4OD, the cover and the output shaft. I still have no plan how or where to get the needed driveshafts. Maybe the best way to go is to buy the E4OD and disassemble it for the overhaul. Maybe also the output shaft and the cover for 4WD. So, what do you think? Buy the E4OD, the shaft and the cover, first and overhaul it? For the rest I'll find a solution, when the time has come... In my opinion, then invest can be worth, as I use the bronco as daily driver and also for driving into holidays. So as far as I know, when the overdrive is about 0.71 to 1 and currently I have 3,200 rpm at about 75 mph, I will get about 2,300 rpm in overdrive. So I'll save much fuel on longer distance. Maybe even more with the effect of the torque converter lock. I thought that Bill's post showed that changing the output shaft was not necessary, it's the same for 2wd as it is for 4wd. So you should not need to buy a shaft. The gas mileage (kilometerage?) will definitely be better, my engine turns about 1800 at 70mph I think. And I know how brutal fuel prices are over there. Driveshafts can be shortened or lengthened, I had my stock rear driveshaft shortened on mine for about $300 USD. Driveshaft shops are somewhat common here, I assume you have them there too. Some other things to be aware of with this swap: 1. You will need to lengthen your transfer case shift linkage because the transfer case will be sitting further back. 2. I don't know for sure that the C6 transfer case will bolt directly to the E4OD tailshaft extension. I think they are the same but I don't know. I used the transfer case that came with the E4OD (my truck was originally 2wd, I swapped in all the 4wd stuff from a donor truck). 3. I don't know how the wiring will work, being that your truck and EEC have a c6. The c6 is not an electronically controlled transmission and so would have none of the electronic control that the E4OD needs. I think you talked earlier about swapping to an EEC that had an E4OD behind it. You will either need to do that, or install a stand-alone transmission computer. One other thing you need to be aware of with E4OD's is that there are "early" (1989-1994) versions, and "late" versions (1995-up). They are mechanically identical, but the electronics in the solenoid pack are different, and the solenoid packs have slightly different plugs. This is because the early ones had diodes installed in the solenoid pack, and the later ones had them in the ECU. So you need to make sure your ECU is compatible with your solenoid pack. As far as I can tell, this truth table illustrates what is compatible: Solenoid pack ECU Compatible Early Early OK Late Late OK Early Late Ok because both have diodes so you are doubly protected Late Early No diodes anywhere so no good If you planned to replace the solenoid pack anyway (and you should) then you just need to make sure you get the right one. Hi Pete, Very good information, again. About the shaft, it seems that I have done an error in translation ori only haven't read exactly what was written. About the gas prices: currently I have to pay about 6.8 euro per gallon... About the driveshafts: Here in Germany we have only a small amount of shops that work on engines or other mechanical parts for cars. Repair or adapt is not wanted here since more than two decades. Here in Germany cars were produced and after three years "exported". Repairing is very expensive, of you can't do it by your own. Engines, transmissions and so on are components, that can't be repaired, they have to be replaced. It's a shame, that the Germans proclaim how they love the nature and how sustainable they are. But that's another point, that haven't anything to do with my mindset. I fear, that shorten and lengthen the driveshafts will cost about the same as the transmission itself... The linkage will be no problem for me to adopt. The ECU will also be no problem with the help of Bill and Gary. I've planed to switch to the EEC-V with MAF and SEFI some time ago. Combined with a holley HIGH-RAM EFI intake mainfold. Maybe some new heads in the future. I also have some good ideas for customized stainless steel exhaust mainfolds, but I have to do the CAD drawings, for what I need time, I currently don't have. The E4OD, I cam get is a 1991. The ECU may be a 1994? I don't know. Bill has to tell me, what ECU I need... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Hi Pete, Very good information, again. About the shaft, it seems that I have done an error in translation ori only haven't read exactly what was written. About the gas prices: currently I have to pay about 6.8 euro per gallon... About the driveshafts: Here in Germany we have only a small amount of shops that work on engines or other mechanical parts for cars. Repair or adapt is not wanted here since more than two decades. Here in Germany cars were produced and after three years "exported". Repairing is very expensive, of you can't do it by your own. Engines, transmissions and so on are components, that can't be repaired, they have to be replaced. It's a shame, that the Germans proclaim how they love the nature and how sustainable they are. But that's another point, that haven't anything to do with my mindset. I fear, that shorten and lengthen the driveshafts will cost about the same as the transmission itself... The linkage will be no problem for me to adopt. The ECU will also be no problem with the help of Bill and Gary. I've planed to switch to the EEC-V with MAF and SEFI some time ago. Combined with a holley HIGH-RAM EFI intake mainfold. Maybe some new heads in the future. I also have some good ideas for customized stainless steel exhaust mainfolds, but I have to do the CAD drawings, for what I need time, I currently don't have. The E4OD, I cam get is a 1991. The ECU may be a 1994? I don't know. Bill has to tell me, what ECU I need... Rene' ECU needs to be 1996 or later to get the EEC-V I am running a 1990 E4OD in Darth with no issues Darth is a 2WD as (a) Ford didn't build and F350 crew cab dually trucks in 4WD in 1986 and (b) I really didn't want a 4WD as Darth is enough of an issue parking and turning. If you see a 1986 crew cab dually that is 4WD it probably was a can and chassis that has had a pickup bed installed. As for highway RPM. Darth's engine is turning around 1600 at 70 MPH which is just loafing for a 460. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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