Gary Lewis Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 Some of you may remember a problem I had where I bricked the EEC-V computer on Big Blue and had to have Core Tuning log on and fix it. Turns out I was trying to use two USB-A ports on the tablet I had then to run the Binary Editor dongle, the Mongoose cable, and logging connector. And to do that I was using a USB-A port expander, to get the three USB-A ports needed, but something in that setup was not fast enough and apparently the write to the ECU was corrupted. After that I bought this Dell laptop with three USB-A ports and all was well. But now the hinge is failing on the lid to this laptop and instead of repairing it, if that could be done, I'm considering replacing it. And I have discovered that finding another laptop or tablet with three USB-A ports is very difficult if not impossible. So I have a plan I want to run past y'all. I'm finding that there are plenty of machines with two USB-C/Thunderbolt 4 ports, and there are good port expanders that create multiple USB-A ports from a single USB-C port. So my thinking is: Logging: When logging, which requires three USB-A ports, I'll run a port expander off of one USB-C port and all should be well since there's no writing to the ECU. Writing: When I write to the ECU I'll disconnect the logging cable and use both USB-ports through a USB-C/USB-A converter for the Binary Editor dongle and the Mongoose cable. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 Gary, I use a dual boot older MacBook Pro. I use one of the two USB ports for the Mongoose and the other with a port expander for the dongle, Mouse and Wideband O2 sensor input if needed. The Mongoose needs a dedicated port so there is no other traffic on it (Per Adam Marrer). I learned the hard way on Darth, got a totally corrupt load, but was able to rewrite it. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 Gary, I use a dual boot older MacBook Pro. I use one of the two USB ports for the Mongoose and the other with a port expander for the dongle, Mouse and Wideband O2 sensor input if needed. The Mongoose needs a dedicated port so there is no other traffic on it (Per Adam Marrer). I learned the hard way on Darth, got a totally corrupt load, but was able to rewrite it. Bill Perfect. So just the Mongoose needs to be dedicated. I’m looking at a Surface Pro 9 tablet and it has two USB-C/Thunderport 4’s, so I can put a USB-C/USB-A converter on one port and a port expander on the other. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 Perfect. So just the Mongoose needs to be dedicated. I’m looking at a Surface Pro 9 tablet and it has two USB-C/Thunderport 4’s, so I can put a USB-C/USB-A converter on one port and a port expander on the other. Thanks! Well, at this point the above doesn't appear to be true. Just spent considerable time on the phone with two different techs at OPUS, the people that make the Mongoose cable, and they cannot get the Mongoose to work through either of my two different USB-C/A converters. The acid test is to connect the Mongoose cable to a vehicle with the key on and to the computer. Then open up Device Manager (right-click the Windows logo) and scroll all the way to the bottom of the list. There at the very bottom you should find Vehicle Passthrough Interface. On the "old" Dell laptop running Windows 11 I see that, but on this Surface Pro 9 Win 11 using either the Acer USB Hub or the Anker USB Adapters I don't. So something in the conversion from USB-A to USB-C is NOT working. Given that I'm going to have to keep an old laptop around in order to program ECU's via Binary Editor and the Mongoose cable - unless someone has a better idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Perfect. So just the Mongoose needs to be dedicated. I’m looking at a Surface Pro 9 tablet and it has two USB-C/Thunderport 4’s, so I can put a USB-C/USB-A converter on one port and a port expander on the other. Thanks! Well, at this point the above doesn't appear to be true. Just spent considerable time on the phone with two different techs at OPUS, the people that make the Mongoose cable, and they cannot get the Mongoose to work through either of my two different USB-C/A converters. The acid test is to connect the Mongoose cable to a vehicle with the key on and to the computer. Then open up Device Manager (right-click the Windows logo) and scroll all the way to the bottom of the list. There at the very bottom you should find Vehicle Passthrough Interface. On the "old" Dell laptop running Windows 11 I see that, but on this Surface Pro 9 Win 11 using either the Acer USB Hub or the Anker USB Adapters I don't. So something in the conversion from USB-A to USB-C is NOT working. Given that I'm going to have to keep an old laptop around in order to program ECU's via Binary Editor and the Mongoose cable - unless someone has a better idea. I have never tried my newer MacBook Pro as it has the Apple CPU and will not run Windows. I have an older MacBook Pro with the Intel CPU and set it up as a dual boot and that's the one I use on Darth and with a program called Forscan to run diagnostics on the Flexes. From what I remember Binary Editor only works in a Windows environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 I have never tried my newer MacBook Pro as it has the Apple CPU and will not run Windows. I have an older MacBook Pro with the Intel CPU and set it up as a dual boot and that's the one I use on Darth and with a program called Forscan to run diagnostics on the Flexes. From what I remember Binary Editor only works in a Windows environment. Yes, BE only runs under Windows. And now with the news that the Mongoose cable doesn't seem to work on USB-C with adapters and most, if not all, new machines come only with USB-C/Thunderbolt-4, they need to rethink things. The tech I drew said "Your Surface Pro wasn't made for automotive diagnostic work." So, are there new computers made for automotive diagnostic work? I had assumed that people just use ordinary laptops? I have a plan that I think will work. Janey has been using an old laptop of mine for her sewing/quilting work, but has been complaining that there's too much software on it and she wants a "clean machine". So this afternoon I found a 2020-era HP desktop with an i5 processor, 16 GB of memory, and 256 GB of SSD for $120. It is running W10, the same as that laptop, and will only have whatever apps we put on it, so will be "clean". And I'll take the old laptop for my Binary Editor computer. But it only has two USB-A ports, so I'll have to be careful when I'm writing to an ECU and ensure the Mongoose cable gets one of those ports. Not ideal, but it will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Yes, BE only runs under Windows. And now with the news that the Mongoose cable doesn't seem to work on USB-C with adapters and most, if not all, new machines come only with USB-C/Thunderbolt-4, they need to rethink things. The tech I drew said "Your Surface Pro wasn't made for automotive diagnostic work." So, are there new computers made for automotive diagnostic work? I had assumed that people just use ordinary laptops? I have a plan that I think will work. Janey has been using an old laptop of mine for her sewing/quilting work, but has been complaining that there's too much software on it and she wants a "clean machine". So this afternoon I found a 2020-era HP desktop with an i5 processor, 16 GB of memory, and 256 GB of SSD for $120. It is running W10, the same as that laptop, and will only have whatever apps we put on it, so will be "clean". And I'll take the old laptop for my Binary Editor computer. But it only has two USB-A ports, so I'll have to be careful when I'm writing to an ECU and ensure the Mongoose cable gets one of those ports. Not ideal, but it will work. I have a 4 port USB 2.0 expander. The switches opposite the ports allow you to turn them on or off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 I have a 4 port USB 2.0 expander. The switches opposite the ports allow you to turn them on or off. I've been doing some reading on this subject and found this article that seems to help. Or this article from Kensington. Part of the problem here is that this tablet doesn't just have USB-C ports. It has USB-C/Thunderbolt 4 ports. That appears to say it has ports that use the USB-C style connector but have Thunderbolt 4 capabilities, like higher power for charging, faster data rates, multiple displays from one connector, and daisy-chaining up to 6 devices on one port. Further, there's backward compatibility. Kensington says: Thunderbolt™ is backwards compatible with USB-C. A Thunderbolt™ port will support any USB-C device by reverting to USB-C mode—and supporting the device to the max of its USB-C capabilities. By contrast, a USB-C port will not support a Thunderbolt device. So, while a Thunderbolt™ host laptop will support Thunderbolt™ and USB-C devices, a USB-C host laptop will only support USB-C devices. It’s also important to mention that a Thunderbolt™ cable is the easiest choice for Thunderbolt™ hosts since it will support both Thunderbolt™ and USB-C devices to their max capabilities. And everything I read says USB-C is fully backward compatible with USB 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0, which are the protocols used in USB-A connectors. But for some reason my Mongoose cable with a USB-A connector plugged into a USB-A to USB-C converter which is plugged into a Thunderbolt 4 port doesn't work. I wonder if a Thunderbolt 4 to USB-A converter would, but everything I'm finding with a brand I recognize is $200+, and I'm not willing to gamble on that since I have a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85lebaront2 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I've been doing some reading on this subject and found this article that seems to help. Or this article from Kensington. Part of the problem here is that this tablet doesn't just have USB-C ports. It has USB-C/Thunderbolt 4 ports. That appears to say it has ports that use the USB-C style connector but have Thunderbolt 4 capabilities, like higher power for charging, faster data rates, multiple displays from one connector, and daisy-chaining up to 6 devices on one port. Further, there's backward compatibility. Kensington says: Thunderbolt™ is backwards compatible with USB-C. A Thunderbolt™ port will support any USB-C device by reverting to USB-C mode—and supporting the device to the max of its USB-C capabilities. By contrast, a USB-C port will not support a Thunderbolt device. So, while a Thunderbolt™ host laptop will support Thunderbolt™ and USB-C devices, a USB-C host laptop will only support USB-C devices. It’s also important to mention that a Thunderbolt™ cable is the easiest choice for Thunderbolt™ hosts since it will support both Thunderbolt™ and USB-C devices to their max capabilities. And everything I read says USB-C is fully backward compatible with USB 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0, which are the protocols used in USB-A connectors. But for some reason my Mongoose cable with a USB-A connector plugged into a USB-A to USB-C converter which is plugged into a Thunderbolt 4 port doesn't work. I wonder if a Thunderbolt 4 to USB-A converter would, but everything I'm finding with a brand I recognize is $200+, and I'm not willing to gamble on that since I have a solution. We went through a bunch of this a few years back when we got newer MacBook Pros. They use Lightning ports. We had to get Lightning to USB adapters for things like a mouse. Hopefully market pressure will force everyone to a mutually cross compatible system. I thought my Mongoose Pro cable was bad, but found a shot of Radio Shack contact cleaner and lubricant fixed the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 We went through a bunch of this a few years back when we got newer MacBook Pros. They use Lightning ports. We had to get Lightning to USB adapters for things like a mouse. Hopefully market pressure will force everyone to a mutually cross compatible system. I thought my Mongoose Pro cable was bad, but found a shot of Radio Shack contact cleaner and lubricant fixed the problem. I'm in over my head. So far I've tried the following in the Acer hub and/or Anker adapter: USB-A thumb drives: Several different ones and they work perfectly. DVD drive: This is also a USB-A device and it worked perfectly installing TurboCAD Brother label printer: This is also a USB-A device and it wouldn't work on this computer as I was not getting the driver installed. I would go through the installation procedure and it said it was installed but to connect the printer and it would be recognized. I connected it and it wasn't recognized. Several times. So I connected it to the old computer and it worked perfectly. Back to the new computer and no workee. Then I realized that I was using a white cable I'd not used before, so I got the old black cable I'd been using and it worked immediately on the new computer. Then I plugged in the white cable and now it works as well. All I can figure is that there is a connection in the old black cable has a connection the new white cable doesn't and the app needed to see that one time, at which point it confirmed the driver installation and all is good. SD Card: The Acer USB-C hub has an SD card reader and it works fine. HDMI: The Acer USB-C hub has an HDMI port and it works perfectly. The image on the TV was every bit as sharp as on the screen on the tablet. Mongoose cable: As said, it doesn't work through either the Acer hub or the Anker converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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