Wisdom of the List Sought- Ignition Modules

[Dyn Blin]

While Gary's sorely missed shindig was going on last week, I was taking my oldest girl up to school in the truck. Ride-wise, it was an uneventful ~1200 mile trip, and even a bit better on gas mileage than I expected despite spinning at almost 3k at 70MPH- Next month's trip to MT will hopefully be better with the 32" tires I plan on mounting before then. It was a bit warmer than expected: I discovered why and will detail in another post.

To the question:

I keep a spare blue-brushing ignition module from the local yard in the tool box behind the seat, thinking if I have a failure, I can swap it and have it running until I can buy a brown-brushing module I *thought* I had.

When I was looking over the engine when I got home, I noted I had 2 strain-relief brushings and 3 connectors coming from the box. Curious, I wiped the crud off the brushings, I noted they were, in fact, yellow.

From what I've found across the forums and a couple print references I have, the yellow brushing boxes were of 2 flavors- either with a lead for altitude compensation and/or 2-step timing retard - is this correct?

If so, any advice on how I figure out which one I have? I figure I can disconnect and look at the timing at start up, and alternatively follow the lead to whatever sensor might signal barometric pressure. Any other ideas? The local Napa guys were stumped when I visited earlier this morning, indicating my CA '82 shouldn't have a yellow at all on a 351W.

Last- would there be any issue swapping a blue-brushing box in it's place short or long term?

Thanks in advance. I feel a little silly not knowing what was in there. With so many other projects going since I picked the truck up last year, I haven't spent enough time looking at what's working.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm pretty sure you can't swap in a box with a blue grommet and get it to run. As I tried to show here (Electrical/Ignition) the box with a yellow grommet is a computer-controlled unit, and the one with a blue grommet has no computer. To convert to the blue box you'd have to disable the computer, and then it probably wouldn't pass CA inspections.

As for finding out what you have, it should have 3 plugs. And, as my page says, one of those should have either 2 or 3 wires to it. But, in looking at the 1981 EVTM I don't see a module with 3 plugs. Do you happen to have the 1982 EVTM? If so, maybe we can figure this out.

Or, perhaps your module has a number on it that will match up to one on the Ignition page?

[85lebaront2]

I'm pretty sure you can't swap in a box with a blue grommet and get it to run. As I tried to show here (Electrical/Ignition) the box with a yellow grommet is a computer-controlled unit, and the one with a blue grommet has no computer. To convert to the blue box you'd have to disable the computer, and then it probably wouldn't pass CA inspections.

As for finding out what you have, it should have 3 plugs. And, as my page says, one of those should have either 2 or 3 wires to it. But, in looking at the 1981 EVTM I don't see a module with 3 plugs. Do you happen to have the 1982 EVTM? If so, maybe we can figure this out.

Or, perhaps your module has a number on it that will match up to one on the Ignition page?

If you look at the EEC pinouts table (which I can never find on here when I want to), the 5.8L came with EEC-III through 1983, probably mostly CA spec. If it did, then you will have a crank sensor and a "locked" distributor with no pickup coil. If you do, you probably also have a feedback carburetor, probably a Motorcraft 7200 VV one which would also explain the pretty good gas mileage, working right they are amazing. I ran a non-feedback one on a 1957 Thunderbird Special 312 in a 1958 F100, with a Borg Warner T85 with OD and a 3.70 rear, 25 mpg highway.

[Gary Lewis]

If you look at the EEC pinouts table (which I can never find on here when I want to), the 5.8L came with EEC-III through 1983, probably mostly CA spec. If it did, then you will have a crank sensor and a "locked" distributor with no pickup coil. If you do, you probably also have a feedback carburetor, probably a Motorcraft 7200 VV one which would also explain the pretty good gas mileage, working right they are amazing. I ran a non-feedback one on a 1957 Thunderbird Special 312 in a 1958 F100, with a Borg Warner T85 with OD and a 3.70 rear, 25 mpg highway.

Bill - I agree about finding the pin-out spreadsheet. It easily took me 10 minutes to find it, and I'm the one that put it there!

It currently is in Fuel Systems/Carburetors, Chokes, & EFI/EFI, and on the Pinouts tab. But, where do you think it should be? Or, maybe better, where ALL do you think links to it should be? We can put it one place and point to it from several others.

Now to Mark/Dyn's truck. If we can find the calibration code we might figure out a few more things about it, including the distributor, carb, and EEC #'s. I've included a calibration parts list for one 1982 truck that might be it. But it probably is a CA-spec truck and, if so, this won't be the right one.

Anyway, maybe Mark can see if the carb, distributor, or EEC unit under the seat have #'s on them?

[85lebaront2]

Bill - I agree about finding the pin-out spreadsheet. It easily took me 10 minutes to find it, and I'm the one that put it there!

It currently is in Fuel Systems/Carburetors, Chokes, & EFI/EFI, and on the Pinouts tab. But, where do you think it should be? Or, maybe better, where ALL do you think links to it should be? We can put it one place and point to it from several others.

Now to Mark/Dyn's truck. If we can find the calibration code we might figure out a few more things about it, including the distributor, carb, and EEC #'s. I've included a calibration parts list for one 1982 truck that might be it. But it probably is a CA-spec truck and, if so, this won't be the right one.

Anyway, maybe Mark can see if the carb, distributor, or EEC unit under the seat have #'s on them?

First, the EEC-III pinouts show two items (a) CKP sensor on pins #2 (GY)and #18 (DB) and and (b) a spark control on pin #17 this an orange with yellow hash. I would assume this probably goes to the yellow grommet DuraSpark box.

Second, it could go maybe under an "engine controls" tab as it covers more than just EFI.

[Dyn Blin]

I'm pretty sure you can't swap in a box with a blue grommet and get it to run. As I tried to show here (Electrical/Ignition) the box with a yellow grommet is a computer-controlled unit, and the one with a blue grommet has no computer. To convert to the blue box you'd have to disable the computer, and then it probably wouldn't pass CA inspections.

As for finding out what you have, it should have 3 plugs. And, as my page says, one of those should have either 2 or 3 wires to it. But, in looking at the 1981 EVTM I don't see a module with 3 plugs. Do you happen to have the 1982 EVTM? If so, maybe we can figure this out.

Or, perhaps your module has a number on it that will match up to one on the Ignition page?

We're on the same wavelength, Gary. I just used up the last of the usable daylight removing the ignition control module and comparing it to the '82 EVTM.

Here are some pics:

#1 shows the ICM as placed on the fender- 3 plugs, with one going to a module on on a bracket towards the firewall.

#2 shows the underside- *one* yellow brushing with 8 wires divided into 3 leads. One lead attached to the module mentioned above.

#3 shows the detail of the wiring colors: Yellow & Black/White stripe go to the module mentioned in #1. Red & White go to the 2 prong connector. The Purple, Orange, Black (Maybe Black w/ Dark Green stripe- more on that below) and Green go to the 4 prong connector.

#4 -Made in USA stamp (no other numbers with the exception of the inspection stamp on the potting on the underside)

The '82 EVTM shows 2 versions. One for CA 302 and 351's (my door sticker codes to Mipitas/San Jose and originally came from the line with a 302) that reflects as "EEC", and another that reflects "Duraspark".

It does not appear to match the (CA 302/351) EEC version- the EVTM shows 5 wires coming from the ICM into 2 connectors: One with 2 wires (Red & White) and one with 3 wires (Orange, Dark Green & Black w/Light Green stripe)

It almost matches the Duraspark version- one connector with 2 wires (Red & White), and one with 4 wires (Orange, Purple, Dark Green and Black w/Light Green). However, there's no reference in the EVTM for the "extra" 2 wires (Yellow and Black w/ White stripe) going to the module on the bracket.

The module on the bracket could well be some type of ambient air pressure sensor- it has a pinhole opening opposite of the potted wires. (Edit- I'm thinking it may be the sensor listed as the last item on the paste you made above, Gary)

I presume when the engine was swapped a Duraspark and appropriate harness were swapped with it. The rest of the emissions package is intact (I had to rebuild it after buying the car using the diagram on the radiator vacuum routing sticker, so that too may have been swapped).

I also noted the wiring from the engine side has quite a bit of cracked insulation at the connectors. I'm thinking I'm going to have to swap connectors (I have enough Weatherpacks around to do the whole engine, and I can find the connectors from your catalogue on the site) but before that, I'll triage with some Permatex liquid electrical tape.

In any case the reference you have on the link seems to best match the E1AZ-12A199-A (given the description of "Yellow with 2-wire 3rd plug").

What I didn't check was to see if the Blue box plugs even matched the 2 connectors on the engine side, even if only for curiosity sake. I'll head back down to Napa with the part number above to see if they can find it.

Bill, The truck came with a 2150 Carb. I have a 7200 VV in the garage I took from the yard because I was curious to learn about it after hearing it works well across the RPM range when adjusted correctly. No plans yet to install it, though.

[85lebaront2]

We're on the same wavelength, Gary. I just used up the last of the usable daylight removing the ignition control module and comparing it to the '82 EVTM.

Here are some pics:

#1 shows the ICM as placed on the fender- 3 plugs, with one going to a module on on a bracket towards the firewall.

#2 shows the underside- *one* yellow brushing with 8 wires divided into 3 leads. One lead attached to the module mentioned above.

#3 shows the detail of the wiring colors: Yellow & Black/White stripe go to the module mentioned in #1. Red & White go to the 2 prong connector. The Purple, Orange, Black (Maybe Black w/ Dark Green stripe- more on that below) and Green go to the 4 prong connector.

#4 -Made in USA stamp (no other numbers with the exception of the inspection stamp on the potting on the underside)

The '82 EVTM shows 2 versions. One for CA 302 and 351's (my door sticker codes to Mipitas/San Jose and originally came from the line with a 302) that reflects as "EEC", and another that reflects "Duraspark".

It does not appear to match the (CA 302/351) EEC version- the EVTM shows 5 wires coming from the ICM into 2 connectors: One with 2 wires (Red & White) and one with 3 wires (Orange, Dark Green & Black w/Light Green stripe)

It almost matches the Duraspark version- one connector with 2 wires (Red & White), and one with 4 wires (Orange, Purple, Dark Green and Black w/Light Green). However, there's no reference in the EVTM for the "extra" 2 wires (Yellow and Black w/ White stripe) going to the module on the bracket.

The module on the bracket could well be some type of ambient air pressure sensor- it has a pinhole opening opposite of the potted wires. (Edit- I'm thinking it may be the sensor listed as the last item on the paste you made above, Gary)

I presume when the engine was swapped a Duraspark and appropriate harness were swapped with it. The rest of the emissions package is intact (I had to rebuild it after buying the car using the diagram on the radiator vacuum routing sticker, so that too may have been swapped).

I also noted the wiring from the engine side has quite a bit of cracked insulation at the connectors. I'm thinking I'm going to have to swap connectors (I have enough Weatherpacks around to do the whole engine, and I can find the connectors from your catalogue on the site) but before that, I'll triage with some Permatex liquid electrical tape.

In any case the reference you have on the link seems to best match the E1AZ-12A199-A (given the description of "Yellow with 2-wire 3rd plug").

What I didn't check was to see if the Blue box plugs even matched the 2 connectors on the engine side, even if only for curiosity sake. I'll head back down to Napa with the part number above to see if they can find it.

Bill, The truck came with a 2150 Carb. I have a 7200 VV in the garage I took from the yard because I was curious to learn about it after hearing it works well across the RPM range when adjusted correctly. No plans yet to install it, though.

Ok, then the question goes back to distributor, is your distributor a normal DS-II one, three wire pigtail with a weatherproof PITA to unplug connector? If it is, is it connected to anything or just dangling on the engine?

Other question, is there a computer under the driver's side of the seat?

Last item, could you scan your 1982 EVTM or send it to Gary so he can scan it to his OCR files and then add it to the site's information files? That would be appreciated by all.

[1986F150Six]

Ok, then the question goes back to distributor, is your distributor a normal DS-II one, three wire pigtail with a weatherproof PITA to unplug connector? If it is, is it connected to anything or just dangling on the engine?

Other question, is there a computer under the driver's side of the seat?

Last item, could you scan your 1982 EVTM or send it to Gary so he can scan it to his OCR files and then add it to the site's information files? That would be appreciated by all.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-IGNITION-CONTROL-MODULE-1-YELLOW-GROMMET-3-HARNESSES-FOR-CARS-74-TO-80S/252365618594?hash=item3ac229bda2:g:af0AAOSwYmZXG8Fz

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-Control-Module-E-TRON-DY-297-Yellow-Grommet/122464342622?fits=Make%3AFord&epid=169498150&hash=item1c8371925e:g:NX8AAOSwqWNY~6f9:sc:USPSPriority!40475!US!-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NORS-80s-FORD-LINCOLN-MERCURY-AMC-IGNITION-CONTROL-MODULE-SINGLE-YELLOW-GROMMET/132369134439?fits=Make%3AFord&hash=item1ed1d0b367:g:BcUAAOSw7z1Z6T5R

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-Control-Module-E-TRON-DY-297-Yellow-Grommet/302770733686?fits=Make%3AFord&epid=169498150&hash=item467e8ac276:g:xXkAAOSweUNbIZa2

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-Module-NORS-Ford-prod-1981-87-Yellow-Gromet-Motorcraft-DY-297/292742291207?epid=210181442&hash=item4428ccdf07:g:a7oAAOSwetBbqRA3

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-CONTROL-MODULE-DURALIFE-DY297-1YELLOW-GROMMET-3-HARNESSES-74TO-THE-80S-NIB/251230301747?hash=item3a7e7e2e33:g:lo4AAMXQgPFRIAje

 

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, then the question goes back to distributor, is your distributor a normal DS-II one, three wire pigtail with a weatherproof PITA to unplug connector? If it is, is it connected to anything or just dangling on the engine?

Other question, is there a computer under the driver's side of the seat?

Last item, could you scan your 1982 EVTM or send it to Gary so he can scan it to his OCR files and then add it to the site's information files? That would be appreciated by all.

Last thing first - please compare your '82 EVTM to my '81 EVTM, and especially on the Start/Ignition pages and probably the Feedback Carb MCU and the Feedback Carb ECU sections. If there are notable differences then I'd really like to get a scan of yours to capture those differences.

I have 1980, '81, '84, '85, & '86 EVTM's, but only the '81 and '86 on the website. So I'm missing 1982 & 3. You said your '82 only has Duraspark (blue grommet) and EEC, which is what the '81 has, and that EEC doesn't match your module. And the '84 only has Duraspark and TFI, and yours certainly isn't TFI. But I wonder if '83 EVTM has an evolution of the EEC that might match your module? Perhaps your engine and ignition system are from an '83? Hmmm, we need to find one of those EVTM's, and with it and yours we'd have the whole Bullnose era covered. (And I'd have a LOT of work to do to get all of that on the website. )

And I agree that the module on the back is the pressure sensor. But did it not have a hose to the intake manifold? If not, then it can't be a manifold pressure sensor. Just barometric. Does it have any numbers on it?

The plot thickens.

[Gary Lewis]

Last thing first - please compare your '82 EVTM to my '81 EVTM, and especially on the Start/Ignition pages and probably the Feedback Carb MCU and the Feedback Carb ECU sections. If there are notable differences then I'd really like to get a scan of yours to capture those differences.

I have 1980, '81, '84, '85, & '86 EVTM's, but only the '81 and '86 on the website. So I'm missing 1982 & 3. You said your '82 only has Duraspark (blue grommet) and EEC, which is what the '81 has, and that EEC doesn't match your module. And the '84 only has Duraspark and TFI, and yours certainly isn't TFI. But I wonder if '83 EVTM has an evolution of the EEC that might match your module? Perhaps your engine and ignition system are from an '83? Hmmm, we need to find one of those EVTM's, and with it and yours we'd have the whole Bullnose era covered. (And I'd have a LOT of work to do to get all of that on the website. )

And I agree that the module on the back is the pressure sensor. But did it not have a hose to the intake manifold? If not, then it can't be a manifold pressure sensor. Just barometric. Does it have any numbers on it?

The plot thickens.

Ok, with David's help I've ordered an '82 and an '83 EVTM. The intent was to find an '83, but he found an '82 for a price that made it seem silly to have Mark ship his and then I'd have to ship it back.

So, when they get in I'll be able to compare the various ignition systems.