Rembrant Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 The sway bar itself does not lift the vehicle. It adds weight, which will lower it slightly (probably imperceptibly). But if you add spacers under the springs to connect the sway bars, those spacers might affect ride height enough to notice. I guess I'll have to just install what I have and see how it sits. I'm installing the coil spring mounts with the sway-bar link attachment points, but I'll be removing my factory non-sway-bar mounts. My concern is that the swaybar mounts I have are a little shorter than my factory mounts, so it will alter my ride height, at least a little bit. I was going to add flat spacers to correct the difference, but if there's any "lift" caused by the swaybar install, then I guess I won't need the spacers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Cecil Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 The sway bar itself does not lift the vehicle. It adds weight, which will lower it slightly (probably imperceptibly). But if you add spacers under the springs to connect the sway bars, those spacers might affect ride height enough to notice. I guess I'll have to just install what I have and see how it sits. I'm installing the coil spring mounts with the sway-bar link attachment points, but I'll be removing my factory non-sway-bar mounts. My concern is that the swaybar mounts I have are a little shorter than my factory mounts, so it will alter my ride height, at least a little bit. I was going to add flat spacers to correct the difference, but if there's any "lift" caused by the swaybar install, then I guess I won't need the spacers. You will certainly see some lift. Don't look at it from a dimensional "stack up" of the springs/brackets. The lift comes from the additional forces created between the sway bar links and the frame rail mount bushings. If you are concerned with the lift, I would use rubber, as it would probably lift less, and it would allow more "give" in the sway bar bushings. I used poly, and those are hard, and no doubt added more lift than the rubber would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Bracket 5486 in the diagram is what I remember placing under the springs.That's the only thing that would affect ride height. The sway bar does not, in any way other than slightly weighing the truck down, regardless of the type of bushings.My concern is that the swaybar mounts I have are a little shorter than my factory mounts, so it will alter my ride height, at least a little bit.I assume Ford would have designed the 2WD non-sway-bar & 2WD with-sway-bar spacers to be the same height. But I know that the 2WD spacer is marked as such, and the 4WD spacer is slightly taller. In any case, just measure before & after. This explains how to measure ride height: https://supermotors.net/getfile/576476/thumbnail/leancheck.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I assume Ford would have designed the 2WD non-sway-bar & 2WD with-sway-bar spacers to be the same height. But I know that the 2WD spacer is marked as such, and the 4WD spacer is slightly taller. There are a lot of variations of those spacers...oh my. I've found many different ones. The sway-bar units I have are from a 4x4 truck, and they are actually shorter than the factory 2wd ones in my truck. There are short ones, and tall ones...I've seen both. I have no idea what dictated the differences, but they seem to vary a lot from truck to truck. (and they vary in height from left to right as well). In any case, my plan is to measure it all and try to return everything to the existing ride height. If I have to add additional spacers to achieve that, I will. Alternatively, if I happen to find a set of the sway-bar spacers the exact same height as mine in the meantime, I will grab them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Cecil Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 Bracket 5486 in the diagram is what I remember placing under the springs.That's the only thing that would affect ride height. The sway bar does not, in any way other than slightly weighing the truck down, regardless of the type of bushings.My concern is that the swaybar mounts I have are a little shorter than my factory mounts, so it will alter my ride height, at least a little bit.I assume Ford would have designed the 2WD non-sway-bar & 2WD with-sway-bar spacers to be the same height. But I know that the 2WD spacer is marked as such, and the 4WD spacer is slightly taller. In any case, just measure before & after. This explains how to measure ride height: https://supermotors.net/getfile/576476/thumbnail/leancheck.jpg Well, not so seem like an a-hole here, but have you ever did the swap yourself? I bought a parts truck 81 f100 that had the 2wd sway bar setup. I did the swap and the ride height was affected. I know you aren't calling me a liar, but dimensional stack-up from the spring pocket in the frame down to the spring mount on the control arm is NOT the only thing that affects ride height. I am not sure exactly how to explain the geometry in words, but I could show you with a diagram how an upward force on the frame can be applied by the sway bar once attaching it to the control arms. I'm not just some crazy person. Although I look like one in the avatar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 ...have you ever did the swap yourself?Yes, several times, in both directions (adding & removing sway bars), on my truck and many others like it.I know you aren't calling me a liar...No, but the TIB/TTB suspension is difficult for most people to understand. Even for many of the pros I've worked with...dimensional stack-up from the spring pocket in the frame down to the spring mount on the control arm is NOT the only thing that affects ride height.Right. Weight (like the weight of the front sway bar) on the spring also affects it. And within the context of the stock TIB/TTB suspension, those are the only 2 things that affect ride height (measured between the frame & suspension). Of course, tires affect overall ride height, and extreme rim offset can, too (due to the change in leverage against the springs).I'm not just some crazy person.Me either. I've done most of these swaps a few times each on my truck; several more times on other people's vehicles; and I was an ASE pro for several years at several dealerships & independent shops. Here's a quick easy test: measure your truck's ride height as that previous diagram shows (which stipulates flat ground). Then pull the front sway bar end link bolts, and measure again. It will be the same. The proof is that there's no vertical load on those bolts when you try to pull them out and the bar doesn't move away from the bolt hole, so the bar isn't holding the truck up at all. Also, the fact that the sway bar & end link mounts don't support any torque (they pivot with the suspension) proves they can't support any weight. The sway bar will swing down just from gravity when you unbolt the 2nd end link (assuming its bushings are lubed properly). Then try to lift the truck by pushing up on the sway bar bolts where the end links attach - it's impossible, until the bar is in a position not possible when it's attached. So the end links can't raise the truck, either. The only thing an anti-sway bar does is resist a difference in ride height from side-to-side (aka: sway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Cecil Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 ...have you ever did the swap yourself?Yes, several times, in both directions (adding & removing sway bars), on my truck and many others like it.I know you aren't calling me a liar...No, but the TIB/TTB suspension is difficult for most people to understand. Even for many of the pros I've worked with...dimensional stack-up from the spring pocket in the frame down to the spring mount on the control arm is NOT the only thing that affects ride height.Right. Weight (like the weight of the front sway bar) on the spring also affects it. And within the context of the stock TIB/TTB suspension, those are the only 2 things that affect ride height (measured between the frame & suspension). Of course, tires affect overall ride height, and extreme rim offset can, too (due to the change in leverage against the springs).I'm not just some crazy person.Me either. I've done most of these swaps a few times each on my truck; several more times on other people's vehicles; and I was an ASE pro for several years at several dealerships & independent shops. Here's a quick easy test: measure your truck's ride height as that previous diagram shows (which stipulates flat ground). Then pull the front sway bar end link bolts, and measure again. It will be the same. The proof is that there's no vertical load on those bolts when you try to pull them out and the bar doesn't move away from the bolt hole, so the bar isn't holding the truck up at all. Also, the fact that the sway bar & end link mounts don't support any torque (they pivot with the suspension) proves they can't support any weight. The sway bar will swing down just from gravity when you unbolt the 2nd end link (assuming its bushings are lubed properly). Then try to lift the truck by pushing up on the sway bar bolts where the end links attach - it's impossible, until the bar is in a position not possible when it's attached. So the end links can't raise the truck, either. The only thing an anti-sway bar does is resist a difference in ride height from side-to-side (aka: sway). Well, I guess my 86 just jumped up for no reason, and it happened to correspond to me installing a sway bar....I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts