OUR NEW NAME AGAIN - PLEASE VOTE!

[AmericanSavage]

Bullnose Enthusiasts and Restorations

Brought to you by Gary’s Garage Mahal.

💪

 

[Gary Lewis]

Bullnose Enthusiasts and Restorations

Brought to you by Gary’s Garage Mahal.

💪

Time for an update. Basically I think we are not going to need to change our name. Instead, while we may wind up forming an LLC, I think we will only use that LLC's name on legal documents and maybe post it someplace on the website.

And if we do need to create an LLC then Oklahoma says "The name SHALL contain either the words limited liability company or limited company or the abbreviations LLC, LC, L.L.C. or L.C." So I think we could do anything we want and stick LLC behind it - and then only use it for official things.

Why do I say that? The paralegal from the lawyer called this morning and said that the lawyer doesn't think we qualify to be a 501C7, mainly due to the lack of fees. But he did want to discuss alternatives.

That got into a discussion of setting up a "Single Member LLC" in Oklahoma and filing as a "Disregarded Entity" for taxes using Schedule C. And that went way over my head! So after going back and forth a bit I suggested that I put together a note to them that explains a bit more about us and my thinking regarding the situation. Then the lawyer can come back with his recommendation.

So here's the email I sent them:

Candace - Thanks for the call this morning.

I've been expecting the answer to be that we really don't qualify to be a 501C7, especially on the fees vs gifts issue. Unfortunately we really aren't in a position to levy fees. The software we are using just doesn't have a function where we could do that. And with 2000+ members scattered all over the globe, some of which are no longer active, it just doesn't seem like the thing to do.

As background, I started this forum, and the associated documentation website, out of frustration with another forum that had gone "commercial" and had adverts unless you paid a fee. The adverts were annoying as they took up a lot of space on the screen, and if you were on a mobile device it made using the forum very difficult. So I started this one and vowed we wouldn't have adverts nor fees. And to this point I've funded the whole thing.

Heretofore the costs haven't been all that much, but now we need to change software platforms and the costs are going up. Fortunately several of the members have stepped up and said they'll help fund both the $1800 one-time migration as well as the anticipated $1000 annual costs. Plus, next week I turn 77 so the question of how long I'll be around to manage this raises its ugly head. So it seems like now is the time to set something up to that will allow the forum and website to stay around for the long haul.

Given that I've been doing some research. The gofundme website says that "Donations made to personal GoFundMe fundraisers are generally considered to be "personal gifts" which, for the most part, are not taxed as income in the United States. Additionally, these donations are not tax deductible for donors.". And other similar outfits say much the same thing. So I was thinking that I could set up a way for people to contribute and put those funds into a separate bank account from which I pay the costs. I already have a page on the website that shows what the costs are and I could put a "thermometer" on that page to show where we are re funding. Then behind the scenes I'd recruit someone to manage this when I can't and put his/her name on the bank account as well as the forum and website documents.

This seems so much easier than setting up a 501C7, having a board of directors with required annual meetings and voting, etc. But I also don't want to do something that is going to cause me tax problems, so would certainly appreciate your input.

[BigBrother-84]

Time for an update. Basically I think we are not going to need to change our name. Instead, while we may wind up forming an LLC, I think we will only use that LLC's name on legal documents and maybe post it someplace on the website.

And if we do need to create an LLC then Oklahoma says "The name SHALL contain either the words limited liability company or limited company or the abbreviations LLC, LC, L.L.C. or L.C." So I think we could do anything we want and stick LLC behind it - and then only use it for official things.

Why do I say that? The paralegal from the lawyer called this morning and said that the lawyer doesn't think we qualify to be a 501C7, mainly due to the lack of fees. But he did want to discuss alternatives.

That got into a discussion of setting up a "Single Member LLC" in Oklahoma and filing as a "Disregarded Entity" for taxes using Schedule C. And that went way over my head! So after going back and forth a bit I suggested that I put together a note to them that explains a bit more about us and my thinking regarding the situation. Then the lawyer can come back with his recommendation.

So here's the email I sent them:

Candace - Thanks for the call this morning.

I've been expecting the answer to be that we really don't qualify to be a 501C7, especially on the fees vs gifts issue. Unfortunately we really aren't in a position to levy fees. The software we are using just doesn't have a function where we could do that. And with 2000+ members scattered all over the globe, some of which are no longer active, it just doesn't seem like the thing to do.

As background, I started this forum, and the associated documentation website, out of frustration with another forum that had gone "commercial" and had adverts unless you paid a fee. The adverts were annoying as they took up a lot of space on the screen, and if you were on a mobile device it made using the forum very difficult. So I started this one and vowed we wouldn't have adverts nor fees. And to this point I've funded the whole thing.

Heretofore the costs haven't been all that much, but now we need to change software platforms and the costs are going up. Fortunately several of the members have stepped up and said they'll help fund both the $1800 one-time migration as well as the anticipated $1000 annual costs. Plus, next week I turn 77 so the question of how long I'll be around to manage this raises its ugly head. So it seems like now is the time to set something up to that will allow the forum and website to stay around for the long haul.

Given that I've been doing some research. The gofundme website says that "Donations made to personal GoFundMe fundraisers are generally considered to be "personal gifts" which, for the most part, are not taxed as income in the United States. Additionally, these donations are not tax deductible for donors.". And other similar outfits say much the same thing. So I was thinking that I could set up a way for people to contribute and put those funds into a separate bank account from which I pay the costs. I already have a page on the website that shows what the costs are and I could put a "thermometer" on that page to show where we are re funding. Then behind the scenes I'd recruit someone to manage this when I can't and put his/her name on the bank account as well as the forum and website documents.

This seems so much easier than setting up a 501C7, having a board of directors with required annual meetings and voting, etc. But I also don't want to do something that is going to cause me tax problems, so would certainly appreciate your input.

Someone said «Why make it simple when we can make it complicated.»

[AmericanSavage]

Time for an update. Basically I think we are not going to need to change our name. Instead, while we may wind up forming an LLC, I think we will only use that LLC's name on legal documents and maybe post it someplace on the website.

And if we do need to create an LLC then Oklahoma says "The name SHALL contain either the words limited liability company or limited company or the abbreviations LLC, LC, L.L.C. or L.C." So I think we could do anything we want and stick LLC behind it - and then only use it for official things.

Why do I say that? The paralegal from the lawyer called this morning and said that the lawyer doesn't think we qualify to be a 501C7, mainly due to the lack of fees. But he did want to discuss alternatives.

That got into a discussion of setting up a "Single Member LLC" in Oklahoma and filing as a "Disregarded Entity" for taxes using Schedule C. And that went way over my head! So after going back and forth a bit I suggested that I put together a note to them that explains a bit more about us and my thinking regarding the situation. Then the lawyer can come back with his recommendation.

So here's the email I sent them:

Candace - Thanks for the call this morning.

I've been expecting the answer to be that we really don't qualify to be a 501C7, especially on the fees vs gifts issue. Unfortunately we really aren't in a position to levy fees. The software we are using just doesn't have a function where we could do that. And with 2000+ members scattered all over the globe, some of which are no longer active, it just doesn't seem like the thing to do.

As background, I started this forum, and the associated documentation website, out of frustration with another forum that had gone "commercial" and had adverts unless you paid a fee. The adverts were annoying as they took up a lot of space on the screen, and if you were on a mobile device it made using the forum very difficult. So I started this one and vowed we wouldn't have adverts nor fees. And to this point I've funded the whole thing.

Heretofore the costs haven't been all that much, but now we need to change software platforms and the costs are going up. Fortunately several of the members have stepped up and said they'll help fund both the $1800 one-time migration as well as the anticipated $1000 annual costs. Plus, next week I turn 77 so the question of how long I'll be around to manage this raises its ugly head. So it seems like now is the time to set something up to that will allow the forum and website to stay around for the long haul.

Given that I've been doing some research. The gofundme website says that "Donations made to personal GoFundMe fundraisers are generally considered to be "personal gifts" which, for the most part, are not taxed as income in the United States. Additionally, these donations are not tax deductible for donors.". And other similar outfits say much the same thing. So I was thinking that I could set up a way for people to contribute and put those funds into a separate bank account from which I pay the costs. I already have a page on the website that shows what the costs are and I could put a "thermometer" on that page to show where we are re funding. Then behind the scenes I'd recruit someone to manage this when I can't and put his/her name on the bank account as well as the forum and website documents.

This seems so much easier than setting up a 501C7, having a board of directors with required annual meetings and voting, etc. But I also don't want to do something that is going to cause me tax problems, so would certainly appreciate your input.

I may have missed this, but why not a 501c3?

[Gary Lewis]

I may have missed this, but why not a 501c3?

The lawyer says we must have some fees or dues, not just contributions. We don't have a mechanism via which to collect fees, so that's not going to work.

But 501C7 requires annual meetings, voting of at least a quorum, which they've never seen less than 10%, etc. Lots of hoops to jump through, and it doesn't seem like something that someone would want to take on after I can no longer do it. So I'm looking for an easier path.

[Gary Lewis]

The lawyer says we must have some fees or dues, not just contributions. We don't have a mechanism via which to collect fees, so that's not going to work.

But 501C7 requires annual meetings, voting of at least a quorum, which they've never seen less than 10%, etc. Lots of hoops to jump through, and it doesn't seem like something that someone would want to take on after I can no longer do it. So I'm looking for an easier path.

One more round with the lawyer. Here's their take on GoFundMe or something like that:

Gary:

In order to properly set up a GoFundMe site, the organizer has to represent that no goods or services are being provided in exchange for services. The technical services/upgrades of the website forum constitute goods or services; additionally, the persons making donations are not strangers to the organizer. Instead, they also benefit from participation in the activity, and from the improvements, as they would if they were members in c/7. It would appear that setting up GFM might be a challenge, and even if that were to happen payments made to it could be found taxable to the organizer, upon close scrutiny. A general exception is if the GFM campaign is for medical expenses. If so, the receipt of the funds usually isn’t taxable income and still not deductible to the donors. (Same for Kickstarter) If for business or anything exchanged for value, almost always taxable income to recipient.

They gave me links where I could verify their conclusion, and I agree with them.

But, they also said that they see no reason to form an LLC. All that does is shield you in case someone sues, and they don't see any reason anyone would sue. Given that they recommend operating as a sole proprietor, of which the IRS says "A sole proprietor is someone who owns an unincorporated business by themselves."

There are several things that can be done, including taking out a tradename, getting an Employee Identification Number, and setting up a bank account. But the first thing to do is to talk to the bank and see if they even need an EIN in order to set up a bank account. They may let me set one up using my SSN, in which case the other things aren't required.

Then when I file our taxes I file a Schedule C 1040 and show the income and the expenses. If they net to zero, which is the hope, then there is no additional tax.

So Monday I'll go talk with our bank and see what I can do. If I can get a bank account set up then I'll let y'all know how to send money to it and then contact Invision to get the migration started.

[BigBrother-84]

One more round with the lawyer. Here's their take on GoFundMe or something like that:

Gary:

In order to properly set up a GoFundMe site, the organizer has to represent that no goods or services are being provided in exchange for services. The technical services/upgrades of the website forum constitute goods or services; additionally, the persons making donations are not strangers to the organizer. Instead, they also benefit from participation in the activity, and from the improvements, as they would if they were members in c/7. It would appear that setting up GFM might be a challenge, and even if that were to happen payments made to it could be found taxable to the organizer, upon close scrutiny. A general exception is if the GFM campaign is for medical expenses. If so, the receipt of the funds usually isn’t taxable income and still not deductible to the donors. (Same for Kickstarter) If for business or anything exchanged for value, almost always taxable income to recipient.

They gave me links where I could verify their conclusion, and I agree with them.

But, they also said that they see no reason to form an LLC. All that does is shield you in case someone sues, and they don't see any reason anyone would sue. Given that they recommend operating as a sole proprietor, of which the IRS says "A sole proprietor is someone who owns an unincorporated business by themselves."

There are several things that can be done, including taking out a tradename, getting an Employee Identification Number, and setting up a bank account. But the first thing to do is to talk to the bank and see if they even need an EIN in order to set up a bank account. They may let me set one up using my SSN, in which case the other things aren't required.

Then when I file our taxes I file a Schedule C 1040 and show the income and the expenses. If they net to zero, which is the hope, then there is no additional tax.

So Monday I'll go talk with our bank and see what I can do. If I can get a bank account set up then I'll let y'all know how to send money to it and then contact Invision to get the migration started.

Thanks Gary for all the time you put in this search!

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks Gary for all the time you put in this search!

Welcome, Jeff.

It really has taken a lot of time. Discussing things with our friend who suggested 501c7 status, reading up on what that would take, trying to write a charter & bylaws, finding two outfits online that said they'd do that for free but then wanted real money, finding a local lawyer to do it & providing the information they requested, learning we might not qualify for 501C7, providing more info, finding we don't qualify, researching GoFundMe, researching LLC's, discussing GFM & LLC's with the lawyer, etc.

I'm glad I documented most of that in this thread so I can get back to it should people ask. But now we have a fairly simple and straight forward path and we should be able to survive for the long haul. Keep on trucking!

[AmericanSavage]

Welcome, Jeff.

It really has taken a lot of time. Discussing things with our friend who suggested 501c7 status, reading up on what that would take, trying to write a charter & bylaws, finding two outfits online that said they'd do that for free but then wanted real money, finding a local lawyer to do it & providing the information they requested, learning we might not qualify for 501C7, providing more info, finding we don't qualify, researching GoFundMe, researching LLC's, discussing GFM & LLC's with the lawyer, etc.

I'm glad I documented most of that in this thread so I can get back to it should people ask. But now we have a fairly simple and straight forward path and we should be able to survive for the long haul. Keep on trucking!

Thanks Gary for ALL you do.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks Gary for ALL you do.

We have a bank account!!!! It is a sole proprietor business account in my name "doing business as" Bullnose Enthusiasts. There are several things to work out, such as how you'uns do PayPal, Venmo, or whatever to it, but it isn't to send it to me via my email address as that would put the money in the wrong account.

So I'll get those details worked out and post it up in another announcement thread as well as in this one.

However, one of the ways to take donations is by using Invision's e-commerce services, which are included if we go with their Creator package instead of the current Beginner package. That's $89/mo instead of $55/mo, but includes lots of things, like blogs, galleries, and what looks to be the ability to have web pages.

The web pages bit might be something we want to do as I'm told it is much better than Weebly, so I'm investigating it.