Big Blue's Chuckling Noise In Steering Column

[viven44]

I'm a bit confused about this as well. But you can see where I worked on this part of the truck starting in this post.

There are actually two shafts inside the steering column, the one the steering wheel attaches to and the one that the lower shaft attaches to. Those two slide inside/outside each other to provide the collapsing part of the column.

I pulled the lower one out when I installed the new lower bearing as it wouldn't go over the distorted lower end of the shaft. I had to put that shaft in the lathe and take out the distortion that was in it, as you can see in that post. But now there is some slop in the shaft/bearing and it clunks there - as well as moves up and down as shown in the video.

So I'm going to have to pull the Borgeson shaft, new lower bearing, and lower shaft out and figure out why there is slop. I have another lower shaft and may wind up using it. Or weld this one up and turn it back to just fit the bearing.

As you can see in the picture below, one of the allen bolts on the Borgeson goes through a hole in that shaft, so there's not much way to move the Borgeson up to ride against the inner race on the lower bearing. So I'm wondering about creating a shim so there's no up/down movement on the shaft.

Ok that makes sense. I didn’t recall the inner shaft being a 2 piece as well. It’s been a long time since I rebuilt the columns on my barnfinds. The automatic ones have all kinds of failure modes (shift housing cracking, internal rivets breaking, etc).. I have never been inside a manual/non-tilt so just guessing totally….

[Gary Lewis]

Ok that makes sense. I didn’t recall the inner shaft being a 2 piece as well. It’s been a long time since I rebuilt the columns on my barnfinds. The automatic ones have all kinds of failure modes (shift housing cracking, internal rivets breaking, etc).. I have never been inside a manual/non-tilt so just guessing totally….

My confusion is probably because of that inner/outer shaft. If they slipped over each other easily then pulling up on the steering wheel wouldn't cause the other one to move - unless the friction of them sliding is greater than the friction between the lower shaft and the lower bearing. Which I'm guessing is the case.

So if I were to put a shim between the Borgeson and the lower bearing the steering wheel may still come up the same amount, but the movement will be between the inner and outer shaft. I think I'll do that as a test as I think a paint scraper may be about the right thickness, and then I'll know.

But the clearance between the lower shaft and the lower bearing has increased since I put all of that together because now I have a clunk when I pull & push up/down on the shaft.

[viven44]

My confusion is probably because of that inner/outer shaft. If they slipped over each other easily then pulling up on the steering wheel wouldn't cause the other one to move - unless the friction of them sliding is greater than the friction between the lower shaft and the lower bearing. Which I'm guessing is the case.

So if I were to put a shim between the Borgeson and the lower bearing the steering wheel may still come up the same amount, but the movement will be between the inner and outer shaft. I think I'll do that as a test as I think a paint scraper may be about the right thickness, and then I'll know.

But the clearance between the lower shaft and the lower bearing has increased since I put all of that together because now I have a clunk when I pull & push up/down on the shaft.

Here is a busted Auto/Tilt shaft that came off an 85 Bronco. I assume yours doesn’t have the upper U joint, but the upper and lower portions have considerable friction as the coupling between them has a couple of compression “sleeves”. I had to tap them apart with an “implement”.

The friction is so much so that the only way I have removed the shaft in the past is whole.. did not even know until now it is 2 piece :) In the past, I removed the lower end bearing which is secured by those three 1/4 inch nuts, the plastic housing off the lower shaft, removed the steering wheel, and snap ring, maybe a few other things.. don't recall exactly what else as its been too long... and the whole shaft just pulls out...

[viven44]

My confusion is probably because of that inner/outer shaft. If they slipped over each other easily then pulling up on the steering wheel wouldn't cause the other one to move - unless the friction of them sliding is greater than the friction between the lower shaft and the lower bearing. Which I'm guessing is the case.

So if I were to put a shim between the Borgeson and the lower bearing the steering wheel may still come up the same amount, but the movement will be between the inner and outer shaft. I think I'll do that as a test as I think a paint scraper may be about the right thickness, and then I'll know.

But the clearance between the lower shaft and the lower bearing has increased since I put all of that together because now I have a clunk when I pull & push up/down on the shaft.

One more low-hanging fruit to check. Are these 3 screws all the way tight ? I don't know how/if they have an influence on the shaft but just another thought.

Really also think it has to do with the new bearing /housing and borgenson shaft rubbing against each other. A lot of metal of metal squeak is what I hear. The original bearing and surround is a "plastic" ?

Has the bearing worn down possibly rubbing against the shaft ? If you measure the ID, and compare it to previous that might help. There is possibly an "adaptation" to prevent that for a Borgensen.

[Gary Lewis]

One more low-hanging fruit to check. Are these 3 screws all the way tight ? I don't know how/if they have an influence on the shaft but just another thought.

Really also think it has to do with the new bearing /housing and borgenson shaft rubbing against each other. A lot of metal of metal squeak is what I hear. The original bearing and surround is a "plastic" ?

Has the bearing worn down possibly rubbing against the shaft ? If you measure the ID, and compare it to previous that might help. There is possibly an "adaptation" to prevent that for a Borgensen.

Not sure where those three screws are.

As for the noise, it is when the shaft in the steering column is pushed up through the new bearing. So it is the outer diameter of the lower shaft rubbing on the inner race of the bearing. I'm confident that a squirt of lube would stop the noise - for a while.

It doesn't have anything to do with the Borgeson shaft as it isn't touching the bearing until the shaft stops when the Borgeson hits the bearing. But the noise happens before those two hit, so it has to be the inner shaft rubbing on the ID of the inner race of the bearing.

But the shaft is slightly too small for the inner race so there's a bit of a clunk there. I'm going to make the shaft just the right size for the bearing to slip on with a bit of help so there's no clunk. And that will probably mean there will be no movement there, so no noise.

 

[BigBrother-84]

Not sure where those three screws are.

As for the noise, it is when the shaft in the steering column is pushed up through the new bearing. So it is the outer diameter of the lower shaft rubbing on the inner race of the bearing. I'm confident that a squirt of lube would stop the noise - for a while.

It doesn't have anything to do with the Borgeson shaft as it isn't touching the bearing until the shaft stops when the Borgeson hits the bearing. But the noise happens before those two hit, so it has to be the inner shaft rubbing on the ID of the inner race of the bearing.

But the shaft is slightly too small for the inner race so there's a bit of a clunk there. I'm going to make the shaft just the right size for the bearing to slip on with a bit of help so there's no clunk. And that will probably mean there will be no movement there, so no noise.

Gary, looking at the second video, it looks like if the bolt is hitting the bearing assy, when you pull up the steering?

If so, can a thick (and enough smooth) rubber gasket do the job, if placed between the two?

[viven44]

Not sure where those three screws are.

As for the noise, it is when the shaft in the steering column is pushed up through the new bearing. So it is the outer diameter of the lower shaft rubbing on the inner race of the bearing. I'm confident that a squirt of lube would stop the noise - for a while.

It doesn't have anything to do with the Borgeson shaft as it isn't touching the bearing until the shaft stops when the Borgeson hits the bearing. But the noise happens before those two hit, so it has to be the inner shaft rubbing on the ID of the inner race of the bearing.

But the shaft is slightly too small for the inner race so there's a bit of a clunk there. I'm going to make the shaft just the right size for the bearing to slip on with a bit of help so there's no clunk. And that will probably mean there will be no movement there, so no noise.

Sounds like you have very little margin. You ground the shaft originally on the lathe as it was too big for the bearing, correct ? But then its too loose now which is why I wonder if it was loose from day 1 you fit the new bearing/shaft or if it has become loose due to constant rubbing and wear-down.

Just curious.. Does the Borgeson (I've finally spelt it correctly!) shaft have built-in dampening similar to a rag joint and the 2 piece construction of the factory intermediate shaft ? If so, ignore my comments about it having anything to do with this problem.

[Gary Lewis]

Sounds like you have very little margin. You ground the shaft originally on the lathe as it was too big for the bearing, correct ? But then its too loose now which is why I wonder if it was loose from day 1 you fit the new bearing/shaft or if it has become loose due to constant rubbing and wear-down.

Just curious.. Does the Borgeson (I've finally spelt it correctly!) shaft have built-in dampening similar to a rag joint and the 2 piece construction of the factory intermediate shaft ? If so, ignore my comments about it having anything to do with this problem.

Jeff - I don't think the nut on the screw is hitting, but I'll check. I think parallax is the issue as the camera was farther back and makes it look like it hits. But my eye was more straight down and it didn't look to hit. Still, I'll check.

Vivek - My Borgeson doesn't have damping, but there is one that does. However, the noise happens when the lower shaft in the column slides up/down through the lower bearing, not when the shaft moves quickly in rotation, which is what the damping prevents. So I don't think this has anything to do with the Borgeson.

It appears to have everything to do with the lower shaft in the column. Your earlier pic shows the pieces in the interface between the upper and lower shaft that prevent vibration there, and that's surely why when I pull up on the steering wheel the two shafts move together rather than just the upper shaft sliding in the lower shaft.

But if the lower shaft was a tight fit in the bearing then the movement would be between the two shafts. And/or if the Borgeson was up against the inner race of the bearing it couldn't move.

So I plan to pull the Borgeson and the lower shaft out and re-work the shaft so there's a tight fit with the bearing. That'll both take the axial movement out, eliminating the chuckle, but also take out the side/side movement that is making a clunk.

As for the possibility of it having worn, the shaft isn't completely straight so when I turned it on the lathe the results weren't perfect. By that I mean it was tight here, loose there, etc. And apparently it is loose where it is currently meeting the bearing. So my re-work will require either a different shaft, which I have, or building this one up by welding so I can turn it back smooth and straight.

[viven44]

Jeff - I don't think the nut on the screw is hitting, but I'll check. I think parallax is the issue as the camera was farther back and makes it look like it hits. But my eye was more straight down and it didn't look to hit. Still, I'll check.

Vivek - My Borgeson doesn't have damping, but there is one that does. However, the noise happens when the lower shaft in the column slides up/down through the lower bearing, not when the shaft moves quickly in rotation, which is what the damping prevents. So I don't think this has anything to do with the Borgeson.

It appears to have everything to do with the lower shaft in the column. Your earlier pic shows the pieces in the interface between the upper and lower shaft that prevent vibration there, and that's surely why when I pull up on the steering wheel the two shafts move together rather than just the upper shaft sliding in the lower shaft.

But if the lower shaft was a tight fit in the bearing then the movement would be between the two shafts. And/or if the Borgeson was up against the inner race of the bearing it couldn't move.

So I plan to pull the Borgeson and the lower shaft out and re-work the shaft so there's a tight fit with the bearing. That'll both take the axial movement out, eliminating the chuckle, but also take out the side/side movement that is making a clunk.

As for the possibility of it having worn, the shaft isn't completely straight so when I turned it on the lathe the results weren't perfect. By that I mean it was tight here, loose there, etc. And apparently it is loose where it is currently meeting the bearing. So my re-work will require either a different shaft, which I have, or building this one up by welding so I can turn it back smooth and straight.

The shaft I have was going to go in the trash pile but I kept it just in case, if you ever run into a situation where your spare isn't usable and need another let me know I will ship it. I still owe you for your trip down to Dallas!

[mat in tn]

The shaft I have was going to go in the trash pile but I kept it just in case, if you ever run into a situation where your spare isn't usable and need another let me know I will ship it. I still owe you for your trip down to Dallas!

the upper and lower sections of the center shaft are a designed default. they should be tight and are not telescopic in use. it is a crumple zone to reduce impact on the driver in a front-end collision. it works in conjunction with the breakaway aluminum column mount. all movements up or down are caried by the bearings in the upper part of the column. two plastic caged roller bearings held in recesses in the housing by a snap ring. this is also why the lower sector between the gear and column is telescopic. some have installed two borgesons with solid shaft in between defeating the telescopic action without this consideration. it happens a lot in hot rods.