Ferdinand Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 The Great Mystery Is Solved! I have been chasing a timing/fuel/vacuum problem now for more than two months until just tonight I finally discovered the problem… FIRING ORDER (Seriously, firing order... one of the things I checked 20 times AT LEAST!) I have nearly memorized the 5.8L firing order from Ford, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8. What I did not know is that it is possible to have a cam installed that would revert you back to the 5.0L V8, firing order 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Wyatt Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 The Great Mystery Is Solved! I have been chasing a timing/fuel/vacuum problem now for more than two months until just tonight I finally discovered the problem… FIRING ORDER (Seriously, firing order... one of the things I checked 20 times AT LEAST!) I have nearly memorized the 5.8L firing order from Ford, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8. What I did not know is that it is possible to have a cam installed that would revert you back to the 5.0L V8, firing order 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8. I started noticing that the firing order for cams are printed on the box or in the paperwork they come with but I had an engine shop build mine and the box they gave me that the cam came in did not have any firing order listed anywhere on it. Out of sheer desperation and grasping at straws thinking my problem could be anything from a distributor 180 degrees out all the way to having washed out my cam during break-in, I did a Google search on what the firing order for my cam would be and there it was… The proper firing order for the cam that was installed was indeed the firing order for the 5.0L and NOT the 5.8L! Then it all started falling into place. Even the cylinder temps that were indicative of a potentially washed cam started taking on new meaning: Cylinder Temps taken at the header tubes: 1-709, 2-590, 3-190, 4-131 5-152, 6-650, 7-194, 8-505 When you consider there are 4 cylinders that are different between the two firing orders: 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8 Hence, 1,2,6,8 are the same and 3,4,5,7 are different, this corresponds to the cylinders that were very low temperature wise. Once I realized the potenetial fix, I couldn’t stay in my seat. The Bronco has only open headers and I live very close to my neighbors. Not to mention, my sleeping family in the house (it was nearly 11:00 "on a school night"). I couln’t help it… I HAD TO GO TRY IT. Sure enough the thing jumped to life at the bump of the key, ran like a dream, took the throttle stabs, and even stayed smooth and even once in gear! I am utterly amazed the engine ran as smooth as it did with 4 cylinders out of sequence! Many have said the firing order was the issue. So, to all those folks, thank you!! I would have never guessed that the firing order would have been different than that which was referenced. Now to get Ferdinand’s front clip on and finish this!! I'm glad to see you got it figured out finally. I thought it had to be something small that was getting over looked. I was thinking timing, and I guess in a way it was, albeit by the timing order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpin Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 The Great Mystery Is Solved! I have been chasing a timing/fuel/vacuum problem now for more than two months until just tonight I finally discovered the problem… FIRING ORDER (Seriously, firing order... one of the things I checked 20 times AT LEAST!) I have nearly memorized the 5.8L firing order from Ford, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8. What I did not know is that it is possible to have a cam installed that would revert you back to the 5.0L V8, firing order 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8. I started noticing that the firing order for cams are printed on the box or in the paperwork they come with but I had an engine shop build mine and the box they gave me that the cam came in did not have any firing order listed anywhere on it. Out of sheer desperation and grasping at straws thinking my problem could be anything from a distributor 180 degrees out all the way to having washed out my cam during break-in, I did a Google search on what the firing order for my cam would be and there it was… The proper firing order for the cam that was installed was indeed the firing order for the 5.0L and NOT the 5.8L! Then it all started falling into place. Even the cylinder temps that were indicative of a potentially washed cam started taking on new meaning: Cylinder Temps taken at the header tubes: 1-709, 2-590, 3-190, 4-131 5-152, 6-650, 7-194, 8-505 When you consider there are 4 cylinders that are different between the two firing orders: 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8 Hence, 1,2,6,8 are the same and 3,4,5,7 are different, this corresponds to the cylinders that were very low temperature wise. Once I realized the potenetial fix, I couldn’t stay in my seat. The Bronco has only open headers and I live very close to my neighbors. Not to mention, my sleeping family in the house (it was nearly 11:00 "on a school night"). I couln’t help it… I HAD TO GO TRY IT. Sure enough the thing jumped to life at the bump of the key, ran like a dream, took the throttle stabs, and even stayed smooth and even once in gear! I am utterly amazed the engine ran as smooth as it did with 4 cylinders out of sequence! Many have said the firing order was the issue. So, to all those folks, thank you!! I would have never guessed that the firing order would have been different than that which was referenced. Now to get Ferdinand’s front clip on and finish this!! Congrats! And good job sticking with it and researching and finding the cause. I have not heard of this happening before as far as I remember. (But, my rememberer ain't too good!) Not my Bronco and I almost got up and did a happy dance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rembrant Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I have nearly memorized the 5.8L firing order from Ford, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8. What I did not know is that it is possible to have a cam installed that would revert you back to the 5.0L V8, firing order 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8. In the 302 world, this topic comes up all the time, especially with people buying used engines. When I suggested the other night that you might have a cam issue, I thought briefly...I wonder if this thing has a 302 cam in it?...lol. Anyway, the thought came and went... When I was shopping for a cam for my 302 last year, I noticed that some of them (Lunati comes to mind) only offer certain performance grinds in the 351 firing order. In any case, I'm happy to hear that you've got that part sorted out. Now you can move on to dialing the thing in even further. PS: Ferdinand, a tip of the hat to you for holding on to the reins all this time. A lesser man would have thrown in the hat long ago. You're tough as nails. PSS: It would have also been nice of the engine shop to maybe tie a tag to the engine indicating it had the 302 firing order...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Lewis Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 The Great Mystery Is Solved! I have been chasing a timing/fuel/vacuum problem now for more than two months until just tonight I finally discovered the problem… FIRING ORDER (Seriously, firing order... one of the things I checked 20 times AT LEAST!) I have nearly memorized the 5.8L firing order from Ford, 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8. What I did not know is that it is possible to have a cam installed that would revert you back to the 5.0L V8, firing order 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8. I started noticing that the firing order for cams are printed on the box or in the paperwork they come with but I had an engine shop build mine and the box they gave me that the cam came in did not have any firing order listed anywhere on it. Out of sheer desperation and grasping at straws thinking my problem could be anything from a distributor 180 degrees out all the way to having washed out my cam during break-in, I did a Google search on what the firing order for my cam would be and there it was… The proper firing order for the cam that was installed was indeed the firing order for the 5.0L and NOT the 5.8L! Then it all started falling into place. Even the cylinder temps that were indicative of a potentially washed cam started taking on new meaning: Cylinder Temps taken at the header tubes: 1-709, 2-590, 3-190, 4-131 5-152, 6-650, 7-194, 8-505 When you consider there are 4 cylinders that are different between the two firing orders: 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8 1,5,4,2,6,3,7,8 Hence, 1,2,6,8 are the same and 3,4,5,7 are different, this corresponds to the cylinders that were very low temperature wise. Once I realized the potenetial fix, I couldn’t stay in my seat. The Bronco has only open headers and I live very close to my neighbors. Not to mention, my sleeping family in the house (it was nearly 11:00 "on a school night"). I couln’t help it… I HAD TO GO TRY IT. Sure enough the thing jumped to life at the bump of the key, ran like a dream, took the throttle stabs, and even stayed smooth and even once in gear! I am utterly amazed the engine ran as smooth as it did with 4 cylinders out of sequence! Many have said the firing order was the issue. So, to all those folks, thank you!! I would have never guessed that the firing order would have been different than that which was referenced. Now to get Ferdinand’s front clip on and finish this!! Yippee!!!! Glad you hung in there, and glad you finally solved it. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 I'm glad to see you got it figured out finally. I thought it had to be something small that was getting over looked. I was thinking timing, and I guess in a way it was, albeit by the timing order. Thanks White Knight, Yes, I was sure it was something right under my nose. What a sense of relief... I am still smiling over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Congrats! And good job sticking with it and researching and finding the cause. I have not heard of this happening before as far as I remember. (But, my rememberer ain't too good!) Not my Bronco and I almost got up and did a happy dance! Grumpin, Thanks for sharing in the victory! I was seriously dancing around in the garage last night!!! What a weight lifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve83 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Grumpin, Thanks for sharing in the victory! I was seriously dancing around in the garage last night!!! What a weight lifted. If the intake manifold has the firing order debossed on it, I'd grind it off. Either way, I'd find a way to permanently record the correct firing order somewhere in the engine bay; maybe a label on the distributor cap, or engraved on the intake, or a Ford early 5.0L firing order sticker... https://supermotors.net/getfile/72380/thumbnail/plugwires50l.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/470415/thumbnail/sparkwireroute8793_5l.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Yippee!!!! Glad you hung in there, and glad you finally solved it. Well done! Gary I am sure you can only imagine how much I looked like that little guy jumping up and down when I finally connected the dots and got her to fire up so smooth!!! Rom 12:15a Rejoice with them that do rejoice, -thanks for everything brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 If the intake manifold has the firing order debossed on it, I'd grind it off. Either way, I'd find a way to permanently record the correct firing order somewhere in the engine bay; maybe a label on the distributor cap, or engraved on the intake, or a Ford early 5.0L firing order sticker... https://supermotors.net/getfile/72380/thumbnail/plugwires50l.jpg https://supermotors.net/getfile/470415/thumbnail/sparkwireroute8793_5l.jpg Great idea Steve! I sure would like to save someone else the hassle going forward!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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