Gary's "Nothing Special" Moab trip

[BigBrother-84]

Dyneema is one of the most well-known brands, and it's typically called that or just synthetic rope. It doesn't store energy as well as steel when it's in tension, and it's much lighter, so it slows down quickly when it does shoot. As a result it comes the closest to just dropping when something breaks.

[Gary Lewis]

Dyneema is one of the most well-known brands, and it's typically called that or just synthetic rope. It doesn't store energy as well as steel when it's in tension, and it's much lighter, so it slows down quickly when it does shoot. As a result it comes the closest to just dropping when something breaks.

Sorry guys, Janey and I've been watching movies to celebrate her knew-found freedom and I missed your posts.

But Bob is exactly right, as always. You sure don't want to put that much pull on a drop hitch. Instead my recovery point is a direct pull and is solid. Plus my winch line is synthetic. I think we are good.

[Nothing Special]

Sorry guys, Janey and I've been watching movies to celebrate her knew-found freedom and I missed your posts.

But Bob is exactly right, as always. You sure don't want to put that much pull on a drop hitch. Instead my recovery point is a direct pull and is solid. Plus my winch line is synthetic. I think we are good.

I found another Top of the World video that I THINK will help you get a better perspective on it. I say "THINK" because of a few caveats...

These guys are overlanders, not rock crawlers. They say that several times. And they were told that this trail was just an easy drive. So they were surprised at how difficult it was. But keep in mind that this was difficult based on their experience and expectations. I know you aren't experienced in this, but I am, so we're probably in better shape than they were. And we're expecting it to be a real rock-crawling trail. I'm not saying it's a HARD rock-crawling trail. But I think you'll agree I haven't been selling it as "an easy drive" either. So it'll be a challenge, but it'll be a good challenge!

Another caveat is one I've given on most of these videos. The parts of the trail that they seem to have the most trouble with are from about 12:00 to 24:20. That's the back side of the "lollipop" top of the trail. I'm expecting we'll skip that by coming back down the front side (the way they went up). (They call this a lollipop trail, with a "stick" up to a loop at the top and then back down the stick)

With those caveats, they are in a couple of vehicles that I think are probably less capable than Big Blue, and they make it relatively easily. There's a white Fourunner that sits a lot lower than Big Blue, it's on 33s and doesn't seem to have any lockers (definitely no front locker). They get pretty worried about his bumper a few times (especially on the back of the lollipop), but really never do anything worse than dragging skid plates or the hitch. The other is a Tacoma on 35s, but also no lockers and not much lift.

So if you turn off the sound (to avoid their comments about how much harder it is compared to what they had expected) and skip from 12:00 to 24:20 (which we won't be on) it'll look like a cake walk!

Also they talk about the trail taking them 11 hours and finishing after dark. It's a long trail, but it only took us about 6 hours (plus the 2 hours from and to Moab on the highway). I think at times they were held up by a big group. And they definitely took a lot of time coming down the back of the lollipop.

[Gary Lewis]

I found another Top of the World video that I THINK will help you get a better perspective on it. I say "THINK" because of a few caveats...

These guys are overlanders, not rock crawlers. They say that several times. And they were told that this trail was just an easy drive. So they were surprised at how difficult it was. But keep in mind that this was difficult based on their experience and expectations. I know you aren't experienced in this, but I am, so we're probably in better shape than they were. And we're expecting it to be a real rock-crawling trail. I'm not saying it's a HARD rock-crawling trail. But I think you'll agree I haven't been selling it as "an easy drive" either. So it'll be a challenge, but it'll be a good challenge!

Another caveat is one I've given on most of these videos. The parts of the trail that they seem to have the most trouble with are from about 12:00 to 24:20. That's the back side of the "lollipop" top of the trail. I'm expecting we'll skip that by coming back down the front side (the way they went up). (They call this a lollipop trail, with a "stick" up to a loop at the top and then back down the stick)

With those caveats, they are in a couple of vehicles that I think are probably less capable than Big Blue, and they make it relatively easily. There's a white Fourunner that sits a lot lower than Big Blue, it's on 33s and doesn't seem to have any lockers (definitely no front locker). They get pretty worried about his bumper a few times (especially on the back of the lollipop), but really never do anything worse than dragging skid plates or the hitch. The other is a Tacoma on 35s, but also no lockers and not much lift.

So if you turn off the sound (to avoid their comments about how much harder it is compared to what they had expected) and skip from 12:00 to 24:20 (which we won't be on) it'll look like a cake walk!

Also they talk about the trail taking them 11 hours and finishing after dark. It's a long trail, but it only took us about 6 hours (plus the 2 hours from and to Moab on the highway). I think at times they were held up by a big group. And they definitely took a lot of time coming down the back of the lollipop.

Ok, I'm watching and taking notes.

Yes, some of their vehicles aren't quite as capable as BB, but my approach angle probably isn't as good as theirs. So it will be an interesting day.

But I don't want that guy to be my cook as he doesn't know a hot dog from an hamburger.

And that section coming down the backside of the lollipop definitely looks like something to skip! I'll pass.

"Right now the camera is totally level, and you are at ... a pretty big angle."

This is not something I think I should show Janey. Not sure she will understand that we aren't doing the backside of the lollipop, but maybe?

Overall, that looks like a real challenge, but I think we can do it.

Speaking of rocks and sliding (we weren't?), I don't actually have rock sliders. I just have aluminum step bars. I'm wondering if I should think about making sliders? I could use the mounts, which are STRONG, and go from there.

[Nothing Special]

Ok, I'm watching and taking notes.

Yes, some of their vehicles aren't quite as capable as BB, but my approach angle probably isn't as good as theirs. So it will be an interesting day.

But I don't want that guy to be my cook as he doesn't know a hot dog from an hamburger.

And that section coming down the backside of the lollipop definitely looks like something to skip! I'll pass.

"Right now the camera is totally level, and you are at ... a pretty big angle."

This is not something I think I should show Janey. Not sure she will understand that we aren't doing the backside of the lollipop, but maybe?

Overall, that looks like a real challenge, but I think we can do it.

Speaking of rocks and sliding (we weren't?), I don't actually have rock sliders. I just have aluminum step bars. I'm wondering if I should think about making sliders? I could use the mounts, which are STRONG, and go from there.

If you choose to show Janey the video you could completely skip the part we aren't doing, explaining that we aren't doing that so there's no need for her to see it. You know her much better than I do, so I'll let you make the call!

On the rock sliders, it's up to you. On the one 'wheeling trip I took with my stock '85 F-250HD, clearance at the rocker panels wasn't an issue. Dragging the rear bumper and hitting the diffs were common occurrences, but not the rockers. Actual sliders might add some peace of mind, but if it's just for this one trip I think we'll be able to keep you off your rocker... er, I mean off your rockers!

[Gary Lewis]

If you choose to show Janey the video you could completely skip the part we aren't doing, explaining that we aren't doing that so there's no need for her to see it. You know her much better than I do, so I'll let you make the call!

On the rock sliders, it's up to you. On the one 'wheeling trip I took with my stock '85 F-250HD, clearance at the rocker panels wasn't an issue. Dragging the rear bumper and hitting the diffs were common occurrences, but not the rockers. Actual sliders might add some peace of mind, but if it's just for this one trip I think we'll be able to keep you off your rocker... er, I mean off your rockers!

Too late, some say I'm already off my rocker.

Yes, I could show Janey and tell her we aren't doing that bit so we'll skip ahead. In fact, I can show her the book and the lollipop with the side we aren't doing that says "This side of loop is extremely difficult" and explain that we aren't doing that.

On the sliders, if we can stay off the rocker then I'm ok. Even if I scrape or bend the bottom of one of the steps I'm fine. One of them already had a scrape when I got them so it wouldn't be a huge loss.

In fact, I'd toyed with doing that already. I saw a Youtube where a guy bent a piece of square tubing in a smooth bend by slicing wedges out of it and then rewelding it. But instead of then sucking that up to the bracket with a 3/4" bolt I'd weld the tubing to the bracket. Would be quite solid.

 

[BigBrother-84]

Too late, some say I'm already off my rocker.

Yes, I could show Janey and tell her we aren't doing that bit so we'll skip ahead. In fact, I can show her the book and the lollipop with the side we aren't doing that says "This side of loop is extremely difficult" and explain that we aren't doing that.

On the sliders, if we can stay off the rocker then I'm ok. Even if I scrape or bend the bottom of one of the steps I'm fine. One of them already had a scrape when I got them so it wouldn't be a huge loss.

In fact, I'd toyed with doing that already. I saw a Youtube where a guy bent a piece of square tubing in a smooth bend by slicing wedges out of it and then rewelding it. But instead of then sucking that up to the bracket with a 3/4" bolt I'd weld the tubing to the bracket. Would be quite solid.

Amazing!

I am wondering about what he means about “aluminum skid plates”, looks like a normal add-on, that any good overlander would know…

Do we understand that he added some plates under his truck? To protect what, aren’t the most sensitive under-truck parts the drive shaft and the axles/differential/transfer case?

And why to choose aluminium as material, isn’t much less resistant than steel?

I am curious about how these plates would look.

 

[Gary Lewis]

Amazing!

I am wondering about what he means about “aluminum skid plates”, looks like a normal add-on, that any good overlander would know…

Do we understand that he added some plates under his truck? To protect what, aren’t the most sensitive under-truck parts the drive shaft and the axles/differential/transfer case?

And why to choose aluminium as material, isn’t much less resistant than steel?

I am curious about how these plates would look.

You don't have skid plates on Big Bro? Both Big Blue and Dad's truck have steel skid plates that cover the transfer case and both gas tanks.

As for aluminum, there is some really serious aluminum available. As a kid my family had a cabin in the Oklahoma woods on the Grand River. Across the river was what the locals called the Powder Plant where during WWII a lot of ammunition was made. Pryor Creek cut through it and when the river was really high there was enough water to take our boat up into the plant.

The first thing we noticed was a gate with barbed wire that, when closed, would go to the bottom of the creek. The second thing was a road just inside the fence and I could imagine a Jeep with a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on it patrolling the road.

Then we found the scrap pile. Lots of neat stuff, including pieces of aluminum we thought we could use, so we took two small pieces. When we got it home we tried to drill it and just succeeded in dulling our bits. That stuff was so hard we finally gave up and threw it away.

I have no idea what alloy it was, but it was very light and felt like aluminum. But it wouldn't bend nor drill worth a hoot, so wasn't useful to us. But it would make great skid plates.

[Nothing Special]

You don't have skid plates on Big Bro? Both Big Blue and Dad's truck have steel skid plates that cover the transfer case and both gas tanks....

I know that skid plates were an option on the F-250HD in '85, because I ordered one new (I did get the skid plates). But I don't know how often the option was chosen.

I kind of wonder if the people in that video actually know what skid plates are too. In at least one place he's dragging his aluminum side step / running board / psuedo rock slider and the spotter says "it's just your skid plate".

But yes, there are three primary materials used for skid plates: steel, aluminum and a plastic (sorry, I don't know the specific plastic, but it's something that's used in commercial kitchen cutting boards).

Steel is most common. It's cheap, easy to work with and strong. It's also pretty good at not getting hung up on rocks.

Aluminum is next most common. It's light, which is a good thing in a rock crawler (taking stress off suspension and driveline components) and a very good thing in an overlander (which are usually loaded well over their GVWR with roof-top tents, refrigerators and other comforts of home). It's also quite strong. I don't know for sure about the grade of aluminum they use (I doubt it's as good as the military stuff Gary mentioned), but I know that aluminum canoes will catch and gouge when they drag on rocks, so I pretty strongly suspect aluminum skid plates will catch worse than steel.

I don't know that I've ever seen a commercially available plastic skid plate, but I have seen vehicles featured in magazines where the owner built a plastic skid plate. They are very light and very slippery. They are a little harder to work with (you can't bend them well and can't weld at all), so they are usually used where everything has been tucked up so high in the chassis that a flat sheet can be bolted to the bottom of the frame. It's also not that strong so it needs to be thicker (like maybe 1"?) so it hurts ground clearance (but who cares when you're running 40" tires or bigger).

[Nothing Special]

You don't have skid plates on Big Bro? Both Big Blue and Dad's truck have steel skid plates that cover the transfer case and both gas tanks....

I know that skid plates were an option on the F-250HD in '85, because I ordered one new (I did get the skid plates). But I don't know how often the option was chosen.

I kind of wonder if the people in that video actually know what skid plates are too. In at least one place he's dragging his aluminum side step / running board / psuedo rock slider and the spotter says "it's just your skid plate".

But yes, there are three primary materials used for skid plates: steel, aluminum and a plastic (sorry, I don't know the specific plastic, but it's something that's used in commercial kitchen cutting boards).

Steel is most common. It's cheap, easy to work with and strong. It's also pretty good at not getting hung up on rocks.

Aluminum is next most common. It's light, which is a good thing in a rock crawler (taking stress off suspension and driveline components) and a very good thing in an overlander (which are usually loaded well over their GVWR with roof-top tents, refrigerators and other comforts of home). It's also quite strong. I don't know for sure about the grade of aluminum they use (I doubt it's as good as the military stuff Gary mentioned), but I know that aluminum canoes will catch and gouge when they drag on rocks, so I pretty strongly suspect aluminum skid plates will catch worse than steel.

I don't know that I've ever seen a commercially available plastic skid plate, but I have seen vehicles featured in magazines where the owner built a plastic skid plate. They are very light and very slippery. They are a little harder to work with (you can't bend them well and can't weld at all), so they are usually used where everything has been tucked up so high in the chassis that a flat sheet can be bolted to the bottom of the frame. It's also not that strong so it needs to be thicker (like maybe 1"?) so it hurts ground clearance (but who cares when you're running 40" tires or bigger).

Oh, and as Gary said, the transfer case and gas tanks are the most common things to be protected by skid plates. Transmissions and oil pans are probably next most common.

Anything after that gets pretty specialized. You can't really put skid plates under the drive shaft (they'd hang down too far and there's nothing convenient to mount them to). But people do add parts to the snout of the differential to protect the U-joint at that end. Sometime steering boxes or the bottom of the radiator get protection.